WCW Invasion

[El-P]

I won't go through the Invasion stuff. I suffered enough already.

[Guest The Jiz]

The buyrate that the Invasion PPV got even with the WCW dweeb crew is indication enough that people were absolutely into the idea initially.

Yes, but this is a rightly accepted fact. But the question is not whether interest existed; rather, to what extent did the mental image of WWF v. WCW match reality such that there was more than 3 months of sustainability given that only Flair, Hogan, Goldberg, and Steiner mattered - and Hogan and Flair were going to be short-term draws at best whereas Steiner had interest but proven drawing power, and WCW did a great job of killing Goldberg's. So the WWE's booking strategy in order to justify that increase in talent costs would have depended on presenting bought WCW as close to 1998 WCW. I claim, perhaps wrongly, that the WCW brand was so stigmatized by that point that the invasion angle had n long-term viability and as such it was wiser to introduce WCW top attractions incrementally rather than suffer from those overhead costs at the expense of WWE midcarder acts like Jericho who could someday draw.

 

To another poster, the Radicalz were out. Eddie was fired at the beginning of the year, Benoit was out mid year, Malenko had retired, and no one cared about Saturn.

[BrickHithouse]

I think it could've worked had they been willing to put more heat on the heels of WCW. Like, try to avoid having DDP job to Mrs. Taker and make Booker T and the rest of the crew more ruthless vicious bastards. Then strongly consider bringing in one or two of the big contract guys a little sooner.

 

I don't think any of those top WCW guys would have been impossible to build back up in relative short order.

[Guest The Jiz]

I think it could've worked had they been willing to put more heat on the heels of WCW. Like, try to avoid having DDP job to Mrs. Taker and make Booker T and the rest of the crew more ruthless vicious bastards. Then strongly consider bringing in one or two of the big contract guys a little sooner.

 

I don't think any of those top WCW guys would have been impossible to build back up in relative short order.

Yes, draw or not, jobbing out DDP was very petty. I feel like his age was held against him too. Maybe they were right as DDP didn't last long. Rico faced a similar issue despite rave reviews from OVW.

[Loss]

The buyrate that the Invasion PPV got even with the WCW dweeb crew is indication enough that people were absolutely into the idea initially.

Yes, but this is a rightly accepted fact. But the question is not whether interest existed; rather, to what extent did the mental image of WWF v. WCW match reality such that there was more than 3 months of sustainability given that only Flair, Hogan, Goldberg, and Steiner mattered - and Hogan and Flair were going to be short-term draws at best whereas Steiner had interest but proven drawing power, and WCW did a great job of killing Goldberg's. So the WWE's booking strategy in order to justify that increase in talent costs would have depended on presenting bought WCW as close to 1998 WCW. I claim, perhaps wrongly, that the WCW brand was so stigmatized by that point that the invasion angle had n long-term viability and as such it was wiser to introduce WCW top attractions incrementally rather than suffer from those overhead costs at the expense of WWE midcarder acts like Jericho who could someday draw.

 

To another poster, the Radicalz were out. Eddie was fired at the beginning of the year, Benoit was out mid year, Malenko had retired, and no one cared about Saturn.

 

I'm not sure it could have worked with just any names, but I think you're misunderstanding the argument being made, which is that the intrigue of WWF vs WCW was in the concept of promotion versus promotion more than Wrestler A versus Wrestler B. WCW wrestlers coming through the main entrance and having entrance music and a pre-produced Titantron video accompany their run-ins was not the element of danger that was needed that could have made this work. Lance Storm and Booker T as they were used of course weren't going to create a buzz. Lance Storm and Booker T laying out Steve Austin, The Rock and Undertaker with baseball bats, tear gassing the locker room, destroying the RAW set, buying television time to brag about their attacks, going on a massive winning streak and taking all the WWF titles? We don't know if it would have worked, because it wasn't tried. But no matter who was signed, that was the type of booking that was needed to make it effective, which tells me bringing in the big names would have been a waste of money, because they didn't have the balls to book outsiders that strong anyway.

[El-P]

I don't remember in which interview I heard it, but basically the guy said "If Vince McMahon wants to get something over, he'll get it over." And it's pretty much it. Look at HHH. It took years and years of push, feeding him the biggest star of the new golden days and being paired with the boss' daughter, but eventually he got over.

 

2001 WCW was not the promotion that had killed WWF in the ratings, but still, people remembered what WCW used to be, and if they only got Flair, Steiner (I mean Scott), Booker T, DDP, Konnan, Jarrett & Dustin (who were a known WWF figure too) from the get go with the support of guys like Awesome, Storm and a few cruiserweights that were "stars" like Rey & Kidman, with an agressive booking a-la nWo, of course it would have worked. And you could have make it last and bring up guys like they eventually did anyway with the nWo, Goldie and such.

 

Yeah, even when looking at what WCW had become, to me it's obvious it would have worked because everything is a matter of perception. The nWo worked with three people "invading" a promotion and wrecking havoc. WCW lead by Flair with the figureheads of DDP, Steiner & Booker on top supported by other cast members was enough to make it work, because it was fresh, and no matter what, watching WCW guys showing up on WWF TV was surreal in itself. There was so much that could have been done too with Jarrett & Dustin, disgruntled former WWF employees (not to mention Shane Douglas), X-Pac rejoigning the original nWo, the Radz getting thrown in the mix as "the guys who betrayed WCW" etc... The one thing that mattered was the will to do business and not stroke your ego. From the very first day, it was all about the McMahon name. The failure was already in the concept as early as the last Nitro.

[Dooley]

The other factor in the failure was the insecurity of the WWF locker room. It seemed like every one of them bitched and moaned at the idea of putting over a WCW guy. Where guys like Hardcore Holly got that sense of entitlement from is beyond me.

[Loss]

The other factor in the failure was the insecurity of the WWF locker room. It seemed like every one of them bitched and moaned at the idea of putting over a WCW guy. Where guys like Hardcore Holly got that sense of entitlement from is beyond me.

They bought into the work and truly thought these guys were showing up after trying to put the company out of business and rob them of a livelihood. People say Paul Heyman brainwashes, but Vince ain't too shabby.