Questions

[Guest Some Guy]

In WWE they used to protect people's finishers and signature moves. In the last few years it seems like they do so on a case by case basis. Booker wasn't allowed to use the Bookend and it was mocked by JR when he did.

 

So why is it that Angle was allowed to use the rolling Germans? I know Benoit was injured, but I didn't see a Pedigree on TV during HHH's injury.

 

Why does Cena use a fireman's carry slam as his finish instead of a DVD? Safety reasons?

 

Why does everybody in the company use a spinebuster? And why does JR say that Batista's is "shades of Arn Anderson" when they are different moves? HHH does AA's version. I know the Spinebuster craze started when Rock began using his, then Austin started, HHH, etc... Same goes for Benoit bringing the hard chops to WWF in 2000. I don't ever remember Austin, HHH, HBK, Rock, etc... using chops before they feuded with Benoit, but rather than leaving the chops for him they kept on doing them in other matches. Does Vince realize that this waters down the product? Everybody more of less has the same moveset. This is wrestling, not the NFL, it shouldn't be a "copy cat league".

 

What didn't they like about Kanyon?

 

Why didn't someone put their foot down during the Invasion and force the WWF guys to sell for WCW?

 

What's Vince's problem with Heymen? Why does he keep getting demoted? Doesn't Vice realize that if it weren't for Heymen that Attitude never would have happened and that he is making a bunch of money selling DVDs on Heymen's creation?

 

Why are wrestlers allowed to refuse to job? What the hell could they do if they were forced to? If they sandbag a match and act like children Vince should fire them and take them back when they decided to be adults and do business properly. It's not like the wrestlers have anywhere else to go.

[Guest The Metal Maniac]

So why is it that Angle was allowed to use the rolling Germans? I know Benoit was injured, but I didn't see a Pedigree on TV during HHH's injury.

I think the logic is that it is a very amateur-style move, so it fits Angle's character perfectly; but I still think it's fucking stupid.

 

Why didn't someone put their foot down during the Invasion and force the WWF guys to sell for WCW?

Probably because Vince didn't want WCW to look good in the first place.

 

What's Vince's problem with Heymen? Why does he keep getting demoted?

As far as I know, Heymen is quick to point out things that he thinks are shit, and Vince doesn't always like hearing that.

 

Why are wrestlers allowed to refuse to job?

Well, while these days it doesn't apply so much, if a guy like Austin said that he didn't wanna job back in 2000, there wasn't much Vince could do. I mean, he COULD fire him, but then he'd literally have been handing over the biggest star he had to WCW.

 

I think some guys get it written into their contracts that they can refuse jobs if they think it's necessary, but you're right for the most part. I don't think guys should be allowed to say no, except in outlandish situations (like, if Vince told Batista he was jobbing to Rhyno on RAW, I think Batista should have every right to say "fuck no").

[Loss]

In WWE they used to protect people's finishers and signature moves.  In the last few years it seems like they do so on a case by case basis.  Booker wasn't allowed to use the Bookend and it was mocked by JR when he did.  

 

So why is it that Angle was allowed to use the rolling Germans?  I know Benoit was injured, but I didn't see a Pedigree on TV during HHH's injury.

This always bugged me too.

 

Why does Cena use a fireman's carry slam as his finish instead of a DVD?  Safety reasons?

Presumably. WWE has overreacted to the huge number of injuries to the roster in 2001 by toning things down to a point where they barely want wrestlers bumping.

 

Why does everybody in the company use a spinebuster?  And why does JR say that Batista's is "shades of Arn Anderson" when they are different moves?

Probably because Arn Anderson is a road agent, and he lays out all these matches to include spinebusters.

 

HHH does AA's version.  I know the Spinebuster craze started when Rock began using his, then Austin started, HHH, etc...  Same goes for Benoit bringing the hard chops to WWF in 2000.  I don't ever remember Austin, HHH, HBK, Rock, etc... using chops before they feuded with Benoit, but rather than leaving the chops for him they kept on doing them in other matches.  Does Vince realize that this waters down the product?  Everybody more of less has the same moveset.  This is wrestling, not the NFL, it shouldn't be a "copy cat league".

The mindset in WWE is that everyone should wrestle the same style. I don't understand that at all, but that's the company logic. Vince doesn't really think about the in-ring style at all. I think he's more into creating gimmicks and coming up with "funny" skits. HHH has too much influence is the answer to your question, basically.

 

What didn't they like about Kanyon?

They didn't like the lisp, and I think besides that, he was one of many casualties of the inVasion.

 

Why didn't someone put their foot down during the Invasion and force the WWF guys to sell for WCW?

Vince initially had the right idea, but Kevin Dunn put his own foot down in a production meeting and argued that they worked hard to get the WWF roster over and they shouldn't have them doing a bunch of jobs to guys that aren't proven and killed the company they worked for. That logic stuck, and many blame him for the failure of the whole thing.

 

What's Vince's problem with Heymen?  Why does he keep getting demoted?

Vince likes Heyman, but Stephanie can't stand him. Heyman was demoted this time around because he was caught in a lie. He was listening in on a conference call where he wasn't authorized to listen. The rationale was that they couldn't work with someone they couldn't trust.

 

Doesn't Vice realize that if it weren't for Heymen that Attitude never would have happened and that he is making a bunch of money selling DVDs on Heymen's creation?

Good question.

 

Why are wrestlers allowed to refuse to job?  What the hell could they do if they were forced to?

There are cases, like Bret Hart in 1997, where wrestlers are asked to do things that would kill them and are right to refuse. I think the mindset is that you want your top guys happy and willing to deliver at all times, so you do as much as you can to appease them. They know if they force them into angles they don't want to do on a regular basis, they're not going to come across well because the wrestlers aren't going to put their all into it.

 

If they sandbag a match and act like children Vince should fire them and take them back when they decided to be adults and do business properly.  It's not like the wrestlers have anywhere else to go

Yes. I haven't seen any of this behavior in the company, though, unless it's Bob Holly shooting on Rene Dupree, and I believe Holly was told if it happened again, he'd be fired.

[Coffey]

This is off-topic, but I've always wanted to see an old wrestler come in and teach and young up-and-comer some of his old moves.

 

For example, for a long time, I wanted to see Mr. Perfect show up and "train" Val Venis. Then Venis could've started using the floatover neckbreaker and stuff. It would've been a reason to give him a push. It would've made more sense for him to do a Fisherman Suplex.

 

Then Mr. Perfect died.

 

Now I have illusions that Greg Valentine will show up and push down/turn his shin guard in a vignette teaching some wrestler how to apply more pressure to the Figure-Four Leglock.

 

Hell, even if it was something as simple as Lex Luger telling Chris Masters to use the Torture Rack.

 

You don't know how bad I want to see Rick Martel show up and then Rene Dupree start using a Boston Crab.

[Guest Cam Chaos]

1. When Angle started using them, Benoit was out of action. When he returned, I'm sure Benoit wanted to say something, but going to managment to tell them to tell Angle not to use his spot when Angle was on the up and up while Benoit was a mid-carder... well, I guess Benoit figured it was best not to tell managment what to do when he wasn't exactly the reason arenas sold out and is not a WWE throughbred like Angle is.

 

They don't allow any head dropping moves or slams that may injure the neck given how many workers have bad backs and necks. Which is why Cena's finisher looks shit. Only Undertaker and Kane may drop people on their heads and that's largely because they are so tall (or in Kane's case, have lifts that make them taller) if they hold around the waist of their opponent it's very unlikely their head will actually make contact with the mat. I believe the Austin?Owen incident made them pull back on using such moves but Hunter's "stinger" at Taker's hands a couple of years back ensured they became virtually unseen in the WWE.

 

It's a power move and a good counter spot when someone is running the ropes. Arn's spinebuster was a spin around one, HHH does it still. Any other Spinebuster is not a AA style one. As for spinebusters and chops being over used, they are an acceptable part of the WWE style. I guess.

 

I believe Kanyon didn't have "the look", also his minor speech impediment and accent didn't do him any favours. Yes, he may have been an innovative and exiciting worker, but I think guys like Christ Masters and Batista prove that's not really what the WWE cares for.

 

Because no one wanted to lose their jobs by daring to tell the boss what to do. they may have blew millions in potential revenue, but it was Vince's to blow and no one had the balls to say anything.

 

Vince wants yes men, Heyman is not one of them. Same reason Cornette is down in OVW rather than on the booking team. Vince doesn't want to be called on his bullshit choices, he wants them praised. Which is why we got Katie Vick on TV (Apparently HHH thought it was all hilarious).

 

The only wrestlers able to refuse jobs are those making lots of money for the company. If they can argue it will affect their marketability or the actual product, then sometimes plans will change. I think it has less to do with folding and obeying them and more the potential loss of merchandise sales and popularity of one of their prime assets. If they argue a job would hurt the business or their appeal, it's more likely yo get them out of jobbing.

[Guest The Metal Maniac]

I believe the Austin?Owen incident made them pull back on using such moves but Hunter's "stinger" at Taker's hands a couple of years back ensured they became virtually unseen in the WWE.

This always confused the hell out of me.

 

Undertaker almost cripples HHH, so piledrivers are all banned.

 

And now, in 2005, only one guy can use a piledriver, and it's THE SAME GUY WHO CAUSED THE BAN IN THE FIRST PLACE.

[Guest Cam Chaos]

I think some guys get it written into their contracts that they can refuse jobs if they think it's necessary, but you're right for the most part. I don't think guys should be allowed to say no, except in outlandish situations (like, if Vince told Batista he was jobbing to Rhyno on RAW, I think Batista should have every right to say "fuck no").

Those are creative control clauses. Very few contracts post 2000 have them, simply because managment only gave wrestlers control to try sway them to sign. I think the last contract to have that written in was actually HHH's in '98 when he got a pay rise and CC clause to make sure he didn't jump to WCW.

 

This always confused the hell out of me.

 

Undertaker almost cripples HHH, so piledrivers are all banned.

 

And now, in 2005, only one guy can use a piledriver, and it's THE SAME GUY WHO CAUSED THE BAN IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Two, actually. And Kane gave Snitsky one recently. I remember in the eighties/early nineties standard piledrivers were often seen and sometimes executed under more dangerous situations (Foley's pulling piledriver through tables for example). The last time any piledrivers were used as less than a finisher to my knowledge was Austin vs Angle where Austin drove him onto concrete, no less. Two guys, both with bad necks, dropping the other one headfirst mere inches from concrete. Very smart, no?

 

Also, a stinger isn't "almost crippling". I've had a few in my time while training and they are more a mild numbness for a few minutes due to the shock to your spinal nerve. Not crippling, you just aint going anywhere for 3-4 minutes until your brain sorts your nervous system out again. Now if he'd got compressed vertebrae, then I'd understand the ban; Vince doesn't want his 6'+ headliners looking less impressive due to the carelessness of others.

 

I think they should at least let RVD take them. He used to sell them like Rock sold Stunners, jumping halfway across the ring post impact.

 

Yes. I haven't seen any of this behavior in the company, though, unless it's Bob Holly shooting on Rene Dupree, and I believe Holly was told if it happened again, he'd be fired.

Between screwing BB, stomping Matt on Tough Enough, trying to stiff and sandbag Lesnar on SD and beating the shit out of and swinging a chair at Dupree's head at a house show, if he hasn't been fired yet, I doubt he ever will be. He is the third longest contracted wrestler behind Michaels and Taker so I think Vince keeps him around out of tenure rather than respect for his talents these days. Plus I remember reading Vince doesn't get behind wrestlers unless he believes they could kick his ass, and given Holly's conduct, he should have job security until he's an even greater embarassment to the company.

[Guest Hunter's Torn Quad]

No current WWE wrestler has creative control written into their contract. Given that it would give the person a written legal right to refuse a request to job, and what happened when he gave Bret Hart that right, Vince does not give such a right unless he absolutely has to. The last person in WWE to have such a right actually in their conract was Goldberg. Certain top wrestlers do have a measure of influence over what happens to them, but such a right isn't in their contract.

[Guest The Metal Maniac]

You know, I never really was sure what a stinger was until now. All I knew was that it involved the neck, and was bad.

[Guest Some Guy]

No current WWE wrestler has creative control written into their contract. Given that it would give the person a written legal right to refuse a request to job, and what happened when he gave Bret Hart that right, Vince does not give such a right unless he absolutely has to. The last person in WWE to have such a right actually in their conract was Goldberg. Certain top wrestlers do have a measure of influence over what happens to them, but such a right isn't in their contract.

Goldberg had creative control and still allowed himself to be booked that badly? You think he could have atleast vetoed the wig thing with Goldust.

[Guest Cam Chaos]

He probably had limited creative control, so he could choose who he was booked against, how and in what kind of match, but had little control of his out of ring actions. He has said that moment in particular was something he didn't feel comfortable participating in during interviews after his WWE tenure, but has also suggested his hands were tied to an extent. I guess only the WWE and Bill know the details.

[Guest Hunter's Torn Quad]

The creative control covered pretty much everything, including skits and the like.

[Guest Some Guy]

So why did he allow himself to be used in the manner he was and then start bitching about it after he left?

[Guest Hunter's Torn Quad]

Because he didn't want to rock the boat, and just wanted to get along. But after doing so much crap that he didn't like, but went along with to be a team player, he said enough was enough, and vetoed some stuff.

[sek69]

So basically WWE creative makes people do stupid shit until they finally get sick of it and start vetoing stuff, which leads them to get labeled as a troublemaker and not a team player?

[Guest Hunter's Torn Quad]

Almost anyone who complains invariably get labelled as not being a team player.

[Guest TheShawshankRudotion]

Don't forget that the WWE wrestlers are not employees of the WWE, they are independent contractors, which means the WWE has little control over what they do. The wrestlers, under that description, should have a lot more power than they do when it comes to their own performance. So thinking its unfair for wrestlers to refuse to do jobs isn't taking the whole picture into consideration.