French catch

[ohtani's jacket]

The decline is noticeable in the footage itself. The average bout from the late 60s pales in comparison to the late 50s with regard to just about everything from the quality of the work to the overall atmosphere and level of crowd engagement. I don't think France was unique in this regard. I think you can drew parallels to the US and the state of wrestling in the 60s compared to the 50s. In both cases, wrestling was a huge draw during the early years of television but gradually faded. Japan was a little different because it took longer for post-war to recover and televisions weren't widely owned until the 1960s. They also benefitted from two next-generation superstars in Baba and Inoki. A deeper dive into the topic would look into what replaced catch as popular TV programming. I'm not sure what happened with US television, and I know next to zero about French TV. I'm simply assuming that catch gave way to something else the way that wrestling did in Japan. 

[Phil Lions]

I'm no expert on French TV either, but I believe the decline of catch coincided with the rise of football (soccer) and some other sports. Because catch was easy and cheap to broadcast, it was adopted by television relatively early on while sports such as football were more difficult/expensive to air so they didn't become a regular fixture on French TV until the 1960s-1970s, and by the 1980s football was without question the most popular sport in the country. And this actually ties with another factor that I'm far from an expert on, but I believe it too played a role in the decline of catch. In the 1960s French society was changing, resulting in the large-scale May 1968 protests and strikes. One aspect of these societal changes was that the so-called "cult of the strong man" was going away. In other words, the views toward masculinity were changing and the traditional male values (strength, toughness, competitiveness, etc.) were no longer valued as much. Boxing, which used to be one of the most popular sports in France for decades, had a big dip in its popularity in the 1960s and especially in the 1970s, and I don't think it's recovered since. I've seen a number of mentions that the societal changes that were taking place back then, particularly the views toward masculinity, had a big hand in boxing's loss of popularity. I would imagine these societal changes impacted catch in a similar way as boxing.

Also, talking about there not being that many televisions, you reminded me to mention these interesting stats that I found. As of January 31, 1958, there were only about 700,000 registered television sets in France (and I'm guessing there were also a number of unregistered ones too). As of December 31, 1960, the number of registered TV sets was up to about 2 million, which comparatively speaking was a big rise and I've actually seen a couple of mentions that partially credited catch for this rise. Overall though with RTF being around since 1949 and France having a population of about 45 million people, that's definitely a slow TV penetration rate. For sure slower than the US or the UK. That said, it should be pointed out that back then watching TV had a social aspect to it as not only would the whole family gather together to watch TV, but neighbors or friends might come over as well to watch certain shows, if they didn't have a TV of their own. Some bars and pubs also had TVs and people would go there to watch (and catch being on TV was a strong draw for the pub/bar owners back then). So, despite there being only 2 million registered TV sets, the potential viewing audience was larger than what that number suggests at first glance.

[El-P]

36 minutes ago, Phil Lions said:

 In the 1960s French society was changing, resulting in the large-scale May 1968 protests and strikes. One aspect of these societal changes was that the so-called "cult of the strong man" was going away. In other words, the views toward masculinity were changing and the traditional male values (strength, toughness, competitiveness, etc.) were no longer valued as much. 

I really wouldn't go that far. There is a before/after 68, but to say traditional masculinity was challenged in mainstream culture to this extent, not really. There had been changes thanks to the wave of feminist movement that went alongside 68, but I don't think it shook society that much on the regard of pop culture. Alain Delon and Jean-Paul Belmondo's movies were still super popular in the 70's.

However, as far as society as a whole, and especially in term of media, there is quite a difference between the 60's and the 70's, and mostly after 1974 when Giscard d'Estaing became president. As absurd as it may seem now, Giscard's vision was one of a modernized country. He's the one who killed off the old ORTF system which had been very much a vestige of the old pompidolian France which was seen as so boring, hasbeen and passé by then. The catch culture on TV was very much a product of the post-war De Gaulle/Pompidou era. Giscard was much younger, he was much more progressive on social issues (although still a man from the right, but not the same as the previous generation) and France changed quite a bit in the second half of the 70's. 

[Phil Lions]

28 minutes ago, El-P said:

I really wouldn't go that far. There is a before/after 68, but to say traditional masculinity was challenged in mainstream culture to this extent, not really. There had been changes thanks to the wave of feminist movement that went alongside 68, but I don't think it shook society that much on the regard of pop culture. Alain Delon and Jean-Paul Belmondo's movies were still super popular in the 70's.

However, as far as society as a whole, and especially in term of media, there is quite a difference between the 60's and the 70's, and mostly after 1974 when Giscard d'Estaing became president. As absurd as it may seem now, Giscard's vision was one of a modernized country. He's the one who killed off the old ORTF system which had been very much a vestige of the old pompidolian France which was seen as so boring, hasbeen and passé by then. The catch culture on TV was very much a product of the post-war De Gaulle/Pompidou era. Giscard was much younger, he was much more progressive on social issues (although still a man from the right, but not the same as the previous generation) and France changed quite a bit in the second half of the 70's. 

You would know better than I would. Thank you for sharing this context.

All I can say is that I've seen several articles pointing to "the cult of the strong man", as they would put it, fading away as one of the main reasons for boxing's decline in the 1960s and 1970s. So that's what I was basing my writing above on. Not my area of expertise so I can't say how correct it is, but I have come across this claim several times.

[El-P]

10 minutes ago, Phil Lions said:

All I can say is that I've seen several articles pointing to "the cult of the strong man", as they would put it, fading away as one of the main reasons for boxing's decline in the 1960s and 1970s. So that's what I was basing my writing above on. Not my area of expertise so I can't say how correct it is, but I have come across this claim several times.

I'm sure it did play a role. Things were never the same after 68, and feminism played a part in it, although there was still a long way to go.

[David Mantell]

12 hours ago, ohtani's jacket said:

I don't think France was unique in this regard. I think you can drew parallels to the US and the state of wrestling in the 60s compared to the 50s. In both cases, wrestling was a huge draw during the early years of television but gradually faded.

In America's case any decline was a lot more sudden. The bursting of the TV Wrestling Boom bubble, particularly the closure of DuMont, was more of a cliff edge moment in American Wrestling history, comparable to what The Final Bell in the UK could have been if not for (1) All Star being a red hot promotion that just carried on under its own sheer momentum for the next five years (2) an American Wrestling boom starting mere weeks later that by 1992 resulted in a rerun of WM3 on British soil. By 1973 Joe Jares, commencing work on Whatever Happened To Gorgeous George? found himself asked by friends and colleagues who remembered their wrestling-brssoted late grandmothers, "Do they still have wrestling?"

From what I've read about American TV wrestling 1945-1955 it sounds a lot closer to the British/French model of serious sports coverage of all the big matchups rather than the later American model of it all being one big commercial for the live product.

[PeteF3]

The '50s U.S. footage is almost all (partially) televised house shows, similar to catch (it seems World of Sport/JP could be afford to be a bit more choosy in what aired from where, whereas the U.S. shows just showed whatever was happening at the Olympic Auditorium or Marigold Arena in Chicago that week, depending on the network). The rise of "studio wrestling" was pretty much post-national-TV boom and that's where what we perceive as the modern territorial TV format began.

(Of course, even within that there were exceptions--Portland and Dallas continued with the same televised-house-show format for their almost their entire existence).

[David Mantell]

On 3/23/2020 at 1:02 PM, ohtani's jacket said:

Janos Vadkerti vs. Roland Daumal (aired 10/13/60)

This was a nice little match from when men were men and catcheurs were catcheurs. I think Vadkerti was a Hungarian wrestler

Modesto Aledo vs. Teddy Boy (aired 10/13/60)

Modesto Aledo is another Spanish guy with a huge rep, and man was he good. I honestly thought I'd uncovered one of the all-time greats while he in control of the bout. Then Teddy Boy took over and it became a showcase for him. To Aledo's credit, Teddy Boy repeatedly suplexed him over the top rope and onto the floor, which was ballsy stuff. Aledo had a fiery comeback, and I thought we were back on the Aledo train, but Teddy Boy got the "w." Apparently, Aledo jobbed a lot in Britain as well. I swear he looked incredible, though. 

 

Janos Vs Roland is very much down on the match when we join with Roland maintaining a Frank Gotch toehold against reversal/ counter attempts by Janos.  Janos eventually springs free and administers his own headscissors but Roland easily snaps out. . They go for finger interlock and Janos fires a dropkick and Roland retorts with a Manchette .  Roland gets a fantastic Scisseaux Volees into kneeling press but somehow can't get even a 1 count for it and Janos takes him down with a bodyscissors.  Dumal gets a legspread held in place with a bridge. Vadkerti  unhooks his spread legs but then can't break the bridge so they rest.  Another interlock and Dumal gets the armbar and twists it into a figure four top wristlock. Vadkerti goes down with it and slaps on a headscissor. Dumal twists out an d they go into Planchette Japonaise interchange sequence. Vadkerti gets a bodyscissors and there is a lot of interchange over it. Dumal gets a headscissors on Vadkerti....It goes on like that. Holds worked over for long periods of time, the odd flurry of Manchettes. Vadkerti wibs with a folding press.

Aledo is still a Bon and not yet a Kamikaze. Teddy Boy is nothing of the sort. He is a Rocker/Greaser. He does not have an Edwardian Drapes suit or a DA quiff. What he is is quite the thought young brawler. Aledo is the more scientific but Teddy Boy is not the ideal opponent against whom to demonstrate this.  Aledo does do a few of his future Kamikaze rope tricks. For most of the match Aledo takes control until near the end when Teddy Boy uses some lutte Irreguliere to pitch Aledo twice out of the ring.  Aledo gets Irreguliere right back in Teddy's face along with the odd clean tick (the scoot forwards through the legs into ground dropkick). But in the end, Teddy gives Aledo a Warrior style press slam drop and splash to get the upset win. 

[Phil Lions]

On 4/23/2025 at 9:23 AM, Phil Lions said:

By the way, a bunch of people talked about this issue. It wasn't just Delaporte. It was an issue even at the peak of French catch. For example, here's a quote by Maurice Durand from April 1961, right after catch had been taken off TV:

Question: So you are in favor of completely eliminating catch from TV?
Maurice Durand: No, I just think that we shouldn't overdo it, and that we should be careful about the quality of the show. One session per month would seem perfect to me. When catch was shown every week, it was catastrophic for the catch organizers in the provinces. The announcement of televised catch demolishes the other sessions, which barely attract half-full audiences...

And that's a big reason why when catch returned to TV later in the year it was with a more reduced schedule.

And now here's another promoter saying the same thing as Delaporte and Durand. Today's discovery. Promoter Alex Goldstein talking about, among other things, the adverse effect catch being on television had had on the live gates in the provinces. This is from April 1961, right before catch was about to be pulled from TV by Raymond Janot (the general director of RTF).

- Interviewer: Do the catch organizers want catch to continue to be televised?
- Alex Goldstein: I'll give you my personal opinion. I think that television has done considerable harm to my show, while catch did a lot for TV. Catch sold a large number of receivers. That provided work for the workers who make the sets! But if tomorrow, in the current state of affairs, catch matches were banned from television, I would shout: "Bravo, Mr. Janot! Keep your paltry little fees, I'm going to have many more customers in my theaters!"
- Interviewer: So the influence of televised catch on your revenue is so great?
- Goldstein: It is very great, and sometimes catastrophic in the provinces. You know that there can be six or seven catch shows organized in the provinces on the same evening. Now, if that evening L'Ange Blanc, for example, is on television, half the people will stay at home in front of the screen! So, you understand that the organizers are right to complain.
- Interviewer: So you think that television doesn't pay you enough, in relation to the loss of customers suffered?
- Goldstein: We receive a ridiculous fee: 200,000 francs for two-person catch, 225,000 to 250,000 francs for four-person catch. While our show reaches several million people! If each viewer who likes catch gave us just 50 francs, admit it wouldn't be much, the viewer would surely agree, and our accounts would be fine!
- Interviewer: So you no longer want to work with TV?
- Goldstein: I think the question is to be reviewed with the launch of the second channel. But in any case, the number one problem to be resolved are the financial conditions.
- Interviewer: In your opinion, how often should television broadcasts be?
- Goldstein: This question is linked to the previous one. To be reviewed, depending on the conditions.
- Interviewer: We know that the majority of viewers demand catch. But you tell us that televised public meetings take away from your audience. Wouldn't it be possible, and would it be a way to satisfy everyone, if catch matches are staged in a studio, exclusively for the small screen?
- Goldstein: No, I answer absolutely no! Wrestlers need the atmosphere of the room, the reactions of the audience. If you deprive them of that, the quality of the matches will suffer. They are like theater or music hall artists! They need contact with the spectators. The more atmosphere, the better!

And on that final topic of studio wrestling, there was actually a one-off studio match that aired in 1966: Vassilios Mantopoulos & Ischa Israel vs. Billy Catanzaro & Gilbert Lemagourou with the popular music star Johnny Hallyday as guest commentator. It aired as part of the popular weekend show "Télé Dimanche" and was broadcast from the show's studio. Overall though the French promoters themselves were always against the idea of studio wrestling so that's why French catch never went that route.

[David Mantell]

On 5/9/2025 at 10:30 AM, ohtani's jacket said:

 the quality of the work

Looking at those last two bouts, a lot of the distinctive French Catch style and tropes had not yet been developed. Roland Vs Janos was pure German wrestling pre Steve Wright, down on the mat with a lot of earnest manoeuvring before a counter is gained.   Nobody yet is doing back somersaults from top wristlock s, headscissor takedown as counter to armbars, reverse snapmares to counter standing back hammerlocks.  All that came about later with Le Petit Prince, Michel Saulnier, Vasilous Mantopolous etc.

[HeadCheese]

Trying to get into French Catch (I have watched Billy Catanzaro vs. Gilbert Cesca and a few Piet Prince matches). I enjoy the character work and moves but, I don't know how I feel about the selling. I feel like sometimes the moves happen and they don't have any impact and the matches just kind of end. Interesting in wanting to see more and I want to like it but, it's not clicked with me yet.

Interested to hear pepoles thoughts on this, things to keep in mind.

 

For context I have 1950s matches before (Rikkidozan vs. Freddie Blassie). I also like lucha and some world of sport.

I think the pool match that is Billy Catanzaro & Pierre Bernaert vs Mr Montreal & Vassilios Mantopoulos is my favorite of the matches I have seen because wrestling on a pool is cool, the throughline of Billy Catanzaro accidentally being avoiding the water and knocking his opponents into the water was great, I think the selling  quirks that irked me less were less prevalent because it was tag match.

[ohtani's jacket]

13 hours ago, David Mantell said:

Looking at those last two bouts, a lot of the distinctive French Catch style and tropes had not yet been developed. Roland Vs Janos was pure German wrestling pre Steve Wright, down on the mat with a lot of earnest manoeuvring before a counter is gained.   Nobody yet is doing back somersaults from top wristlock s, headscissor takedown as counter to armbars, reverse snapmares to counter standing back hammerlocks.  All that came about later with Le Petit Prince, Michel Saulnier, Vasilous Mantopolous etc.

Those are characteristics of light weight wrestlers not Catch as a whole. 

[David Mantell]

52 minutes ago, ohtani's jacket said:

Those are characteristics of light weight wrestlers not Catch as a whole. 

Not really. There were different moves for different countries. France had those moves I listed. Britain had more escapology tricks and undresses of holds. Bigger wrestlers (not the outright superheavies tho)  did all the tricks too but less gracefully.

[HeadCheese]

5 hours ago, ohtani's jacket said:

Those are characteristics of light weight wrestlers not Catch as a whole. 

Thank you! Will check it out! Hoping I will like it!

[David Mantell]

44 minutes ago, HeadCheese said:

Thank you! Will check it out! Hoping I will like it!

This is the archetypal French bout:

(Ignore the silly paintings and harpsichord music - it was the TV Station's idea, not the wrestlers' or promoter's.)

And this is the archetypal British Wrestling match:

 

 

[David Mantell]

On 5/2/2020 at 3:28 PM, ohtani's jacket said:

Angelito vs. Albert Sanniez (aired 2/19/77)

This was joined in progress. Angelito isn't the greatest wrestler you'll ever discover, but at least we got to see the brilliance of Albert Sanniez in one more match.

Another archetypal French bout and one I'm amazed I hadn't previously reviewed.  This is Sanniez just shortly before his heel turn into a French version of Jim Breaks.   It's also intricate enough to warrant the blow by blow treatment.

Sanniez gets a top wristlock on Angelito and throws him twice in it. Ang converts to an arm lever and uses a simple standing twist to tighten it up which Sanniez loosens again with a horizontal posterior spin a la Breaks. Angelito kips up and does one of the characteristic French moves I mentioned, the back flip off a top wristlock.  He then does another one, the headscissors takedown while in an armbar. (British wrestlers usually prefer the forwards roll on the mat rather than the headscissors counter..  When the French  headscissors trick was tried on World of Sport, the scissorer was usually caught and thrown off.)  Angelito gets a rear seated bodyscissors on Sanniez an lifts him for the "ou-ais" mini atomic drop but Sanniez positions for a feet first landing. Ang tries again with an added  chinlock for extra pullback  but San undermines it the same way.  The third time Sanniez flips all the way backwards to a standing start. He tries for a crafty folding press but Angelito drags him right back and tries for the double legs folding press plus bridge.Sanniez aims a kick at Angelito's face, causing him to release  Sanniez goes behind Angelito and gets a ground top wristlock on again, Angelito kips up and back flips out and whips Sanniez's arm to force a hard landing from a forward flip but Sanniez fires back with a ground position dropkick.  Sanniez gets a top wristlock on the mat, Angelito tries to reverse it with a simple double arm twist but Sanniez clamps on a side headlock to arrest the manoeuvring. He does the spinning flying armdrags and a conventional pair and comes out still with the anm.  .Angelito tries a headscissor counter on that Sanniez snaps out of easily.  He still has the arm so Angelito tries a rope assisted backflip similar to British wrestler Mark "Kid McCoy" Boothman's  Yorkshire Rope Trick (or one of the two he did).  But Sanniez STILL has the arm! Angelito gets into a standing side by side position, flips to undo the armlock then cross buttocks Sanniez out of the ring but the ropes save him. Sanniez manchettes Angelito and Angelito responds in kind. They both come off the ropes at the same time and both hit the deck. Stopping only to high five each other they exchange European uppercuts. Angelito throws Sanniez down to the ring apron and sunset flips him to ringside.  They re-enter from opposite sides and Sanniez gets a standing full nelson on Angelito who leans forward to shrug him off. Angelito gets a forearm and double leg slingshot leaving Sanniez flat in the mount in the opposite corner. Another Manchette and another flip but this time Sanniez hits the ground rolling into a standing position. When Angelito charges in Sanniez backwards vaults him and lands a dropkick. A Manchette each and Angelito posts Sanniez. He tries again, Sanniez reversed it but Angelito goes up into a flying bodypress for a two count. Angelito gets a bodycheck then a sunset flip which ends up in a back and forth "Bascule" of alternating double leg nelson pin attempts. Sanniez tries to get a folding press but Angelito clips him with a double ankle smash then tries for his own folding press and Sanniez also breaks it up with the double ankles.  There are two mins left says the MC. They alternate Manchettes and dropkicks as the clock wears down. Sanniez performs a powerbomb on Angelito!  Sanniez whips Angelito into the ropes, presses him overhead, drops him chest first on one knee and tries for a pin but Angelito gets a foot under the ropes.  More manchettes and Angelito gets a fireman's carry into another over the knee stomachbreaker then a crosspress which Sanniez reversed (note referee Roger Delaporte counting pin attempts  by stomping his foot!). Sanniez bench presses Angelito up from the mat and delivers a blockbuster suplex. They are still exchanging Manchettes when the time limit runs out.

A good little scientific draw, sags a bit in the final 120 to 60 secs as the clock and their energy wears down but they got in a few final good moves in there. Nice sportsmanship afterwards too, all handshakes and hugs. Within months Sanniez would have changed his attitude and style - as too would Angelito for a little while two years later when he teamed with career long archenemy Jacky Richard. For now, these two put on a fine exhibition of the French Catch technical style.

Sanniez put up another, silent, copy of this match on his YouTube, probably from a kinescope print of his.

 

 

 

[ohtani's jacket]

Le Petit Prince vs. Michel Saulnier is not the archetypal French catch bout. Saint vs. Faulkner isn't the archetypal British bout either. They are one style of wrestling within a myriad of different styles. There isn't a singular style that defines either country's wrestling. A middleweight lucha title bout doesn't define lucha libre just as a lightweight bout doesn't define Japanese wrestling. 

[David Mantell]

1 hour ago, ohtani's jacket said:

Le Petit Prince vs. Michel Saulnier is not the archetypal French catch bout. Saint vs. Faulkner isn't the archetypal British bout either. They are one style of wrestling within a myriad of different styles. There isn't a singular style that defines either country's wrestling. A middleweight lucha title bout doesn't define lucha libre just as a lightweight bout doesn't define Japanese wrestling. 

There are two distinctive move sets for clean technical wrestling in French Wrestling and British Wrestling.  I would pick those two bouts as the ACME of each respective style. Most French Bons do a certain one set of moves, most British blue-eyes do a certain different set.  In either country Les Mechants/the heels (for example Kendo in round 1  of a 70s bout) do the same move set at the start of a bout before they start with the dirty wrestling.

Definitely with British wrestling you can often tell when watching American Wrestling if someone either has a background in the territory (eg Owen Hart) or has trained with/been trained by someone who comes from Britain (eg Eugene as part of the storyline where Regal trained him or various WCW wrestlers including Johnny B Badd , Mark Bagwell and I think even Tom Zenk who learned the British chain sequences from Regal so they could do them together in the ring on WCW Worldwide and were soon happily forward rolling and cartwheeling out of armbars.) 

Far less French Catcheurs have made it in America but if there were more you would see certain people doing backflips on top wristlocks, reverse snapmares out of hammerlocks and using headscissors in place of the above forward rolls.

American wrestlers with no Euro influence whatsoever meanwhile would continue to just stand there and sell armbars while doing nothing to untwist the arm. For that is the American style.

[HeadCheese]

Watched Janos Vadkerti vs Roland Daumal and Modesto Aledo vs. Teddy Boy. Liked Janos Vadkerti vs Roland Daumal. I think it was good.

Modesto Aledo vs. Teddy Boy is proabably my favorite French Catch I have seen so far,  really like how Teddy Boy got progressively angrier. It still has the problem that I feel when I have watched French Catch where once the wrestlers get up oftentimes it feels like their health bar is reset and the matches don't have build up to finishes I'm used to.

Something I am wondering is with French Catch should I go in with unique expectations. For example watching someone can enjoy a Shawn Micheals and Young Bucks match but, its important to keep in mind with Shawn Micheals a superkick is the biggest move ever but, with the Young Bucks its a move to wear down down their opponents to lead to bigger moves and they'll do like 8 in a match. Doesn't make either less great but, it's a thing to keep in mind.

[David Mantell]

2 hours ago, HeadCheese said:

Something I am wondering is with French Catch should I go in with unique expectations. For example watching someone can enjoy a Shawn Micheals and Young Bucks match but, its important to keep in mind with Shawn Micheals a superkick is the biggest move ever but, with the Young Bucks its a move to wear down down their opponents to lead to bigger moves and they'll do like 8 in a match. Doesn't make either less great but, it's a thing to keep in mind.

Traditional British Wrestling, Traditional French Catch and Traditional German/Austrian Catch do share a lot in terms of philosophy and tropes (and most likely share them with the extinct Spanish, Italian and Greek Catch cultures). Experience of any individual one of these is an advantage in understanding the others. Having said that this thread could really do with the input of a French fan who actually grew up with French Catch and became a wrestling fan initially via this territory, as I do with British Wrestling on the "The Beginners Guide To British Wrestling" thread.

[David Mantell]

2 hours ago, HeadCheese said:

the matches don't have build up to finishes I'm used to.

 Quite a lot of finishes in European Wrestling are alien to American Wrestling fans. For example as a British fan I was brought up to regard a 10 count knockout as being actually a more thorough and definite finish to a match than two falls/. submissions (and I get the impression the same concept exists in both French and German/Austrian Catch)  but you wouldn't believe the hard time I had explaining this to people on the "Why is America always assumed to be the centre of the wrestling universe?" thread on here.  So yes there is some amount of opening of mind required and accepting of certain aspects of European Wrestling as being different, not defective from American Wrestling.

[ohtani's jacket]

10 hours ago, David Mantell said:

There are two distinctive move sets for clean technical wrestling in French Wrestling and British Wrestling. 

Which is one style of wrestling. It's actually my favorite style of French and British wrestling, but to the original point, even the rise of Le Petit Prince, who was a phenomenal worker that's still not getting his due among wrestling fans, and the other great lightweights of the late 60s and early 70s doesn't mean that there wasn't a sharp decline in everything Catch related from the 50s to the end of the 60s. It's a beckon in a dying territory, the same way Grey, Saint and Breaks were in the UK, but Catch as an artform peaked in the 50s. 

[ohtani's jacket]

3 hours ago, HeadCheese said:

Watched Janos Vadkerti vs Roland Daumal and Modesto Aledo vs. Teddy Boy. Liked Janos Vadkerti vs Roland Daumal. I think it was good.

Modesto Aledo vs. Teddy Boy is proabably my favorite French Catch I have seen so far,  really like how Teddy Boy got progressively angrier. It still has the problem that I feel when I have watched French Catch where once the wrestlers get up oftentimes it feels like their health bar is reset and the matches don't have build up to finishes I'm used to.

Something I am wondering is with French Catch should I go in with unique expectations. For example watching someone can enjoy a Shawn Micheals and Young Bucks match but, its important to keep in mind with Shawn Micheals a superkick is the biggest move ever but, with the Young Bucks its a move to wear down down their opponents to lead to bigger moves and they'll do like 8 in a match. Doesn't make either less great but, it's a thing to keep in mind.

Very few workers have signature finishers. There a workers that have signature spot, but typically the workers have an arsenal of moves they use to score a pinfall or submission and sometimes they just use standard moves. Most finishes are BS. They workers lose their temper and it descends into a forearm smash contest and the match is thrown out somehow. Sometimes it went off air without a result because the match was still in progress. One thing that I struggled with when watching Catch was the rhythm and pacing of the falls. WoS was easier because of the rounds system, but the three fall system in Catch often led to long and ponderous matches that lacked the rhythm of lucha three fall matches where the formula is clear as day. The focus is from spot to spot rather than any kind of specific match layout. I'm not convinced they thought about matches in those terms. 

[David Mantell]

43 minutes ago, ohtani's jacket said:

Which is one style of wrestling. It's actually my favorite style of French and British wrestling,

Well it's not just lightweights - in Britain Pat Roach, Pete Roberts, Tony StClair and (before he would "lose his cool" and break out the dirty wrestling for the evening) Kendo Nagasaki did all that.

I'm just about to review a Pat Roach match where he does a fair bit of that although that wont be the focus of the review (wrong opponent for that sort of bout).

 

43 minutes ago, ohtani's jacket said:

a dying territory

All three stronghold North West European wrestling cultures survive at least at grassroots level, which is more than can be said for all bar one mainland American/Canadian wrestling territory

[HeadCheese]

3 hours ago, ohtani's jacket said:

Very few workers have signature finishers. There a workers that have signature spot, but typically the workers have an arsenal of moves they use to score a pinfall or submission and sometimes they just use standard moves. Most finishes are BS. They workers lose their temper and it descends into a forearm smash contest and the match is thrown out somehow. Sometimes it went off air without a result because the match was still in progress. One thing that I struggled with when watching Catch was the rhythm and pacing of the falls. WoS was easier because of the rounds system, but the three fall system in Catch often led to long and ponderous matches that lacked the rhythm of lucha three fall matches where the formula is clear as day. The focus is from spot to spot rather than any kind of specific match layout. I'm not convinced they thought about matches in those terms. 

Thank you! That helps and I didn't think about that way