The 2014 WrestleMania Weekend indie shows & conventions thread

[Bix]

I didn't go to New Orleans, but there were a few indie shows that appealed to me this weekend. The most interesting to me is the "Indy Supershow" tonight at WrestleCon (Masato Tanaka vs. Kevin Steen, Jeff Jarrett vs. Colt Cabana, & more), but that's not on IPPV, presumably because of the ROH and TNA talent on the show.

 

So that leaves me with Shimmer coming up in a few hours and the first Dragon Gate USA show last night. I had no interest in the DGUSA show until earlier this week. The Japanese Dragon Gate talent was cancelled because of visa issues, so Gabe had to try to put together a new card. The way it fell into place, the top three matches were the returning Low-Ki vs. Trent Barretta, Masato Tanaka (in town for WrestleCon/Indy Supershow) vs. Chris Hero, and DGUSA champ Johnny Gargano vs. Ricochet.

 

The undercard was, surprise Teddy Hart run-in aside, completely, irredeemably terrible. It was like any random low level indie wrestling undercard, just with very athletic guys who can fly around well. Nobody had any idea what they were doing.

 

Ki-Trent was really good. None of Ki's bad habits were visible and Trent is a very good, polished worker. The type of guy that's probably better for having been in WWE but most indie fans wouldn't admit it. Trent got real heat by doing little heel spots like boot scrapes after teasing big moves, and he even pinned Ki clean.

 

Tanaka-Hero was excellent, more or less the match you'd expect. Finish fell a little flat because the announcers and most of the fans didn't know Tanaka's "Sliding D" finisher. Show was well worth my $10 just for this match, as I had hoped.

 

I had no idea if I'd like Gargano-Ricochet but I really did; it was about as good as this type of flippy indie match can get. It built great and both guys were about a zillion times more polished than everyone on the undercard. Loved that Ricochet kicking out of a belt shot after a ref bump got the biggest pop of the night.

 

This made me somewhat more likely to want to get another DGUSA show but made it I will never, ever watch EVOLVE.

[MFoy]

I've only seen one DGUSA card in full: the one the night before WM 29, which I went to live. I haven't seen last night's show. I enoyed last year's card very much, but was also told it was well above average for DGUSA. Would you say the undercard was worse than most ROH undercards from the mid-2000s? I ask because I really enjoyed ROH from top to bottom in those days.

 

I've gotten the sense that the quality of indie wrestling has declined somewhat since the "glory period" of 2002-2009 (I probably stretched that out a little bit), but I haven't watched enough to know if that's just because my interest in it has passed or because it's actually worse.

[rovert]

I've gotten the sense that the quality of indie wrestling has declined somewhat since the "glory period" of 2002-2009 (I probably stretched that out a little bit), but I haven't watched enough to know if that's just because my interest in it has passed or because it's actually worse.

 

There's been a talking point kicking around that Indy wrestling has been homogenised by workers not studying tape as deeply as before. If you following any of the indy guys on Twitter they seem to only watch the shows they appear on and WWE. I get the impression there are very few of the Chris Hero ilk these days. You don't see much of the old tricks being pulled out of the moth balls instead it is the same redundant match done over and over up and down cards.

 

Alan has his own story to tell on it but he wrote on Twitter today about he spoke to Timothy Thatcher after his great and relatively unique match with Drew Gulak. Alan4L said Thatcher's eyes lit up when Alan mentioned UWFI. It is an anecdote but I think it has some value.

[Bix]

I've only seen one DGUSA card in full: the one the night before WM 29, which I went to live. I haven't seen last night's show. I enoyed last year's card very much, but was also told it was well above average for DGUSA. Would you say the undercard was worse than most ROH undercards from the mid-2000s? I ask because I really enjoyed ROH from top to bottom in those days.

Oh, it's no contest. ROH had good undercards. This was completely terrible.

[DR Ackermann]

I went to the DGUSA show last night and I hated it. I enjoyed 2 of the matches (Swan vs Busick, Hero vs Tanaka,) but they were nothing special. It was really cool to see Tanaka because I liked him a lot when I was a kid. The main event wasn't horrible and the Low Ki match was alright but never seemed to really get going. The rest of the show was complete trash. Teddy Hart's run in made no sense. He beat everyone up and after he left the match just went on. Way to put over his importance. The only thing worse than the show itself was the 'smart mark' crowd that kept making annoying douchey comments the whole show.

[DR Ackermann]

No one outside of the two matches I listed as being good knows what selling is.

[Bix]

Shimmer was a very good card overall. First two matches were iffy, but quick. Not a ton to say about it, but it was super enjoyable. Well, except for me, the feed stopped playing right before the main event finish and kicked be back to the "My Account" page with the "Watch Now" button for Shimmer gone. No reply yet from WWN Live support yet, either.

 

No one outside of the two matches I listed as being good knows what selling is.

What makes you say Ki vs. Barretta didn't have selling?

[W2BTD]

Hero/Tanaka was fantastic. MOTY contender for sure. Ricochet/Gargano was great as well. I liked Ki/Trent but it was a notch below the other two.

 

The Saturday show was the worst DGUSA show i've ever seen, and i've seen almost all of them. Dreadfully bad.

[DR Ackermann]

You're right. I forgot Low ki vs Barretta.

[SteveJRogers]

Odd ball question to ask on Sunday with everything but WM wrapped up, but what is everyone's opinions about indies and cons and other non-affiliated wrestling stuff happening literally in the same city area that WM is happening in? Or in general in cases like ROH in Pittsburgh the same weekend as Royal Rumble.

 

Part of me thinks it is a good thing for the industry as a whole. Especially in the case of WrestleMania weekend when the crowd is mostly general/causal/lapsed fans whom might get their curiosity piqued when hearing about this show on Friday night, or the listing of past greats at a convention on Saturday and such. Kind of a good way to say "HEY, PRO WRESTLING IS MUCH, MUCH MORE THAN VINCE MCMAHON'S PRODUCT!"

 

But on the flip side, I've heard negative opinions about all of it. That it is more or less leeching of someone else's product and fanbase in a competitive marketplace.

 

Unfortunately there isn't a football analogy, but I guess it would be if there was a rival league that plays in springtime (yeah I know, bad XFL and USFL flashbacks) had their kickoff weekend Super Bowl weekend and a game a market over from the Super Bowl host city (Philly probably would be a perfect example with this past January's Super Bowl in Met Life Stadium).

 

I really can't use the final series in hockey, basketball and baseball, but perhaps an independent minor league running a huge event/game in a smaller venue in the same city the day before those major sports' All-Star Game is probably a good analogy as well.

 

I guess since the WWE tolerates it, its not a big deal, and if they did try to shut them out the cries of monopoly would be heard all over the IWC, dirt sheets and every other place; but the idea of an indie, or a convention/autograph memorabilia show promoter running a gig that same weekend in the same city being hungry leeches more so than anything probably is just as good of a point than them just trying to get noticed.

[Mando]

I guess since the WWE tolerates it, its not a big deal, and if they did try to shut them out the cries of monopoly would be heard all over the IWC

 

Pretty sure I read an article awhile ago that effective next year (or 2016?) WWE has effectively put the kibosh on other companies doing this.

[W2BTD]

 

I guess since the WWE tolerates it, its not a big deal, and if they did try to shut them out the cries of monopoly would be heard all over the IWC

 

Pretty sure I read an article awhile ago that effective next year (or 2016?) WWE has effectively put the kibosh on other companies doing this.

 

 

Not really. They are trying to make it harder (especially for WrestleCon, who they are really mad at more than the wrestling shows), by locking up public buildings as part of the deal to bring Mania to whatever city, but they can't and never will be able to do a thing about private buildings. Sapolsky already has a building booked in California for next year.

 

I think it's petty. In my opinion, these fringe events have essentially zero impact on WWE business. WWE fans are going to go to the WWE stuff regardless. Very few people (as in, likely close to zero) are ditching HOF or Axxess for a small indie show they've never heard of. I personally believe the fringe events make WWE (and obviously the city) more money, because there are people who come to town who wouldn't have otherwise if it was just WWE events (I fit into this category, as i've been to multiple Mania cities, but would likely never go if not for the fringe stuff and never spend any money on WWE anyway).

[anarchistxx]

 

 

But on the flip side, I've heard negative opinions about all of it. That it is more or less leeching of someone else's product and fanbase in a competitive marketplace.

 

Half of the WWE roster these days comes from the indies. They are practically a feeder club for workers to learn their trade. I'm sure CM Punk and Daniel Bryan have made a lot of money for WWE, so they can't really complain about ROH or Dragon Gate using them for a temporary revenue boost. You could argue that it helps them in the long run.