French catch

[David Mantell]

10 hours ago, Phil Lions said:

Der Henker is one of the more amusing gimmicks to me. Durand saw the success of L'Homme Masque so with Le Bourreau de Béthune he created his own L'Homme Masque but instead of black made him red. Goldstein then returned the favour by introducing Der Henker a.k.a. Le Masque Rouge. 

I was going to mention, the announcer makes a fuss about his mask being Red, so much so that I suspect this bout was originally in colour on channel 2

10 hours ago, Phil Lions said:

In short, Der Henker was an imitation of an imitation, which I find amusing.

It can happen - Peter Thornley > Bill Clarke > Dale Preston.

Or indeed 1960s Spanish Kamikaze (Modesto Aledo/Benny) > 1970s French TV Kamikazes 1 & 2 > Ian Gilmour as a good guy Kamikaze on ITV in the early 80s.

[David Mantell]

On 5/31/2020 at 2:03 PM, ohtani's jacket said:

Linda Blair & Magnifico (?) vs. Nicky McDonald & Brigitte Borne (aired 8/25/84)

This was okay. At least they treated women's wrestling seriously. I'm pretty sure that Linda Blair is the British wrestler, Lena Blair. I couldn't make out her partner's name, but it sounded like they were calling her "Magnifico."  Borne was a French wrestler who was prominent in the 70s along with a number of other women. Actually, it looks like we have one of her 70s matches against Lola Garcia. 

Actually @Matt D has them  labelled the other way round.  Blair and McDonald Vs Borne and Magnifique Manetry Gowart. However I've checked and the short haired girl is indeed Brigitte, she was on TV in 1978 against Lola Garcia

This should auto Fast Foward to 35:53, I've written it into the URL

 

This was part of La Derniere Manchette, that strange TV production FR3 put on in 1984 a year before taking over Catch coverage from Antenne 2, part of its odd mixture of current bouts, archive footage and crowd skits set at a pretend house show (actually shot in a TV studio) with opinions from Roger Delaporte and the inevitable French TV celebrity guest opinions. If you want to watch earlier in the clip, they've got Roger's heel Vs heel bout with L'Homme Masque from the 50s on.

Nicki MacDonald should be a familiar face for readers of the British thread - Naughty Nicky Monroe, dubbed a  "Soho Sex Kitten" by Orig Williams in the middle of a Reslo Welsh language commentary, former heel tag partner of Klondyke Kate, they wrestled Mitzi in her 1987 Royal Albert Hall retirement bout before Nicky turned blue-eye on Kate and ended up facing her for Mitzi's vacated British title on BBC2's Raging Belles docu (where we saw her other life caring for the elderly) only to be injured by the victorious Kate and put out of wrestling for a couple of years to win the title. Reslo stayed around long enough to catch her reconciling with Kate and reforming their heel team in 1995 but Nicky truly found her calling in life as Mrs Nichole South, wife of Johnny South and hardened keyboard warrior keen to stick her claws into anybody with a bad word about her husband and his Legend of Doom gimmick or else coming to Kendo Nagasaki's defence when the old boys are bitching about him on Facebook.

The two Blonde women have a bad biker babe thing going on in UK Rockers/Bloussons Noirs/early Road Warriors peaked cap. There is a hint of Leilani Kai and Judy Martin's heel WWF Glamour Girls tag team. The two  biker blondes have a power advantage over their opponents, short haired minidresses Blair looks like a little girl doing ballet.  Nicki certainly knows her British style escapes and kip -ups as well as attacking moves including a nice Frank Gotch figure four leglock. Les Bomnes get an easy first fall

The Bad Blondes restate their dominance early on with front chanceries and side headlocks on Brigitte til she escapes, converting a side headlock into a hammerlock.  The bad girls get a public warning but soon get an equalising pinfall.   They continue the work on both Bonnes and eventually get the decider. The actor playing the beardy spectator gets so wound up he has to be restrained but he female celeb pundit is quite impressed with her first Ladies Wrestling match.

 

[David Mantell]

On 11/16/2024 at 10:40 AM, David Mantell said:

Quote

On 11/16/2024 at 10:40 AM, David Mantell said:

OJ wrote:

Gilbert Leduc vs. Bert Mychel (aired 12/12/70 or 4/12/71)

Gilbert Leduc was one of the greatest wrestlers that France has known. Nicknamed "The Gentleman of the Ring," he was a long time European and World Champion. I guess he was comparable to a guy like Mike Marino, who was a perennial champion and a cornerstone of the professional game. His specialty was "La Toupie," which was a vertical escape from a heads scissors. Apparently, he could get nine rotations on his head spin, with legend having it that no other wrestler could get close to that number. Bert Mychel was an amateur wrestler who competed at the 1960 and 1964 Olympics. You can imagine the catch that these two put on. The first match was a gentlemanly bout of catch with both men saluting each other. 

 

Der Henker (German for "The Hangman") was supposedly a German who had come West of the Rhine. In fact he was a Spaniard who have come north of three Pyrenees after travelling a fair bit else of the World - Oscar Verdu, aka Crusher Verdu, formerly in the WWWF under both Lou Albano and Tony Angelo.  Still under his Henker hood, he would have a French Heavyweight title win in the early 80s. This run would last until 1974 at least, with Par Roach confronting him and Daniel Schmidt after an ill gotten consolation pin.

Back in 1970,  it's a slow moving bout with lots of waiting around in holds until Jacky's dad throws in lhe towel after a reverse piledriver. Jacky gets carried off,  Pere Corne is interviewed (and refuses to face the camera) says his son was in no state to continue, blames the referee. Crowd are spitting heat at Der Henker, the Chiotte Arbitre and any other poor soul.

Bout 2 is joined in progress, some selling noises and a knockout count and we fade up to the bout. Le Dec spends a long time on an arm extension on Mychell.  LeDuc uses his toupee to get out of the hold. Mychell offers his hand but has an angry expression, or is that just his rest face?  LeDuc does the toupee again twice in the more conventional cross scissor form that everyone else in France (and even a few Brits) did.  Bert works Gilbert over with a bodyscissors.  LeDuc tries a pin attempt and wristlock in the scissors but to no avail. He eventually drags his way out inch by inch like Johnny Saint. They then exchange Manchettes. 

Mychell gets a headscissors. Three times Le Duc tries to toupee out, The fourth and fifth times, he lands on his knees and escapes but Bert just puts the scissor back on.  On the sixth go, Bert starts to pull him back, but Gilbert spins round into a cross press for a 2 count and they agree to try something else.

Similar situations involving a standing full nelson, a Boston Crab and another bodyscissors which Mychell counters into a single leg toehold. That sort of thing. Skill but not speed. Audience claps respectfully. Action picks up a bit including three neat blockbuster supleex from Bert.  A fourth is countered by a Le Duc side chancery. He goes for a pin but it ends up in the ropes and a Manchette battle breaks out.  Bert flips LeDuc neck first into the ropes but he gets up at 4., puls out one more Manchette, goes for a slam and cross press for the pin.  They hug and LeDuc offers Mychell a swig of his Perrier bottle. He partakes heavily. Apparently this was a World Light Heavyweight title bout, champion LeDuc is presented with the belt and a bouquet of flowers just like in title matches in Britain.

Two fairly solid if not action packed bouts. Lutte Academique as the commentator on the Bert-Gilbert bout put it.  Modern fans would probably slag these bouts off for their "lack of work rate." In theory I say to hell with them but in practice there were skil-and-speed merchants out their who leave the American "booo-ring" smart mark brigade without a leg to stand on.   At least with these bouts the long running hols accusation does have some basic validity.

I seem to recall Mychell was on World Of Sport a couple of years later, I shall have to look it up.

 

Print news story about a Le Duc Vs Mychell bout supported by a Der Hunker Vs Jacky Corne combat, presumably the same show:

[David Mantell]

Two more thoughts on Henker versus Jacky.

1) The commentator does say that Der Henker has recently come back from a successful run in the USA.

2) The TKO finish certainly gets heat.Nobody is complaining about it being a screw job finish however- if anything the crowd's gripe is that Henker should be DQ'd for his brutality. See my new post on p39 of  the British thread for another example of this from 1991, two decades after this.

[David Mantell]

On 5/26/2020 at 10:07 PM, ohtani's jacket said:

He's a straight Flash Gordon ripoff, though. I guess he took the Flesh Gordon name to avoid any legal trouble. He's a pretty good worker, too. The only knock I would have on him is if he's in charge of the book. In that case, these shitty gimmicks are on him. 

Just spotted this.

Nope, you can lay all that at Delaporte's door. As I've discussed before, the likes of Le Batman, Le Bete Humane and Le Hippie Du Ring were the root of it and it continued into the 21st Century with the likes of Cybernic Machine and Bad Mask. All that was the French equivalent of Big Daddy vs Giant Haystacks or Otto Wanz vs the American Superstars.

[Phil Lions]

Over the weekend I started researching the career of Gilbert Leduc more in-depth than I ever have in the past, because I want to help push his case for the WON HOF next year, and in doing so I ended up uncovering a bunch of new information on how catch worked in France on an organizational level in the post-WWII years through the mid 1950s. I became so intrigued by it that I've paused the Leduc research for now and have focused my efforts on the organizational stuff instead. Apparently, things were a lot more interesting and tumultuous back then than I realized (rival organizations, lawsuits, potential corruption...). So now I've decided to do a timeline/article chronicling all the important events in French catch history that I'm aware of. Haven't decided yet what year would be the cut-off point. I'll share the link here once it's ready, hopefully in the next few weeks.

[Matt D]

5 hours ago, Phil Lions said:

Over the weekend I started researching the career of Gilbert Leduc more in-depth than I ever have in the past, because I want to help push his case for the WON HOF next year, and in doing so I ended up uncovering a bunch of new information on how catch worked in France on an organizational level in the post-WWII years through the mid 1950s. I became so intrigued by it that I've paused the Leduc research for now and have focused my efforts on the organizational stuff instead. Apparently, things were a lot more interesting and tumultuous back then than I realized (rival organizations, lawsuits, potential corruption...). So now I've decided to do a timeline/article chronicling all the important events in French catch history that I'm aware of. Haven't decided yet what year would be the cut-off point. I'll share the link here once it's ready, hopefully in the next few weeks.

Exciting stuff. And yes, full push for Gilbert.

[David Mantell]

9 hours ago, Phil Lions said:

Haven't decided yet what year would be the cut-off point.

Needless to say I am of the opinion that the survival to the present of Old School British Wrestling, Old School French Catch and Old School German/Austrian Catch (certainly they are in better condition than any mainland US/Canadian scene except New York). is a defining feature of all three "Stronghold" Euro territories as much as the abundance of footage of all three scenes.

An interesting issue is how badly French TV execs were scarred by the 1961 failed cancellation and how whereas in Britain, Greg Dyke made a big song and dance in 1988 about cancelling ITV wrestling, in France, the moved to Eurosport on Astra at the start was presented to the French public as merely the latest of a series of recent channel moves.

In reality, the end of the preview run of New Catch on TF1 In late 1988 was the equivalent point in the cycle of The Final Bell on ITV mere weeks earlier/later.

[David Mantell]

This seems to be my understanding of the chronology of Le Catch Sur La Télé:

1933 - FFCP set up by Raoul Paoli and Henri DeGlane

1944 - Paris is liberated and the Nazis TV transmitter at the Eiffel Tower is captured and used for the new ORTF TV service 

1952 - Wrestling highlights start popping up as part of the sports sections of TV News.

1956 - The first proper standalone broadcasts begin.

1959 - Commentator Claude Darget is fired after breaking kayfabe on air, only to be reinstated after his colleagues threaten to go on strike. Unfortunately this established the idea of it being a point of freedom of speech and journalist integrity to take a cynical mocking tone to pro wrestling.

1961 ORTF TV chief Raymond Jamot, under pressure from sports minister Maurice Herzog, cancels TV wrestling but it is soon brought back after a public outcry.

1964 ORTF Channel 2 is launched and some wrestling bouts are transplanted to the new channel.  

Later in 1964 : ORTF becomes RTF

1967 : Channel 2 goes colour and so does any wrestling on it. Next earliest bout we know was on Channel 2 is a December 1967 hair Vs hair tag.

1969 January 25th - a rare surviving colour tape of Roger Delaporte and Andre Bollet Vs Marcel Montreal and Warnia Zarzecki escapes wiping, ending up at the INA (see below). Other bouts on Channel 2  from December 1967 to June 1974 only survive on B/W film but may contain chroma dots for future colour recovery. Channel One remains in black and white for several more years as do any wrestling bouts on it (see also below)

1972 December 31st, Channel 3 is launched as a network of regions but does not have any wrestling until 1984.

1975, January, RTF is abolished and the three TV channels become TF1, A(ntenne) 2 and FR3.

1975  later.  The INA is established. It takes on board 18 years of Kinescopes 1956-1974, the one surviving colour videotape from 1969 and starts making off air recordings of wrestling shows going  forward.

1975 September - TF1, up to this point still B/W, starts screening some colour shows, mostly repeats of old FR3.  All wrestling from 1975-1976 is in colour labelledwhich suggests it was all broadcast on Antenne 2 at this point.

1977 - TF1 finally goes full colour. A couple of colour bouts are on  TF1  1977-1979ish. but after this, all bouts until 1984 are on A2.

1979 An early incarnation of the IWSF opens in Montereau-Fault-Yonne

1979 also - Gerard Hervé, a Frenchman trained and wrestling in Mexico, moved back to his native country and make his TV debut.  Within a year, he renames himself Flesh Gordon and starts making a name for himself as Walter Bordes's last great tag partner.

1984 - La Derniere Manchette appears on FR3.

1984/1985 WWF starts screening on Canal +

1985 Summer, wrestling is moved from Antenna 2 to FR3, transmission is staggered across the network.

1987 TF1 is privatised

1987 circa November, Catch on FR3 quietly comes to an end.

1988 An initial run of New Catch is screened on TF1. The end of this run is the end, for the time being, of French wrestling on analogue terrestrial TV after 32+years and the equivalent of the Final Bell on ITV in the UK.

1989 February - New Catch resumes on Eurosport, available across Europe on Astra.

1989 later, Delaporte retires from promoting.

1991 - A further run of New Catch on TF1

Early 1990s, end of New Catch.  Shortly thereafter, Bernard Van Damme's Eurostars promotion gets a TV show somewhere, some how which goes on TV and stays into the 2000s.

2006 Marc Mercier revives the FFCP with Delaporte as adviser.

2007 a WWF boom in France produces an upswing in attendance for all French promotions including WS and FFCP

2009 Delaporte dies.

2012 IWSF renamed Wrestling Stars 

2024 Marc Mercier retires from wrestling and the FFCP.

 

[Phil Lions]

I finished reading the new Marc Mercier book that was just released. It's a mix of stories about Marc's father and family, Marc's career as a wrestler, Marc's movie career, Marc's personal life and Marc's days as a promoter. I found it enjoyable, mostly because it's not often that you get to read books set in the world of catch, and overall it's a solid account of Marc's life, but some parts of the book I don't buy. At times there's definitely exaggeration in there and also some stuff that is absolutely not true. The most amusing example of both being Marc claiming that his father was a huge star in Zurich and with him on the card they were regularly drawing 47,000 people (mind you, the venue he mentions cannot hold more than 15,000) until one time when he wasn't on the card and the attendance was 1,500... A few interesting nuggets of info from the book:

José Gonzales' real name was... Daniel Lequec, a Frenchman.

The Golden Falcons were Guy Renaud and Robert Torres. That was in 1977. Later they also wrestled as Les Panthers, a nazi-esque gimmick.

Marc was trained by Michel Chaisne at Louis Michon's catch school in Paris. Guy Renaud and Robert Torres also had a big hand in training him.

Marc's debut match in 1977 was against Bruno Lequec (José Gonzales' son).

Marc's big break, and he got it less than a year into his career (according to him because Roger Couderc recommended him), was working for Delaporte at Elysee-Montmartre. He has a very high opinion of Delaporte.

If Marc's narrative (i.e. his claims of regular TV appearances by his father and later by him) is to be believed, then INA is missing quite a few matches.

At one point Delaporte teamed up Marc with Gérard Hervé (Flesh Gordon) under the tag team name Les Playboys. Marc says they worked as a team for about three years and he talks very fondly of this time. Marc says Delaporte didn't like Gordon very much, because he found him to be arrogant and eventually Delaporte fired Gordon, which led to Gordon starting his own company. Marc credits Gordon for talking him into returning to the ring in the early 2000s (Marc had retired in 1989 after a serious car accident). Eventually Marc decided to leave Gordon's promotion and start his own company so in April 2006 he bought the FFCP name from Delaporte. He says he didn't feel at home in Gordon's promotion and didn't like how the younger generation was treating him. He told Gordon about starting the new company and wanted them to work together and share the French market. At first they were working together and Gordon was sending Marc talent, but then their relationship turned sour.

In the book he keeps taking shots at a certain "rich promoter", one of the French ones, and never mentions him by name. I can't quite figure out who he's referring to. It was someone who he says was in a few car crashes and one of them led to the death of an English wrestler (not mentioned by name).

He paints Duranton specifically in a pretty negative light and makes him out to be very arrogant.

At one point he mentions the term "bourre", which kind of surprised me. "Bourre" and "chiqué" were the old Greco-Roman pro wrestling terms for shoot and work, respectively, used in the times of Paul Pons before WWI. Didn't expect to see such a term used in a book about catch. However, it seems over time "bourre" became the term for wrestlers having a private gym match to see who the better man is. Mercier used it in that context and I checked with Bob Plantin, who confirmed he also knows the term in that context. In the times of Pons it was used for shoot matches in front the crowd too. According to Marc, before championship matches wrestlers used to have "bourre" bouts in front of their colleagues and the winner would then be booked to win the championship match. He doesn't explicitly say it, but he mentions the "bourre" stuff right after talking about the 1960s so this gives the impression this championship-deciding practice was happening in the 1960s, which I don't believe. Heck, I don't believe they were doing it in the 1930s either, let alone the 1960s. Either way though, it's interesting to see that the term "bourre" traveled through the decades.

He also uses the term "mourir" (to die) as the term for "selling".
 

On 11/20/2024 at 12:41 AM, David Mantell said:

1933 - FFCP set up by Raoul Paoli and Henri DeGlane

No. My new research has confirmed that this is definitely not correct and it's something that people often get wrong (Mercier gets it wrong in his book too). FFCP was started by Etienne Siry and Robert Lageat in 1950 and at first it was just a governing body for catch (a rival governing body to the one Paoli, Goldstein and others were working with). At that point there were still no promotional names. FFCP later became the name of the Siry/Lageat promotion. I'm not clear on the timeline after this, but I guess later Delaporte ended up with the FFCP name and then in 2006 Mercier bought it from him.

[David Mantell]

16 hours ago, Phil Lions said:

If Marc's narrative (i.e. his claims of regular TV appearances by his father and later by him) is to be believed, then INA is missing quite a few matches.

Told you all so.  Mercier vs Albert Sanniez 1978 isn't on @Matt D's list of videos for example.

My guess is that INA, once they had opened up for biz in 1975 and imported two decades worth of overseas kinescopes and the one lucky surviving Jan '69 colour transmission tape,  had to tape a certain amount of matches as a quota.  Probably less many after the move to FR3 in 1985 with matches given a first screen in one area then getting passed round other FR3 regions to a non-synchronised schedule.

[David Mantell]

3 hours ago, Phil Lions said:

Quote

1933 - FFCP set up by Raoul Paoli and Henri DeGlane

No. My new research has confirmed that this is definitely not correct and it's something that people often get wrong (Mercier gets it wrong in his book too). FFCP was started by Etienne Siry and Robert Lageat in 1950 and at first it was just a governing body for catch (a rival governing body to the one Paoli, Goldstein and others were working with). At that point there were still no promotional names. FFCP later became the name of the Siry/Lageat promotion. I'm not clear on the timeline after this, but I guess later Delaporte ended up with the FFCP name and then in 2006 Mercier bought it from him.

Sounds like a "The NWA World title was set up in 1905" situation.  What did DeGlane and Paoli set up, then?

[Phil Lions]

5 hours ago, David Mantell said:

What did DeGlane and Paoli set up, then?

"Les Organisations Raoul Paoli" or "Raoul Paoli Promotions", if you prefer its English-language equivalent. Here it is on a poster from 1934:


In the 1950s Paoli's promotion merged with Goldstein's promotion and eventually that became "Fédération Internationale de Lutte et de Combat" (FILC). Here it is on a poster from 1961 down at the bottom:


Anyway, this will all be in my upcoming catch timeline. Up until the early 1960s I've got stuff mostly figured out, with a few notable gaps. After that it gets much trickier to figure out. The bad news is that French copyright laws are such that 70 years need to have passed since the original date of publication for them to be able to make newspapers digitally available, which means that right now almost nothing past 1953 is available (for a while there were some post-1953 newspapers available, but then they got taken down). So yeah, it would be quite a while until the 60s, 70s and beyond newspapers become available online and we're able to do more thorough research on those decades...

[David Mantell]

With all this talk of both Der Henker and Gilbert LeDuc, I fancy watching this 1971  bout. It doesn't seem to have been reviewed before so why not now?

Der Henker has help from one of the Kamikazes to keep safe against the man he TKOd months earlier, looking for revenge. Gilbert hasn't the option to get all serious like in the Mychel bout.  

A masked "German" and a masked "Japanese". Reminds me of the Spoiler (Drew McDonald) and King Kendo (Bill Clarke) on ITV in 1987.  When a drum majorette comes out.I half expect Big Daddy to be in tow until I remember this is France 1971. (These majorettes are a slightly slinkier more post pubescent bunch than Daddy's marching girlies, swinging their long legs all over the place.)  They play the same trumpet tune as the majorettes at one or two early 80s Daddy matches.

LeDuc is down in ar armbars but flying scissors Henker and tags a vengeful Corne.  Henker doesn't fancy it and tags Kamikaze. He remembers what he did. Nice bit of storyline there from a territory not known for such things.

Les Bons tag in and out on Kamikaze and Henker gets a good solid wristlock on LeDuc - Henker is not bothered by LeDuc for all his legend. LeDuc's lengthy selling reminds me a lot of the Mychel match.  Jacky returns but Henker takes him down then hands him over to Kamikaze. 

Le Duc tries out his toupees on Henker.  Corne bodyscissors Kami a fair bit. Kami is actually a pretty decent technical wrestler who can do folding presses and cartwheels with the best of 'em. Gilbert is FIP against the masked men before coming back against both together with a scissor/bulldog combination and gets the opening fall from Kamikaze.

The masked men regain control. Henker has a great press slam. dropping Le Duc stomach first onto one knee.  Henker strikes Gilbert with the same piledriver he injured Corne with before. Gilbert is carted away, an enraged Corner goes Henker but soon the masked men are back in charge. Henker gets THAT SAME PILEDRIVER on Corne but he is up at eight this time. A second one gets a 9 count and a third gets a KNOCKOUT.

But wait , there are still 10 mins of the YouTube video left.  Henker does a Hulk and poses in the ring. HENKER MUST POSE! Kamikaze simpers round him like Brutus Beefcake . For some reason, Corne is allowed to fight on for the deciding fall. LevDuc comes back and strikes the hot tag a minutes later, hammers on both and leglocks Henker but then goes wild and attacks the referee getting an Avertisement. It gets back down to Corne armlocking Henker. Henker is trapped in the ropes while Le Duc pins Kamikaze to make it a 2-1 win. Kami tries an after bell attack but gets nothing from it.

 

 

[David Mantell]

On 11/19/2024 at 11:54 AM, Phil Lions said:

Over the weekend I started researching the career of Gilbert Leduc more in-depth than I ever have in the past, because I want to help push his case for the WON HOF next year, and in doing so I ended up uncovering a bunch of new information on how catch worked in France on an organizational level in the post-WWII years through the mid 1950s. I became so intrigued by it that I've paused the Leduc research for now and have focused my efforts on the organizational stuff instead. Apparently, things were a lot more interesting and tumultuous back then than I realized (rival organizations, lawsuits, potential corruption...). So now I've decided to do a timeline/article chronicling all the important events in French catch history that I'm aware of. Haven't decided yet what year would be the cut-off point. I'll share the link here once it's ready, hopefully in the next few weeks.

Gilbert got a mention on Jim Cornette's show this weekend.  He's up for the WON HOF as you mentioned. (British fans please note, Steve Grey is also nominated.)

Jim had never heard of him. "Who TF is Gilbert Le Duc?". Brian Last mentioned Jos LeDuc.

Event occurs at 36m15sec.  If I've got this right, it should go there automatically.

 

 

Feedback to Jim and Brian can be provided on this form.  (Keep it friendly.)

https://www.jimcornette.com/contact-us.html

[Phil Lions]

^ Thanks. I was going through Bob Plantin's blog yesterday and came across a pretty good article on Gilbert Leduc that summarizes well who he was. I'll get it translated and tweet it at some point in the next few days. I'll make sure to tag Brian and Jim too.

Meanwhile, a few additional nuggets of information that I've just come across:

According to an article I saw, the original Der Henker was Johnny Stein, then Freddy Robert got the gimmick, and finally in the early 1970s it was Remy Bayle. Before that in the first half of the 1960s Bayle had done another masked gimmick - Le Justicier du Ring (a L'Ange Blanc rip-off which, it seems, a few guys worked as over the years).

Luna Catch 2000 was created by... Ted Lamar (real name Albert Lafeuille). Lamar's other notable accomplishment was being Jean Ferre's opponent in Ferre's debut match.

La Bête Humaine in the 1971 footage was Nick Sanders (real name Paul Papayre from Bordeaux). Sanders had a rugby background (which Bob Plantin had also mentioned to me in the past). He was brought to Paris and managed by Paul Marton. The Hungarian Paul Marton was one of the men behind the number two French promotion back in the 1930s (based out of Elysee-Montmartre). In the second half of the 1940s he took over as promoter at Salle Wagram. He was also the one who brought Gilbert Leduc into pro wrestling. Eventually in the 1950s Maurice Durand took over Salle Wagram and I had figured that meant Marton was out of the scene altogether, but apparently not - he was still active in Paris in the early 1970s.

I'm not sure of the year (definitely before 1973) but apparently at one point there was a Guy Mercier vs. Kamikaze match on TV in France where Kamikaze ended up unmasking and was revealed as Modesto Aledo indeed. Well, sort of. His face was actually painted up so you couldn't really tell it was him but according to an article I saw it was him.

[David Mantell]

22 minutes ago, Phil Lions said:

I'm not sure of the year (definitely before 1973) but apparently at one point there was a Guy Mercier vs. Kamikaze match on TV in France where Kamikaze ended up unmasking and was revealed as Modesto Aledo indeed. Well, sort of. His face was actually painted up so you couldn't really tell it was him but according to an article I saw it was him.

 

Do we know if Modesto and/or "Benny" were either/both of the two French Kamikazes?  The Spanish version of the gimmick had a very different look to it from the French version, although they both did the crouching down in the corner thing:

The next stage on from the above tag match was a Der Henker versus Gilbert LeDuc singles match which I intend to do on here ASAP. Probably that plus the Mychel match are the ones I would send to Jim and Brian as specimens (they might find the Mychel match a bit "dry" as they would put it.) Then again maybe there's a load of 50s/60s G Le D matches I need to check out.

So you are in contact with Jim and Brian?  Please do post on this thread from 2023 - I'd love to hear Jim's thoughts on this.

(If anyone on here wants to chip in on that last subject, please do so on that thread, not on this one! Thank you.)

[Jetlag]

I think Gilbert Leduc vs Rocco Lamban would be a good introduction for US fans, since it has the clear story with Rocco Lamban working the chokehold and some escalation with Leduc trying to bite his ear off. Not that Jim Cornette cares I think, his podcast is pretty much just pure rage porn with the occasional tidbit about older wrestlers that Jim knew.

[David Mantell]

4 hours ago, Jetlag said:

Not that Jim Cornette cares I think, his podcast is pretty much just pure rage porn with the occasional tidbit about older wrestlers that Jim knew.

I think he's entirely on the money about how rotten the current state of US wrestling is, and I'd rather experience the current scene through the safety filter of listening to him and Brian talk about it than actually directly  inflict WWE or AEW on myself by watching them, but that's another discussion for another thread.

[David Mantell]

9 hours ago, David Mantell said:

The next stage on from the above tag match was a Der Henker versus Gilbert LeDuc singles match which I intend to do on here ASAP

Okay here goes. No sign of any previous review on here.

The man in the mask meets the man with the belt. Not too clear at the start of this was a title match - if so there would be a bit more pomp and ceremony, see Jean Ferre's title win over Franz Van Buyten, or the end of Gilbert Vs Mychel. This starts with a Gilbert promo but don't get too excited, it's a down to Earth Bon getting buttonholed on his way into the ring, hecsays he thinks he has what it takes to win. We shall see. 

Gilbert is a lot spryer than he seemed in the Mychel bout. He undoes wrist levers turning this way and that. He does get caught in an overhead double wristlock and rolls between mat and standing, looking for an escape. Eventually he does the very French Scisseax Volees takedown but Henker easily escapes.  Henker actually has quite a style of his own, blocking throws and attempts at holds quite a lot, it is hard work for Le Duc to get a rear chancery snapmares on him, Henker arrests the momentum pushing down hard on his knee.  He prevents Gilbert escaping a straight arm scissor by moving one foot further down LeDuc's chest. LecDuc does his toupee to escape the hold.  In the past I have used the term toupee to refer purely to the Édouard Carpentier crossed headscissor version. I stand corrected. That is Gilbert's next move and he does pull it off twice despite Henker grasping his knees. 

Henker slides this down into an unlocked figure 4 then into the sitting leglock before finally dumping the science and getting out the Mechant style of Henry Penny (sorry) with some closed fist punches to get the crowd angry.  Gilbert gets an Indian Deathlock. Agrees stalemate. Gilbert accidentally knocks over the ref while making his point. He gets an Avertisement but takes it in his stride.  Henker gets another top double wristlock, illegal throttle and legal pressure points hold.  Glbert gets more like the Mychel bout now. Side healocks etc. Hener gets in a slam which Gilbert sells heavily. 

Twelve minutes from the end Gilbert goes for the mask but the ref saves it. Henker lands hard from an Irish whip and Gilbert follows in with an armlock.securedcwith an armscissors. Henker replies with a headscissors.  LecDuc twice tries his corkscrew toupee escape but to no avail, Henker turns the scissors over and applies pressure.  Third time, he pulls his head out.  He tries the mask but L'Arbitre will have none of it. Henker gets back his armlock. He puts his foot on Le Duc 's head to secure the arm. He gets a slam in then goes back to the arm. Le Duc overpowes with an  armlock of his own into a  hiptoss.  Henker holds on and gets in a slam.   LeDuc gets another hiptoss. Henker throws off a LeDud headscissor like a Brit.    Henker gets two forearms, an overhead press slam and drop. He goes a bit wild pulling hair and L'Arbitre tells him off.  

Henker gets a 2 count and Manchettes Gilbert around. Le Duc retaliates and it becomes what Kent Walton would decry as a Forearm Smashing Contest.(Cornette is no fan of these either, although these two do at least sell the effects, falling down from the blows.  Gilbert gets a cross press and pinto win the belt and gets the belt put on him. No flowers so probably not a championship match. No attempt is made to get the defeated Henker to unmask, he just mills around with other officials. He'll live to fight another day, complete with his Cagoule.

Yes, I like this and I'm getting into LeDuc although I guess these are his later years.

 

[Phil Lions]

On 11/24/2024 at 2:58 PM, Phil Lions said:

I was going through Bob Plantin's blog yesterday and came across a pretty good article on Gilbert Leduc that summarizes well who he was. I'll get it translated and tweet it at some point in the next few days.

Here it is. Written by Claude Rocca. I made a few minor edits and added some notes [in brackets], but other than that everything is as Rocca wrote it. I do get a sense of some exaggeration at times, but honestly that is to be expected given how French wrestlers tend to view the glory days of catch and Leduc in particular. Either way, I think it's a nice little summary of Leduc.
 

Quote

Gilbert Leduc, wrestler and gentleman

Dear readers, let me introduce you to the life of one of the most famous wrestlers in the history of French catch [pro wrestling]: Gilbert Leduc. A true "gentleman", a favorite of all audiences, and a man so gifted in the ring that he remained World champion for over twenty years.

In the ring, no one had as much class as him. He was simply nicknamed "the gentleman", and it suited him like a glove. It must be said that Gilbert Leduc had everything going for him: a good look, charisma, charm, money... In his book "La Vérité sur le catch" [The Truth about Catch], Jean Corne, a wrestler of the time, was full of praise for Gilbert: "It is difficult to make a ranking and to distribute places but I think we can all agree that Gilbert Leduc was the best pro wrestler that France has ever known."

Like many pro wrestlers of the time, Gilbert Leduc started out in amateur wrestling and remains one of the best today for achieving excellent physical condition. Leduc also had a very honorable career [as an amateur], even becoming champion of Paris, a highly prized title. But the young man dreamed of something else. The Second World War had just ended, and all dreams were allowed in a France that needed new heroes. It was not an easy time, the country had to be rebuilt, but people needed hope above all. In the wrestling world, people were starting to talk seriously about a new discipline, catch, which brought together thousands of spectators, particularly at the Palais des Sports, with the names of Deglane and Poilve on the program.

Gilbert Leduc first tried his hand at boxing, but did not find his calling. However, when he entered a wrestling gym for the first time, he discovered his true vocation. He launched his professional career in 1948 [1945], and quickly revolutionized the sport.

Gilbert did indeed very quickly become a huge star! This man had elegance... More than that, I would say that he had a presence. He was noticed everywhere he went. Women were all crazy about him... Gilbert was actually married four times. But that's not the most important thing. Very quickly - if my memory serves me right, I think it was in March 1950 - he won the title of World champion. And hold on tight, he would only lose it in... 1975!

Would you like to know the secret of Leduc's longevity? First, you should know that his style was inimitable. For example, he was very famous for one of his clearance maneuvers, which he called "la toupie" [the spinning top]. When he found himself stuck on the mat, with a scissors swing at head level Gilbert Leduc emerged from it with his head resting on the ground and his body vertically, whirling around on himself. He was the only one who could turn like this four and a half times. Imitators were always far from the mark. Having seen this several times, I can tell you that it was impressive!

I crossed paths with this great champion a few years after I started my career. It must have been around 1967. Leduc had several years of wrestling behind him, and was still a huge star. He shared the top of the card with guys like Delaporte, Duranton, L'Ange Blanc... He was also quite as respected by fans as by the wrestlers in the locker room. It must be said that he was what is called a "shooter" - a guy who could literally break an opponent if they had the bad idea of refusing to cooperate in the ring. It's quite simple, Gilbert had a strength that would take your breath away... In every sense of the word!

Gilbert Leduc ended his career in the 1980s. He had accomplished everything a wrestler could dream of doing, and turned the page. But his face will remain for me, and for many others, synonymous with the golden age of pro wrestling in France. During almost his entire career, wrestling was indeed among the most popular sports in France, only surpassed by football and boxing. Gilbert Leduc was a real star, who was stopped by his fans as soon as he went out in the street

P.S. Gilbert Leduc was not only a huge star in France. He also performed outside our borders, particularly in Spain, where entire crowds traveled to watch his matches. The population saw him as a French hero, a gentleman in the ring, as well as outside. He was very often invited to the greatest palaces, or to attend the greatest events. One could thus come across Gilbert Leduc in the front row of prestigious bullfights. General Franco even insisted on meeting him during one of his tours in Spain.

P.P.S. Since he was the biggest wrestling star in France, Gilbert Leduc logically earned the biggest salaries. When, at the time, an average salary for a match was around 200 francs, Gilbert could earn between 5,000 and 8,000 francs! But it was not stolen, quite the contrary, since his name alone could bring hundreds and hundreds of spectators anywhere in France. As a result, Gilbert was known for his taste for beautiful things. He always descended into the greatest hotel in the city where he was staying. Few people know that Gilbert Leduc also held a pilot's license. So, when he had to wrestle away from home, he would rent a personal plane, take a few wrestlers with him, and fly to his next destination! Gilbert had even gone so far as to release his own brand of champagne, which bore his name. No other product would have suited him better... He was a true lord, who burned at both ends.

[David Mantell]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1188513425037928/posts/1617675022121764/
 

Quote

Bonjour à tous,

je suis étudiante en journalisme et j'écris actuellement un papier de presse écrite sur l'histoire du catch en France et sur son regain de popularité sur ses dernières années ! Est-ce que l'un des membres du groupe accepterais de m'accorder une courte interview au téléphone dans le semaine ? (l'article ne seras pas publié, cela restera dans le cadre scolaire)

Merci d'avance pour votre aide !!

Quote

hello to all,

I'm a journalism student and I'm currently writing a press paper written about the history of wrestling in France and its regaining popularity in its recent years! Would any of the group members be willing to do a short phone interview with me this week? (the article will not be published, it will remain in the academic framework)

Thanks in advance for your help!!

I've sent Lilia a link to this thread.  Perhaps we can help.

[David Mantell]

A dream clean match for early 60s Catch Francais - but taking place on the other side of the Pyrenees down in Madrid, Spain.  Eleven years before the CIC's closure and one year before it cut back to just Madrid and Barcelona, leaving Southern Spain and Portugal "Dark" just as Italy went Dark too. (The North of Spain would be fought over by French and German promoters up to he late 80s before Vince properly reactivated Spain and Italy- but left Greece to wither and die).

It's a cinema newsreel snippet, mainly focussing on one particular female fan.  Action shown is mainly high spottd, fortunately including two of Gilbert's famous toupees ( one escape from headscissors and one headscissor throw. Also a brief Manchette battle with Ange doing a nifty scissor chop.

Would love to see this bout in full, I wonder if the raw footage is out there.

[Phil Lions]

On 11/21/2024 at 11:06 PM, Phil Lions said:

"Les Organisations Raoul Paoli" or "Raoul Paoli Promotions", if you prefer its English-language equivalent. Here it is on a poster from 1934:


In the 1950s Paoli's promotion merged with Goldstein's promotion and eventually that became "Fédération Internationale de Lutte de Combat" (FILC). Here it is on a poster from 1961 down at the bottom:

As part of my research I've been going through old French posters and programs and just got to this one. Here's an excellent example from an autumn 1957 program for Palais des Sports:



"Raoul Paoli promotes the 1957-1958 season of CATCH under the regulations of FILC". This sentence is a perfect illustration of how things worked in France (1940s-1980s) when it came to promotional names. Names of promotions didn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. It was never "FFLP presents" or "FFCP presents" . It was always such and such promoter or venue presents CATCH under the regulations of such and such federation. The promotional names were never the focal point and the shows were never pushed as a FFLP show, a FFCP show, etc. like we're used to pro wrestling shows being presented in the past few decades. The promotional names were just used as the governing bodies that supposedly set the rules. Hardly anyone remembers or cares about those names. If you were to ask older French wrestlers what promotion they worked for they'd never say "I worked for FFLP, FFCP, etc." They'd say "I worked for Delaporte, Goldstein, etc." or the name of the venue. And I don't think the fans cared about the promotional names either. The press sure didn't.

That said, some of those promotional names started out as legit governing bodies, but that's another topic for another day.

[Phil Lions]

At one point the Paris audiences were so spoiled for choice it's not even funny. This particular example is a bit out of the norm, but still. Check this out. Just came across it.

Picture this scenario. It's February 9, 1958. A Sunday. You happen to be in Paris and you realize that in the afternoon there's not one, not two, not three, but four catch shows happening at the same time (3:30 pm starting time for three of the shows and 3 pm for the final one). Which one do you go to? So many choices!

Palais de la Mutualite:
1. Jean Rabut vs. Roland Daumal
2. Jacky Corn vs. Eric Husberg
3. Franz Orlik vs. Lino Di Santo
4. Jose Tarres vs. Robert Gastel
5. Hermann Iffland vs. Liano Pellacani

Lancry Arena:
1. Jean Fryziuk vs. Gilbert Cesca
2. Yanek Anski vs. Ferdinand Bauer
3. Georges Gueret vs. Arabet Said
4. Al Hayes vs. Yves Amor
5. Roger Delaporte vs. Serge Gentilly

Elysee-Montmartre:
1. Henri Le Mao vs. Jacques Couderc
2. Johnny Morandi vs. Marc Gaillard
3. George Kidd vs. Guy Laroche
4. Roger Laroche vs. Claude Montourcy
5. Robert Duranton vs. Jose Arroyo

Stadium:
1. Berrigaud vs. Henri Cointepas
2. Robert Moine vs. Gaston Maujean
3. Inca Peruano vs. Jo Labat
4. Pierre Boss vs. Warnia de Zarzecki
5. Gilbert Leduc vs. Tommy Mann