sek69 Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 I was watching the Angle/Orton/Rey WM match and I noticed how many boos Rey was getting. Every time he had an advantage on either guy, a big portion of the crowd would boo. Even Orton got some cheers (the RKO did at least). I think the WWE is seeing a shift in its audience, and it's just not with John Cena. The fans are starting to resist more when it comes to cheering and booing who the company wants them to, and like Loss said, this could be the beginning of a fairly large shift in how wrestling is operated if fans just stopped reacting the way the company wants. Loss mentioned how the WWE would be smart to notice how the fans are reacting and start adopting a "cheer or boo who you want" mindset rather than the face vs heel we're used to. I think we may be heading that way no matter if Vince likes it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 I don't really think there is a fundamental shift in the audience, it's just a backlash by the hardcore fans to bad and shortsighted booking by a company that really doesn't know where it's heading or what it's doing. Really Rey being booed shouldn't be that surprising given that they went completely overboard on the Eddy exploitation in such a sickening manner. The layout of the match also didn't help which seemed more focussed on protecting Angle and making him look unstoppable, than putting over Rey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 It was just one match. I don't think it's fair to say "Rey is being booed" unless there is a pattern, like with Cena. But yeah, there are ways to not make this a handicap as it currently is. I'm just not quite sure what they are yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 It's a problem of their own creation. They make the heels so much cooler and much easier to get behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 But yeah, there are ways to not make this a handicap as it currently is. I'm just not quite sure what they are yet.There probably is, but I don't think WWE will be savvy enough to find it in time and he'll drop the title soon and they'll eventually reluctantly turn him heel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bruiser Chong Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 From what I've seen, the major faces don't have their own unique personality. On the surface they may, but when it comes to their actions, they all seem to follow the same bland formula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Metal Maniac Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 Loss mentioned how the WWE would be smart to notice how the fans are reacting and start adopting a "cheer or boo who you want" mindset rather than the face vs heel we're used to. Isn't this what Vince said he was gonna do back in like, 1997 with the "shades of grey" speech? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 Yeah, but it was all under the guise of making true shades of gray characters, which they didn't really do. Austin was a true babyface with an attitude. Vince McMahon was a typical heel. Cena is much more ambiguous than Austin ever was, if only because he's being booed for being a nice guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 Loss mentioned how the WWE would be smart to notice how the fans are reacting and start adopting a "cheer or boo who you want" mindset rather than the face vs heel we're used to. Isn't this what Vince said he was gonna do back in like, 1997 with the "shades of grey" speech? Yes but back then, we still had defined faces and heels. The faces just had a bit of a badass edge to them (e.g. Austin) and the heels were "cool" heels (DX, The Rock, etc.). That's where your "shades of gray" falls into play, because it went away from traditional faces and heels for good. Loss' comment mentioned the flat-out elimination of faces and heels since fans will cheer who they want to, anyway. You still get faces who get cheers (e.g. RVD) and heels who still get booed (e.g. JBL) so there isn't a total revolt against faces and heels, but the idea of fading the concept away doesn't seem like a bad one. Someone on DVDVR made a great point about John Cena being the most over face and most over heel they have, all at the same time, so this may be as good a time to attempt this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KingPK Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 From what I've seen, the major faces don't have their own unique personality. On the surface they may, but when it comes to their actions, they all seem to follow the same bland formula. This is what I think it is. There really aren't any truly unique faces in WWE anymore. All the characters introduced recently that have been in any way different from the norm have been heels. Mickey James, the Boogeyman, MNM, all heels. So the fans, who are sick of the same old thing with the faces, choose to cheer the heels. And there is also the fact that some people cheer a wrestler no matter what he is because they like his style (which would be the case with Benoit, Angle and HHH fans, I think). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest savagerulz Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 Yeah, but it was all under the guise of making true shades of gray characters, which they didn't really do. Austin was a true babyface with an attitude. Vince McMahon was a typical heel. Cena is much more ambiguous than Austin ever was, if only because he's being booed for being a nice guy.Austin stunned everyone heel or face including Santa Claus, twice I think. He was a man who stood alone and acted like a dick to people who were supposed to be his allies. Cena coming out waving his arms around like a retard trying to desperately get the fans behind him is not ambiguous. Cena has to beg the fans to cheer him almost with the WWE machine behind him begging them to cheer him as well, Austin needed to do no such thing. This "new" shift you are talking about started happening way back in 1996. These kind of reactions are at least ten years old in WWE and even older in wrestling all together. Vince has capitalized on this shift before and that his how the Austin era was born. The fans made Vince the three biggest stars he has ever had under his roof with Austin, Foley and Rock (who went from Die Rocky Die to the great one in a year). I think if you take away the heel and faces you take away the very essence of pro wrestling. Its stripped down theater. The most basic and still most powerful story around, good versus evil. Wrestling characters and stories are best kept broad and simple with the occasional twist and turn but it should always boil down to two men coming face to face in the ring. A wrestling company has a tricky job, it has to make people want to pay to watch two grown men pretend to fight. In order to enjoy it, you have to suspend disbelief and get involved in the match in some way. There has to be someone you root for, there is a reason its called working the crowd. All wrestling fans want to be worked, they want to believe what they see in front of them is real even though they know its not, if but for a few moments. Heels and faces are a not just a big part of this but an essential one. Now the smaller your audience the more you can get away from this. Thats why ECW was able to blur the line but Heyman still kept the good versus evil aspect through out( ie Raven vs Dreamer) while pushing the boundaries of ambiguity. With larger crowds this is a much more difficult task. There was always wrestling fans who cheered heels. Hell thats one of my favorite parts about being a wrestling fan is the friction in the air of the arena when the crowd is worked into a frenzy of emotion over staged combat. Wearing and NwO shirt to Nitro and taunting a group of people with a Sting poster all damn night. That friction, that heat has to be there and nothing does it better than heel vs face and nothing ever will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted April 8, 2006 Report Share Posted April 8, 2006 I know there has to be someone you root for, but who says every single fan has to root for the same person? I think there's more money to be made in playing up both sides of every story huge. There are rudo fans in Mexico. There are plenty of fans who cheer for heels in Japan. It doesn't really change anything, it just means that each group has their own sector of fans. Instead of trying to force feed the fans into liking and disliking who the company wants them to like and dislike, why not just present the characters a little more naturally and let the individuals make their decisions? I'm not saying it's a great idea, I'm saying it's one worth talking about and weighing the pros and cons of, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted April 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2006 It seems like the US is the last place keeping to the "everyone cheer the faces and boo the heels" booking mentality. I know there was phases like the nWo and Austin where it was cool to cheer someone acting the heel, but when those characters ran their course it went back to "cheer this guy, and boo that guy". Forcing the fans to cheer or boo the way you want them to when they're trying to tell you otherwise just seems like stupid business. The mindset that WWE is stuck in that you have to be a face to sell merch is mind boggling as well. I don't think I've ever seen any wrestling shirt get worn more than the nWo one, and they were heels for most of that time when everyone in the mall was sporting the black n' white. I guess what my point was is not to abandon the face vs heel dynamic in pro wrestling, but to stop trying to herd the fans into what the company decided is the correct reaction to give someone. If a face is getting boos, don't have your announcers make the people booing feel like they're doing something wrong. Play into it like how they keep teasing with Cena. Wrestling is like any other business, you need to adapt or you'll end up in the dust like Verne Gagne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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