French catch

[ohtani's jacket]

The decline is noticeable in the footage itself. The average bout from the late 60s pales in comparison to the late 50s with regard to just about everything from the quality of the work to the overall atmosphere and level of crowd engagement. I don't think France was unique in this regard. I think you can drew parallels to the US and the state of wrestling in the 60s compared to the 50s. In both cases, wrestling was a huge draw during the early years of television but gradually faded. Japan was a little different because it took longer for post-war to recover and televisions weren't widely owned until the 1960s. They also benefitted from two next-generation superstars in Baba and Inoki. A deeper dive into the topic would look into what replaced catch as popular TV programming. I'm not sure what happened with US television, and I know next to zero about French TV. I'm simply assuming that catch gave way to something else the way that wrestling did in Japan. 

[Phil Lions]

I'm no expert on French TV either, but I believe the decline of catch coincided with the rise of football (soccer) and some other sports. Because catch was easy and cheap to broadcast, it was adopted by television relatively early on while sports such as football were more difficult/expensive to air so they didn't become a regular fixture on French TV until the 1960s-1970s, and by the 1980s football was without question the most popular sport in the country. And this actually ties with another factor that I'm far from an expert on, but I believe it too played a role in the decline of catch. In the 1960s French society was changing, resulting in the large-scale May 1968 protests and strikes. One aspect of these societal changes was that the so-called "cult of the strong man" was going away. In other words, the views toward masculinity were changing and the traditional male values (strength, toughness, competitiveness, etc.) were no longer valued as much. Boxing, which used to be one of the most popular sports in France for decades, had a big dip in its popularity in the 1960s and especially in the 1970s, and I don't think it's recovered since. I've seen a number of mentions that the societal changes that were taking place back then, particularly the views toward masculinity, had a big hand in boxing's loss of popularity. I would imagine these societal changes impacted catch in a similar way as boxing.

Also, talking about there not being that many televisions, you reminded me to mention these interesting stats that I found. As of January 31, 1958, there were only about 700,000 registered television sets in France (and I'm guessing there were also a number of unregistered ones too). As of December 31, 1960, the number of registered TV sets was up to about 2 million, which comparatively speaking was a big rise and I've actually seen a couple of mentions that partially credited catch for this rise. Overall though with RTF being around since 1949 and France having a population of about 45 million people, that's definitely a slow TV penetration rate. For sure slower than the US or the UK. That said, it should be pointed out that back then watching TV had a social aspect to it as not only would the whole family gather together to watch TV, but neighbors or friends might come over as well to watch certain shows, if they didn't have a TV of their own. Some bars and pubs also had TVs and people would go there to watch (and catch being on TV was a strong draw for the pub/bar owners back then). So, despite there being only 2 million registered TV sets, the potential viewing audience was larger than what that number suggests at first glance.

[El-P]

36 minutes ago, Phil Lions said:

 In the 1960s French society was changing, resulting in the large-scale May 1968 protests and strikes. One aspect of these societal changes was that the so-called "cult of the strong man" was going away. In other words, the views toward masculinity were changing and the traditional male values (strength, toughness, competitiveness, etc.) were no longer valued as much. 

I really wouldn't go that far. There is a before/after 68, but to say traditional masculinity was challenged in mainstream culture to this extent, not really. There had been changes thanks to the wave of feminist movement that went alongside 68, but I don't think it shook society that much on the regard of pop culture. Alain Delon and Jean-Paul Belmondo's movies were still super popular in the 70's.

However, as far as society as a whole, and especially in term of media, there is quite a difference between the 60's and the 70's, and mostly after 1974 when Giscard d'Estaing became president. As absurd as it may seem now, Giscard's vision was one of a modernized country. He's the one who killed off the old ORTF system which had been very much a vestige of the old pompidolian France which was seen as so boring, hasbeen and passé by then. The catch culture on TV was very much a product of the post-war De Gaulle/Pompidou era. Giscard was much younger, he was much more progressive on social issues (although still a man from the right, but not the same as the previous generation) and France changed quite a bit in the second half of the 70's. 

[Phil Lions]

28 minutes ago, El-P said:

I really wouldn't go that far. There is a before/after 68, but to say traditional masculinity was challenged in mainstream culture to this extent, not really. There had been changes thanks to the wave of feminist movement that went alongside 68, but I don't think it shook society that much on the regard of pop culture. Alain Delon and Jean-Paul Belmondo's movies were still super popular in the 70's.

However, as far as society as a whole, and especially in term of media, there is quite a difference between the 60's and the 70's, and mostly after 1974 when Giscard d'Estaing became president. As absurd as it may seem now, Giscard's vision was one of a modernized country. He's the one who killed off the old ORTF system which had been very much a vestige of the old pompidolian France which was seen as so boring, hasbeen and passé by then. The catch culture on TV was very much a product of the post-war De Gaulle/Pompidou era. Giscard was much younger, he was much more progressive on social issues (although still a man from the right, but not the same as the previous generation) and France changed quite a bit in the second half of the 70's. 

You would know better than I would. Thank you for sharing this context.

All I can say is that I've seen several articles pointing to "the cult of the strong man", as they would put it, fading away as one of the main reasons for boxing's decline in the 1960s and 1970s. So that's what I was basing my writing above on. Not my area of expertise so I can't say how correct it is, but I have come across this claim several times.

[El-P]

10 minutes ago, Phil Lions said:

All I can say is that I've seen several articles pointing to "the cult of the strong man", as they would put it, fading away as one of the main reasons for boxing's decline in the 1960s and 1970s. So that's what I was basing my writing above on. Not my area of expertise so I can't say how correct it is, but I have come across this claim several times.

I'm sure it did play a role. Things were never the same after 68, and feminism played a part in it, although there was still a long way to go.

[David Mantell]

12 hours ago, ohtani's jacket said:

I don't think France was unique in this regard. I think you can drew parallels to the US and the state of wrestling in the 60s compared to the 50s. In both cases, wrestling was a huge draw during the early years of television but gradually faded.

In America's case any decline was a lot more sudden. The bursting of the TV Wrestling Boom bubble, particularly the closure of DuMont, was more of a cliff edge moment in American Wrestling history, comparable to what The Final Bell in the UK could have been if not for (1) All Star being a red hot promotion that just carried on under its own sheer momentum for the next five years (2) an American Wrestling boom starting mere weeks later that by 1992 resulted in a rerun of WM3 on British soil. By 1973 Joe Jares, commencing work on Whatever Happened To Gorgeous George? found himself asked by friends and colleagues who remembered their wrestling-brssoted late grandmothers, "Do they still have wrestling?"

From what I've read about American TV wrestling 1945-1955 it sounds a lot closer to the British/French model of serious sports coverage of all the big matchups rather than the later American model of it all being one big commercial for the live product.

[PeteF3]

The '50s U.S. footage is almost all (partially) televised house shows, similar to catch (it seems World of Sport/JP could be afford to be a bit more choosy in what aired from where, whereas the U.S. shows just showed whatever was happening at the Olympic Auditorium or Marigold Arena in Chicago that week, depending on the network). The rise of "studio wrestling" was pretty much post-national-TV boom and that's where what we perceive as the modern territorial TV format began.

(Of course, even within that there were exceptions--Portland and Dallas continued with the same televised-house-show format for their almost their entire existence).

[David Mantell]

On 3/23/2020 at 1:02 PM, ohtani's jacket said:

Janos Vadkerti vs. Roland Daumal (aired 10/13/60)

This was a nice little match from when men were men and catcheurs were catcheurs. I think Vadkerti was a Hungarian wrestler

Modesto Aledo vs. Teddy Boy (aired 10/13/60)

Modesto Aledo is another Spanish guy with a huge rep, and man was he good. I honestly thought I'd uncovered one of the all-time greats while he in control of the bout. Then Teddy Boy took over and it became a showcase for him. To Aledo's credit, Teddy Boy repeatedly suplexed him over the top rope and onto the floor, which was ballsy stuff. Aledo had a fiery comeback, and I thought we were back on the Aledo train, but Teddy Boy got the "w." Apparently, Aledo jobbed a lot in Britain as well. I swear he looked incredible, though. 

 

Janos Vs Roland is very much down on the match when we join with Roland maintaining a Frank Gotch toehold against reversal/ counter attempts by Janos.  Janos eventually springs free and administers his own headscissors but Roland easily snaps out. . They go for finger interlock and Janos fires a dropkick and Roland retorts with a Manchette .  Roland gets a fantastic Scisseaux Volees into kneeling press but somehow can't get even a 1 count for it and Janos takes him down with a bodyscissors.  Dumal gets a legspread held in place with a bridge. Vadkerti  unhooks his spread legs but then can't break the bridge so they rest.  Another interlock and Dumal gets the armbar and twists it into a figure four top wristlock. Vadkerti goes down with it and slaps on a headscissor. Dumal twists out an d they go into Planchette Japonaise interchange sequence. Vadkerti gets a bodyscissors and there is a lot of interchange over it. Dumal gets a headscissors on Vadkerti....It goes on like that. Holds worked over for long periods of time, the odd flurry of Manchettes. Vadkerti wibs with a folding press.

Aledo is still a Bon and not yet a Kamikaze. Teddy Boy is nothing of the sort. He is a Rocker/Greaser. He does not have an Edwardian Drapes suit or a DA quiff. What he is is quite the thought young brawler. Aledo is the more scientific but Teddy Boy is not the ideal opponent against whom to demonstrate this.  Aledo does do a few of his future Kamikaze rope tricks. For most of the match Aledo takes control until near the end when Teddy Boy uses some lutte Irreguliere to pitch Aledo twice out of the ring.  Aledo gets Irreguliere right back in Teddy's face along with the odd clean tick (the scoot forwards through the legs into ground dropkick). But in the end, Teddy gives Aledo a Warrior style press slam drop and splash to get the upset win. 

[Phil Lions]

On 4/23/2025 at 9:23 AM, Phil Lions said:

By the way, a bunch of people talked about this issue. It wasn't just Delaporte. It was an issue even at the peak of French catch. For example, here's a quote by Maurice Durand from April 1961, right after catch had been taken off TV:

Question: So you are in favor of completely eliminating catch from TV?
Maurice Durand: No, I just think that we shouldn't overdo it, and that we should be careful about the quality of the show. One session per month would seem perfect to me. When catch was shown every week, it was catastrophic for the catch organizers in the provinces. The announcement of televised catch demolishes the other sessions, which barely attract half-full audiences...

And that's a big reason why when catch returned to TV later in the year it was with a more reduced schedule.

And now here's another promoter saying the same thing as Delaporte and Durand. Today's discovery. Promoter Alex Goldstein talking about, among other things, the adverse effect catch being on television had had on the live gates in the provinces. This is from April 1961, right before catch was about to be pulled from TV by Raymond Janot (the general director of RTF).

- Interviewer: Do the catch organizers want catch to continue to be televised?
- Alex Goldstein: I'll give you my personal opinion. I think that television has done considerable harm to my show, while catch did a lot for TV. Catch sold a large number of receivers. That provided work for the workers who make the sets! But if tomorrow, in the current state of affairs, catch matches were banned from television, I would shout: "Bravo, Mr. Janot! Keep your paltry little fees, I'm going to have many more customers in my theaters!"
- Interviewer: So the influence of televised catch on your revenue is so great?
- Goldstein: It is very great, and sometimes catastrophic in the provinces. You know that there can be six or seven catch shows organized in the provinces on the same evening. Now, if that evening L'Ange Blanc, for example, is on television, half the people will stay at home in front of the screen! So, you understand that the organizers are right to complain.
- Interviewer: So you think that television doesn't pay you enough, in relation to the loss of customers suffered?
- Goldstein: We receive a ridiculous fee: 200,000 francs for two-person catch, 225,000 to 250,000 francs for four-person catch. While our show reaches several million people! If each viewer who likes catch gave us just 50 francs, admit it wouldn't be much, the viewer would surely agree, and our accounts would be fine!
- Interviewer: So you no longer want to work with TV?
- Goldstein: I think the question is to be reviewed with the launch of the second channel. But in any case, the number one problem to be resolved are the financial conditions.
- Interviewer: In your opinion, how often should television broadcasts be?
- Goldstein: This question is linked to the previous one. To be reviewed, depending on the conditions.
- Interviewer: We know that the majority of viewers demand catch. But you tell us that televised public meetings take away from your audience. Wouldn't it be possible, and would it be a way to satisfy everyone, if catch matches are staged in a studio, exclusively for the small screen?
- Goldstein: No, I answer absolutely no! Wrestlers need the atmosphere of the room, the reactions of the audience. If you deprive them of that, the quality of the matches will suffer. They are like theater or music hall artists! They need contact with the spectators. The more atmosphere, the better!

And on that final topic of studio wrestling, there was actually a one-off studio match that aired in 1966: Vassilios Mantopoulos & Ischa Israel vs. Billy Catanzaro & Gilbert Lemagourou with the popular music star Johnny Hallyday as guest commentator. It aired as part of the popular weekend show "Télé Dimanche" and was broadcast from the show's studio. Overall though the French promoters themselves were always against the idea of studio wrestling so that's why French catch never went that route.

[David Mantell]

On 5/9/2025 at 10:30 AM, ohtani's jacket said:

 the quality of the work

Looking at those last two bouts, a lot of the distinctive French Catch style and tropes had not yet been developed. Roland Vs Janos was pure German wrestling pre Steve Wright, down on the mat with a lot of earnest manoeuvring before a counter is gained.   Nobody yet is doing back somersaults from top wristlock s, headscissor takedown as counter to armbars, reverse snapmares to counter standing back hammerlocks.  All that came about later with Le Petit Prince, Michel Saulnier, Vasilous Mantopolous etc.