Bigelow34 Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 In episode #9 of the Dangerous Alliance Wrestling Podcast, JT and Will tackle the following challenges as they dive into wrestling history: - Grudge Match: Will & JT are booking a supercard and Promoter Dan gives them wrestlers to argue between who should win in a one on one grudge match with Dan deciding who ultimately goes over! - Live Watch: In honor of September PPVs, the boys kick back and watch Brian Pillman vs. Johnny B. Badd at WCW Fall Brawl 1995! - Dangerous Five: Will, JT and Dan count down their favorite live wrestling experiences. - Mailbag! - The boys read answers questions from fans of the show. So, kick back and join JT & Will in the Alliance as they travel through the history of wrestling! http://placetobenation.com/dangerous-alliance-wrestling-podcast-9/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 Halfway through another great show. I loved the first fall although I backed JT every single time, even when he threw in the towel for himself on Doink. Pillman over Jericho is easy since Pillman's heel act seemed less forced than Jericho's over the last decade ('98 is good though) as did his babyface routine. He was constantly entertaining while Jericho has go away heat for me at this point. When the worst part of a guys career is the month before he died, I'd say that's a pretty good indicator of all-around quality. Shamrock over Sheamus is more because Sheamus does nothing for me at this point and I'm afraid he's going to cash in his case on Sunday. Shamrock vs. Finlay would have been a lot of tougher. But Finlay vs Bossman is easy. I LOVE Big Bossman. He's fun to watch and his agility is astounding for a big man. This would be the best match on the show, easily. Finlay's matches can be great, but I'm less likely to be able to sit back and enjoy when compared to Bossman vs. Perfect or Bossman vs. Vader. Doink vs. Goldust was a joke of a segment. Yes, Dustin is a great worker, but Goldust (at least in the '90s) hardly was. Compare the one big year of Borne Doink to Goldust's first year. It's not even close on match quality. I just watched Goldust and Bam Bam Bigelow bring the 1995 Survivor Series to a half. The evil clown was a much better gimmick than the quasi-homosexual film fanatic and the 1993 Summerslam segment with Doink/Bret/Lawler is better than anything Goldust did in WWF, even the Rhodes Brothers title win in 2013. Dustin vs. Borne is a different story, but that's not what was on the debate block. Bret vs. Cena is closer than I would have originally thought, but Bret wins every time. For Will to label Cena's adult/kid divide as evidence of his uniqueness is funny considering Bret had a hotter angle than Cena ever did with the USA/Canada divide. If Cena ever fully embraced the kids and moms and turned heel on adults, this might have a different result. As it is, even if you want to fudge the results and say their match quality is equal, Bret's character and legitimacy outweighs the last decade of boring Cena promos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 Some people like wrestlers. Others like cartoons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomethingSavage Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 I am absolutely on board for more of the Grudge Match segments in the future. Loved this concept. I found myself siding with Will on some & with Justin on others. Without going into too much detail, I'll just say that it plainly illustrates everything I dig about this podcast series. It's two guys with diverse backgrounds, links, and preferences in their pro wrestling. It'd be pretty monotonous if they both offered the same view and opinion on every guy, every character, and every match. Bret versus Cena is still the only one I haven't completely made up my mind about. There's something to be said about that '96 and '97 run for Bret, from a character standpoint, that seems worlds better than ANY character work we've ever seen out of Cena. The hero that is forever stuck on his high horse, pushing his own morals, unable to accept the way the world is changing around him, etc. It's just such a deep and fascinating deal.That's not to say I don't dig Cena's in-ring contributions. He's certainly got a longer list of "big time" matches. And the knock against Bret is about him working his ass off for the big stage but reserving his energy & coasting on the smaller shows. And I get that. But who's to say Bret wouldn't have kept it turned on if he had been put into more of those big time matches? It's just a different era. I take nothing away from Cena. He produces quality. He delivers quality. He's incredibly consistent. But he's working a schedule that allows him the opportunity to work a MUCH greater quantity of those "big time" matches than Bret got in his heyday. Who's to say Bret wouldn't hold himself to the same high standards and bust his ass on a weekly basis, if he were booked into the same main event matches on TV and PPV week in and week out? I can buy that. He just wasn't in an era where they geared things that way. Obviously, there's still a lot of other factors and variables to consider, but yeah. Every time I think I've settled on Bret, I go back to Cena. And vice versa. Definitely looking forward to more of these discussions though. Couldn't help but nod along in agreement when you guys were talking about favoring the appeal of organic, improvised, almost unorganized spots... versus the too-crisp, too-clean, ultra-polished dance rehearsal spots. It's not something that I'd demand above the safety of the performers first & foremost, but it's something that IMMEDIATELY stands out in a match when you get it. It's such an art to pull off a staged fight that carries a real sense of struggle and urgency to it. But enough rambling. All in all, another great episode, guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 Some people like wrestlers. Others like cartoons. Sounds like you'd love UFC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted September 20, 2015 Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 I love UFC. Ken Shamrock was boring as piss in UFC. Brock Lesnar was awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodear Posted September 20, 2015 Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 Way to shit on my question Will, damn man what I ever do to you? To be Flair to Flair, I asked it when you were just starting the show so I didn't get the feel of the program yet. Loved Grudge Match segment. I would have gone with Jericho, Sheamus, Bossman, Goldust, Cena. Jericho didn't have crippling injuries and to not put this delicately die in a hotel room. He's also relatively stable and can work up and down the card whereas Pillman never worked main events and wasn't going to be able to at any point in his career. Brian might be a better tag guy than single guy, but I don't think you lose too much with Jericho on that front as he has experience on that front as well. Sheamus is just out right better than Shamrock right now career to career and Sheamus still has years left in the tank. Shamrock does have an air of believability to him that Sheamus doesn't but I would rather have the stronger hand long term. Shamrock would also give you a bit more diversity to the line up but I think you can find that elsewhere with more upside. Bossman gives you the big fat guy you need in a promotion who can work heel or face. Great dynamic bumper with good strikes who can fill your mid card gatekeeper role at the drop of a hat. I think Will unfairly blames him for shitty 3 minute matches in the Attitude Era, but Bossman was sort of passed his prime by then anyway who was getting by with gaga and wacky super villainy. His first run with WWF and his initial charge into WCW were all quality. Finlay is great and a better worker, but Bossman has more intangilbles. Goldust has a lot more in the resume than Doink regardless of how good Borne was in the gimmick. Again, he fills out your mid card really well and can work with anyone. All time tag team worker who can step up to secondary titles and feuds easily. Cena draws more heat in countries not Canadian in nature consistently and is what you want in a kingpin position. Sells more merchandise, makes more stars, works harder on house shows, draws more mone, does more charity. Bret was better at finishes and working but main eventing isn't about that. Its about all the other stuff and Cena wins those battles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted September 20, 2015 Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 If Jericho vs. Pillman is the opening match, why do I care that Jericho has been a main eventer before? Goldust vs. Doink, I don't care about Dustin Rhodes vs. Matt Borne, I care about Goldust vs. Doink. Evil Doink was scary. Evil Goldust was confusing. Face Doink sucked. Face Goldust was eventually fun, but sucked in the '90s. And I have a bone to pick about Cena making more stars, because no he really doesn't. The US Challenge series had good matches, but none of those guys got a rub since they continued to win/lose on a 50/50 basis after. And it's not like Owens is a made man now after winning 1, losing 2 and then joining the mid card. The reason WWE seems so stale is because it's very rare for Cena to ever lose clean and make guys. Someone made a list after Owens beat him and I think it was something like Cena losing clean 4-5 times in the past 3 years or so.Yes, he has made guys look good, but can you ever imagine Bret treating a title loss like an afterthought? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigelow34 Posted September 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 Great discussion guys. I loved doing Grudge Match and it will certainly be in the rotation regularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted September 20, 2015 Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 Goodear... what was your question again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodear Posted September 21, 2015 Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 The wrestling metrics question which I can see as a long term discussion point but doesn't fit Dangerous Alliance. Honestly I don't think you can just answer the question off the top of your head. I've been thinking about it for a while and I don't have a complete handle on it nor an I convinced its actually possible to come up with statistics that will actually demonstrate "hey this was a good match" since so much of wrestling is intangible. Even wrestling's most well known statistic work rate is nebulous as "work" is never defined to my satisfaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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