The Beginner's Guide To Lucha Libre

[NintendoLogic]

This thread being bumped reminds me of a question I had about the Chicana/Aguayo match. I'm assuming it was an EMLL match since it took place in Arena Mexico. But wasn't Aguayo working for the UWA at the time? How did talent sharing work back then?

[cpst]

There's one thing I've never really understood correctly and found to be a bit cartoonish. Why are wrestlers identified as rudo or tecnico so explicitly in lucha? Even though it's usually completely obvious in American wrestling, we wouldn't see wrestlers actually introduced as good or evil.

[Poneglyph]

The face/heel distinction in American wrestling is about morality, about good and evil as you say. They are also inside terms about the expected outcome of the worker's actions based on that morality, so a face is someone that does specific things that will get him cheered. It wouldn't make any sense for these inner workings to be brought to the surface unless you wanted to avoid suspension of disbelief - or unless you're Dolph Ziggler. What you do have in American wrestling are terms like brawler or highflyer by which wrestlers are openly identified.

 

In Mexican wrestling, técnico/rudo is closer to that. It's a choice of style - or in some cases, an imposition of style - so it's used because it isn't always related to the moral of the characters. Almost any Rush feud would be a good example of someone who is technically a técnico being the villain of the story while a rudo like Negro Casas was the face in their feud, or Shocker switching sides to be able to fight him was see as a heroic move. Of course there's some kind of moral implicit in the choice of style since it's the choice between winning cleanly by mastering the technical aspects of wrestling and using the shortcuts of brawling and cheating, but then again there's this popular saying in Mexico that says "el que no transa no avanza". It would roughly translate to "you can't advance without cheating" so you can see why some people would sympathize with the rudos.

[NintendoLogic]

But Rush is where all that breaks down. He wrestles like a heel and is clearly positioned as the heel in his feuds yet is classified as a tecnico. It reflects neither his in-ring style nor his moral alignment.

[Poneglyph]

But that's actually one of Rush's biggests transgressions. You could say that someone like Negro Casas is playing fairly because he will openly call himself a rudo, so he is telling everyone beforehand that he will brawl, take shortcuts, cheat, etc. That's his style of choice and his rivals know that. On the other hand, Rush refuses to be called a rudo or be booked as one. He may say in promos that he is beyong the rudo/técnico distinction, but the truth is that being booked as a técnico and not wrestling like one gives him an advantage. And CMLL allows that, which fuels the nepotism accusations against him.

[Matt D]

But that's actually one of Rush's biggests transgressions. You could say that someone like Negro Casas is playing fairly because he will openly call himself a rudo, so he is telling everyone beforehand that he will brawl, take shortcuts, cheat, etc. That's his style of choice and his rivals know that. On the other hand, Rush refuses to be called a rudo or be booked as one. He may say in promos that he is beyong the rudo/técnico distinction, but the truth is that being booked as a técnico and not wrestling like one gives him an advantage. And CMLL allows that, which fuels the nepotism accusations against him.

 

The meta-story in my head is that as the tecnico fans left in droves after Mistico I left and after WWE sort of showed him (and therefore his peers) to be hugely unimportant in the grand scheme of things, the remaining rudo-favoring crowd turned on many of the younger remaining tecnicos. In that regard, the resentment that drove Rush and the other Ingobernables was the CMLL crowds creating their own monster, one who felt that they should be cheered and revered, that they deserved to be like their predecessors over the years, but that weren't. One of my favorite parts of their act was the teasing, in title matches, a couple of minutes of adhering to tradition cleanly (like you would still often get from other actual rudos), only to start a beatdown early in the primera.

[elliott]

What would yall consider to be the 10 "biggest" matches in the history of Lucha and why?

 

Santo vs Black Shadow Mask vs Mask 11/7/52

Santo vs Blue Demon 9/27/53 NWA Welterweight TItle

Wagner vs Solitario 12/1/85

Rayo vs Cien Caras 9/21/90

 

What else? Would something like El Santo & Henry Pilusso vs Espanto I & II 7/5/62 make it for "importance?" (This was Santo's first match as a tecnico).

 

What about Atlantis vs Villano III?

 

What am I missing? What are the super obvious Hogan vs Andre level picks?

 

Edit:

 

Of course I asked for the whys and then listed matches and didn't give my why's. Because I don't feel I know enough about lucha history to answer this properly. I feel like I could come up with decent enough lists for US & Japan but I'm just not there with Lucha. I listed the two Santo matches because they're described as two of the biggest matches in lucha history. I don't know what they drew or anything like that but those are the two matches you see. The Santo tag just feels like something that would be big because its Santo's first match as a tecnico. Wagner vs Solitario we've already got OJ's great write up about that. Rayo & Cien gets listed because it broke Arena Mexico. I mentioned Atlantis vs Villano III because well, I watched that show tonight and it was the reason I posed the question. I know it as an all time classic and obviously a major deal. It feels like its the most important match since Wagner vs Solitario and up through today. Would that be a fair assessment? Would that guarantee it a spot in a "10 biggest lucha matches" list?

 

And again, what am I missing?

[ohtani's jacket]

Off the top of my head, I think you would have to consider Medico Asesino vs. Gardenia Davis from 1952 because of the crowd it drew at Plaza de Toro (45,000+) And Cien Caras vs. Konnan from Triplemania I, which still holds the record for the biggest crowd in lucha history. I'm not sure how famous either of those matches are, though.

[Sean Liska]

I believe Atlantis-Ultimo Guerrero from two years ago holds the lucha gate record so that needs to be included.

[ohtani's jacket]

Yeah, that was a $1 million gate.

[elliott]

What about El Santo's last match? Santo, Gori Guerrero, Solitario & Huracan Ramirez vs Perro and the Death Missionaries? Any other Perro matches to consider or El Canek? I feel like Santo Jr vs Negro Casas matches wouldn't quite rate in a discussion like this but I figured i'd ask. It feels more like flair vs steamer: highly regarded artistically but not as important as we'd assume or like to believe.