Would John Cena make your personal top 100?

[Matt D]

I agree with this 100%. I could start my list with Jerry Lawler being number one but after that I don't even know who I would pick as number two.

[goc]

You couldn't find a better picture of Dundee?

[Matt D]

Oh I think that's exactly the picture I wanted to answer your question.

[rzombie1988]

I can't even imagine ranking Christian or Matt Hardy over John Cena, and I like both those guys. Neither of them could have come close to having as good a run as the top guy as Cena did from 06 until his injury in 07. Neither of them could have had as good a match with guys like Umaga, Khali or Lashley.

I think Christian's 2009-2011 face run is one of the best babyface runs in company history. He was the best worker in the company. Cena's best doesn't really come close.

 

I'd totally agree.

 

Also, Hardy's smackdown run in 2006 was awesome. He had a nice series with Helms and had all kinds of good stuff with Finlay and MVP. I'll take Hardy anyday.

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

I can't even imagine ranking Christian or Matt Hardy over John Cena, and I like both those guys. Neither of them could have come close to having as good a run as the top guy as Cena did from 06 until his injury in 07. Neither of them could have had as good a match with guys like Umaga, Khali or Lashley.

I don't really think that comparisons like this are fair. For a start, it suggests that having a good run as the top guy is the most difficult thing to accomplish in wrestling, and I don't know if I agree with that. When you're working at the top, you have a lot of advantages that other guys don't really have. It's worth bringing up as a plus for Cena, but at the same time, it shouldn't really be held against other guys.

 

More broadly, these kind of comparisons are always something you can flip around and manipulate to fit your point. For example, Cena has never had a 3 or so year period of good-great matches the way that Hardy or Christian did. Hasn't really come close, to be honest. To be fair, not many can achieve that level of consistency.

 

Furthermore, having a good match with Umaga is hardly surprising, since Umaga was really good. Other people have managed to work around Khali's limitations. Sheamus had the best Khali match I've ever seen. Batista and Triple H both had good matches with him. Lashley, eh, he was getting better. I don't see it as wildly controversial to suggest that any number of guys would have been able to work some good stuff with him.

 

 

- Re: execution. I'll never say it's the most important thing in the world, but surely it's a fairly crucial skill when we're looking to break down a guy's ability. I don't get giving him a pass for the STF because he 'must know how to apply it properly'. It seems like we're making excuses for him that we wouldn't neccessarily for other guys. Do we give Punk a pass for his shitty flying elbowdrop, because he's obviously seen it done hundreds of times and knows how it should look? I don't think his motives for applying the hold like that should really matter anyway. Owen Hart might have been one of the all time greats if he had been more passionate about wrestling. He wasn't, so he isn't, and that's how it should be. I don't see how that differs from 'Cena would have a great-looking STF if he didn't think it was funny to apply it like someone trying to massage a large pill down the throat of a dog'.

 

I agree in theory with the idea that everything in wrestling is symbolic, but following that to its logical conclusion, what exactly are we supposed to be looking for when determining what works and what doesn't? Does contact even matter at all then? If someone whiffs on a dropkick, but the other person bumps for it (hi, Eve Torres), what do we make of that? Can we also take the symbolism theory to selling? I didn't need the commentary to know that Brock Lesnar had severely injured Shawn Michaels' arm on Monday. Shawn's writhing around, as embarrassing as it was, made that abundantly clear. It was shitty, but it got the point across. To what degree it this more damaging than shitty execution?