Coffey Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Jeff Jarrett Vs. Rhyno video preview AJ Styles Vs. Samoa Joe video preview Christian Cage Vs. Monty Brown video preview AMW Vs. Team 3D video preview Sabu Vs. Abyss video preview Anyone else plan on watching this tonight? I'm actually looking forward to it. I'm going to watch it and then hopefully get home in time to catch the LAW. I think that TNA have done a better than average job of building to this PPV. I care about almost every match. I don't care about everyone in every match but I still want to see the outcomes of the matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Those video packages for Rhino on Thursday completely sold me on Jarrett/Rhino. Everything else looks fun for the most part. Could be in the running for best TNA PPV this year if everyone delivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 TNA's been very good at stacking their PPVs. The ratio of good to crap is much higher than the average WWE show and most of the time their crap is at least entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Even Destination X, which was by far the worst TNA PPV since they started, had several quality matches on it. It stuns me that smarks still shit all over TNA when the PPVs have so many good matches on it. Other than a few RoH shows and 1 NOAH show they've put out the best top to bottom shows this year as far as PPV goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Even Destination X, which was by far the worst TNA PPV since they started, had several quality matches on it. It stuns me that smarks still shit all over TNA when the PPVs have so many good matches on it. Other than a few RoH shows and 1 NOAH show they've put out the best top to bottom shows this year as far as PPV goes. I think some people don't want TNA to succeed because they're happiest when they have nothing but bad wrestling to grouse about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted December 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 I think some people don't want TNA to succeed because they're happiest when they have nothing but bad wrestling to grouse about. You know, that wouldn't shock me if it were true. Even back during the Monday Night Wars era when Raw and Nitro were both entertaining, the only things that anyone ever talked about were the negatives. It's sad really. As long as some fans have been watching wrestling and being entertained by it, you think they'd have a little bit more respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Maybe I'm too easy on wrestling companies, but I don't think any one group is all good or all bad. I usually can find something on RAW every week that entertains me, even if it's just a small segment in a show full of crap. It helps that I mark for Maria I guess, but hey entertainment is entertainment. An interesting side effect of the people I mentioned above is when you try to defend TNA you get accused of thinking they can do no wrong. I love what TNA's doing so far but I'm not going to say they do flawless entertainment either. I mean, sure when colossally bad things happen I expect people to bash, but sometimes I suspect folks just cherry pick when they look for bad news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest savagerulz Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 There are too many of the TNA wrestlers that seem "bush league". You can argue the point all day, but there's just something lacking in most of them. The effort is there from many (Monty Brown) and some are being booked very well (Samoa Joe) and some are being marketed very well (AJ Styles) but a host of TNA guys from their fucking CHAMP on down seem like they don't connect or have one and a half feet in the indies, still. Everyone as talent should be trying to find their "niche" on the show and the overall league. What is Austin Aires niche? Sonjay Dutt? TNA has a lot of guys who look the same in ring, who just ballet through their spots and seem to be holding serve waiting for the booking gods to bless them. Don't fucking work like that, not in the big leagues. Say what you want about AMW, for example, but at least I understand what they are doing there...heel team supreme in the league. And they act the part, brawling and making the face teams look good. Jarrett's a waste of space (as has been said many times over) not just because he's also-ran as talent, but because he doesn't SEEM like a heel champion. Heels champs that are surrounded by a contingent are supposed to seem like masterminds and cult-like leaders, not weasels with balsa guitars. For all his failings, at least Triple H worked and developed a main event persona. Jarrett is the fucking Honkytonk Man with a scowl, and that ain't SHIT. TNA has a number of things going for them: good announce team, good young stars, and a network that supports them. But they have the weakness of not being battle tested. The WWF has honed their craft. Even when they are shitty (like now) they are set apart from their competition not just through production standards and money, but understanding what it takes to put together a large crew of wrestlers that fans are interested in...again, they aren't running at levels they were five years ago, but they are still the standard. TNA is still doing bush league things, like having "surprise announcement" one after another to try and rally interest. You know what would really rally interest? Have a group of dynamic wrestlers to go along with better in ring action, and do consistently good shows for a while and people will catch up and find them. And quit doing so many fucking pay per views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted December 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 good announce team I agree with a lot of what you said but not the above quoted statement. It's been discussed a lot at various places but I can't get into the commentary. I can't get past the fact that Don West is bad. Yeah, he seems like he really cares about the product. He seems genuinely excited. He has "got better." That still doesn't make him good. I'll use the same example that I always use: it looks bad when West is as excited for an Amazing Red spot in the curtain jerk as he is for a World Title change in the main event. I think West brings a different perspective to the announce team, almost a marks perspective, but in order for him to work, I feel he'd be best as the third man in a commentary team. Just occasionally adding something in. Mike Tenay is a color commentator that's doing play-by-play. That's not a good thing either. He's out of posistion and it shows a lot when he's calling matches. Tenay should be doing color commentary. He can point out moves, storyline continuity, etc. Move West to the third man, Tenay to the color and look for a play-by-play guy. If they could do that, depending on whom the play-by-play man was, I could get behind the commentary. Of course, that's a problem as a whole in the industry today: there's not a lot of good play-by-play guys around. As of right now, second only to the Orlando crowd, the commentary is my least favorite thing about TNA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest savagerulz Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 I won't comment on West, but Tenay was dull as dishwater before, but guess what? He's pretty good now. I dare say he's better than most WWF commentators. He got better, learned what it took to be a lead announcer and found his groove. He took what he was good at (wrestling knowledge) and added his passion for the business and having pretty good timing to make himself a commentator worth being on a national show. In fact, his transition has been so seemless that no one really notices...another sign that someone outside of in-ring wrestling talent (meaning the refs, bookers or commentators) are doing their job. So I think he's stepped up. As for West, I don't know why but I just like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted December 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 HTQ likes West too. We've talked about it before over at TSM where I said basically the same shit I said here. I can see why people could like West because he's got a lot of passion. I can see why people might not like him too, because he's got too much passion. It's interesting what you say about Tenay. I haven't really noticed a change in him from when he was the third man on the WCW commentary team. That's part of the reason why I think he sticks out as being out of position to me. I hate his facial expressions too but that doesn't have anything to do with his play-by-play. Saying he's better than most WWF commentators doesn't have a lot of merit either since we all know they're carrying a lot of shit. Cole? Coach? C'mon. I will admit that Tenay has a lot of wrestling knowledge and probably a pretty big passion for the business but that can all still be expressed in the color side of the booth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest savagerulz Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Tenay was always about the "smartest" of the mainstream wrestling commentators. Even when going head up against Joey Styles, Tenay knew actual histories and the like rather than boasting he could pronounce the Japanese names of somebody's finisher (which was still a plus, don't think I'm bashing Joey here). It's just that in WCW he never really had a chance to show it, except as a gimmick when they were trying to create heat with Schiavone. His radio show week in and week out had long convinced me Tenay wasn't just some boring wrestling scholar, he actually had a personality (unlike say a Scott Hudson, who I respect to Hell and back but more boring than a CBS sitcom). A play by play man should be the guy who, if no one else is in the booth with him, can call the match and do a good job of doing so almost no differently than he would with the color guy sitting next to him, which Tenay does. He's absolutely at least as good as anyone else America has to offer in the PBP position right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted December 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Any of you guys actually watch the PPV? It actually kinda let me down. Same ol' in the main. Overbooked with Jarrett retaining. Joe/Styles is what you'd expect...pretty good. The barbed wire match used real wire and had some decent spots. Jeff Hardy no showed the preshow. Konnan turned on Road Dogg and Billy Gunn. Kanyon showed up to wrestle Raven and went by the name Chris K. He looked sloppy and out of shape. The Aries/Bentley Vs. Strong/Shelley match was comedy. Strong and Shelley were doing crazy backbreakers and double team moves and all this other shit, then Bentley random won with a fucking super kick. Sting wasn't there but the arena went black, they showed scorpions on the titantron and then Sting's boots, jacket and bat were on a chair in the middle of the ring. That was the "big announcement." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest savagerulz Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 That was the most overbooked main event I've ever read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 That was the most overbooked main event I've ever read. Emphasis on "read". Makes me wonder how many people base their opinions of PPVs (WWE ones too) on what someone who may have a bias wrote about it. I know there's been a lot of shows where I watch them then read someone's review and wonder if we watched different shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest savagerulz Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Emphasis on "read". Makes me wonder how many people base their opinions of PPVs (WWE ones too) on what someone who may have a bias wrote about it. I know there's been a lot of shows where I watch them then read someone's review and wonder if we watched different shows. How many people interfered during the end of the match? What's the definition of overbooked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Did you watch the show? Sometimes things that sound like an overbooked mess on paper or in type work when you actually see it. ECW was good at that, reading results of their shows would make my head spin but it tended to come off better when you saw it. I didn't watch the show, maybe it did come off as a mess, I'm going to hold off judgement until I actually see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest savagerulz Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Did I say I watched it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Obviously not, but you've already passed judgement on something you're apparenly admitting you didn't watch which pretty much says all that needs to be said for your credibility in a discussion of wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted December 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Jackie Gayda ran out and slapped Jarrett. Team Canada & D'Amore interfered (two of them helped Jarrett back to the ring before a ten count and D'Amore hit Rhyno with a hockey stick to set-up the finish). There was a ref bump. A lot of crowd brawling (although it wasn't a no DQ match). A guitar shot. It was certainly overbooked and came off on TV overbooked. It was a typical Jarrett main event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest savagerulz Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Bottom line: It was Rhino. If they wanted the belt on him he'd be holding it right now rather than losing it after one day. At the same time they want to keep him as a credible contender (which will be more important if they turn him heel and have him go after Sting first). In that instance, it's not NECESSARILY overbooking to have everything but the kitchen sink thrown in the way of the finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted December 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 What about every other Jarrett main event that's ended the exact same way? Ref bump, multiple run-ins, guitar shot. Are those not necessarily overbooked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 I'm no JJ fan, but aside from the guitar shots how is it different from the Horsemen saving Flair every week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest savagerulz Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 What about every other Jarrett main event that's ended the exact same way? Ref bump, multiple run-ins, guitar shot. Are those not necessarily overbooked? That's a good question. The answer is this: make someone your heel champion that is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted December 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 I'm no JJ fan, but aside from the guitar shots how is it different from the Horsemen saving Flair every week?Flair & The Horsemen didn't suck and had real heat?That's a good question. The answer is this: make someone your heel champion that is better.Ron Killings, Abyss or Samoa Joe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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