GENESIS

[Boondocks Kernoodle]

Angle beats Joe clean and refuses a rematch even though he's the face!

 

Abyss beats Sting by DQ and wins the NWA title!

 

FUCK YEAH TNA!

[Boondocks Kernoodle]

Oh yeah, I forgot that LAX got stripped of the titles for being assholes. 

[Guest Danny Dubya v 2.0]

There goes that idea of making TNA look better than WWE in the Angle-Joe match.

[sek69]

TNA actually invoking the "champ loses the belt on a DQ" for the first time since like the Nashville days was kinda neat in the sense of continuity. They'd mention it from time to time that the champ can lose the belt on a DQ but they haven't done it in like forever.  I thought that would get forgotten with Vince "what's a clean finish?" Russo around.

 

I'm not a fan of Russo devaluing titles, but at least stripping LAX of the tag titles makes sense in the storyline. It gives their "held down by the man" gimmick some cred while giving Cornette the chance to do awesome promos ( didn't watch, but it's Cornette so I'm just going to assume if he didn't do one last night there'll be one on Thursday).

 

As far as Angle-Joe goes, I guess it's better to have Joe's first loss come to Kurt Angle rather than Random TNA Wrestler #70 who'll get depushed and forgotten about. Then again, it does kinda make TNA wrestlers look second rate to have their top guy tap out to someone who up until recently was a top WWE guy. That's the kind of shit that cements the WWE > TNA in the average fan's mind.

[The Thread Killer]

I saw the show last night.  I have mixed feelings about it.  It was a fair show, good at some points, disappointing at others.

 

- The "VKM" are just stupid.  They were fine as The James Gang, I really don't know why they're doing this.  On the positive side, I was a huge fan of Raven's Flock and I am happy to see Bently, Kazarian and Devine as his new followers.  HOWEVER...Raven was wearing a white leisure suit and some weird S&M turtleneck.  ODD.

 

So for this match?

 

BAD = Match was nothing special, VKM angle is beyond stupid (and Raven's fashion sense is also bad)

GOOD = New Raven's Flock, and you can't deny that VKM are over like mad with the fans in the asylum

 

- The Naturals vs. Dutt/Lethal was meh.  It was basically to promote The Naturals as heels, so you knew they were going over.  I do like how they have been reborn with Douglas as their mouthpiece, it seems to be working.  However, like the match before it, this match didn't really belong on PPV.  The Naturals/Team 3D feud is brewing quite nicely.  People can bitch all they want about Team 3D not being in the Tag Team title picture, but if they are going to keep running off to Japan every few weeks like this, stories like this one and angles are the best you're going to get from them.

 

BAD = Match was nothing special, ending was a forgone conclusion.

GOOD = The Naturals are really evolving as is their feud with Team 3D

 

- Daniels vs. Sabin was pretty good.  Sabin is SO much better as a heel it's not even funny.  He is so wooden and unconvincing as a face, but when he plays a heel he just comes to life.  The match started slow, but got going.  It got some fair time...and the potential Jerry Lynn vs. Chris Sabin feud makes me happy.  They're really been building to this for ages.  I am wondering if (aside from playing the "pass the title belt" game) the X Division will be the one part of TNA that will not have much obvious Russo influence...in that long wrestling matches will still happen.

 

BAD = Nothing

GOOD = Solid match, Sabin is coming along awesome with his heel turn, Lynn angle is a great idea

 

- The Nash/Shelley/Starr backstage segment was really funny.  They are so obviously booking this whole Nash mentoring Shelley and Starr angle to the internet fans. 

 

"If you follow my lead, you'll get to work with some of the big stars like I did."

 

"Like Lazertron?"

 

"Yep.  And George South."

 

Then during the Shelley/Star vs. Killings/Hoyt match.

 

"What happened to your arm?"

 

"I injured it two nights ago in Japan, defending my International X Division title in the Budokan.  I was going for the firebird phoenix 375 splash and I hit my arm."

 

The match was a nothing match.  I don't like Hoyt, I don't know why they're wasting Killings in matches like this, and I would like to see them do more with Shelley and Starr...but it looks like those two will end up feuding.

 

BAD = Wasting Killings with Hoyt.  Hoyt is also bad.  Shelley and Starr's skills being overshadowed by the story.

GOOD = (As much as it pains me to say this) In his non-wrestling role, Nash is actually very funny and entertaining.  His commentary can be laugh out loud funny.  Get rid of West and put him with Tenay.

 

- The Christian/AJ Styles match was a million times better than I thought it was going to be.  I figured it would be average at best, and was shocked.  Christian really surprised me here, he really wrestled a good match.  AJ Styles selling still bugs me at times, but this was a very fun match.  The segment after the match with Rhyno trying to get Daniels and Styles to shake hands so they didn't end up like he and Christian was actually pretty good.

 

BAD = I hope this isn't leading to Styles vs. Daniels AGAIN.  They just feuded!

GOOD = The Match was very good.  Christian was great.  Rhino's involvement was well done.

 

- The tag match was okay...but TOO SHORT.  If they had cut out those first two nothing matches, they would have had more time for this and the Main Event.  The matches LAX had with Styles & Daniels were way better.  Also, the ending was beyond stupid, and the fans shit all over Cornette stripping LAX of the belts, and rightfully so.  If they do another tournament, I swear I'm going to lose it.

 

BAD = The match was too short.  Title stripping was STUPID.

GOOD = LAX may be the best heel stable in years...an excellent angle being executed perfectly

 

- Jim Mitchell is gold.

 

- The World Title Match was...odd.  Sting is in GREAT shape, and he bumped nicely for Abyss...especially in thumbtacks which was cringeworthy.  The ending was unexpected.  Sting acted well...he looked like he had totally snapped...they are really playing up this story that having the NWA World Title makes you crazy.  Abyss didn't exactly look great coming out of the match though.  Sting did NOT put him over in any way, shape or form.  I don't see Abyss holding that belt for long, I'm betting he drops it to somebody ASAP on television. 

 

People online have been complaining about this a lot, and some it is valid, but some isn't.  TNA mentioned as recently as the Christian/Jeff Jarrett feud that you could lose the title for doing something to get yourself deliberately disqualified.  The whole story has always been that you get a ton of rope in a World Title Match, (you can brawl all over the arena, use weapons, run ins are tolerated to a degree) but if you TRY to get disqualified you will lose the title.  Sting punched the ref after the ref threatend to DQ him TWICE...so his losing the title for it makes sense if you have watched TNA before.  The people who say it doesn't makes sense are wrong there.  It may not make sense from a booking standpoint...but from a STORYLINE standpoint, you can't say that this is some new stipulation or something.  As a match, I would say it was fair.

 

BAD = Abyss didn't come out of this looking good...and now he's the champ.

GOOD = Sting looks motivated, for what it's worth.  The continuity and storytelling was good

 

- The main event?  It was going well...but it was too short.  I hate to say, but from my perspective, Angle's match with Michaels at WM21 was better than this for one reason.  Length.  I was just really starting to get into it when it ended.  Angle looked fine, he can still go, no concerns there.  Joe was doing well.  They just didn't give it enough time.

 

I don't have a problem with Joe tapping...the guy was booked like a monster for 18 months, and he didn't get squashed here...Angle was bleeding like a stuck pig and Joe almost killed him with a couple of moves (especially when Joe slung him into the crowd barrier.)  It's pretty obvious that they'll fight again.

 

BAD = Match was too short

GOOD = Match was very good while it lasted, and a rematch appears likely

 

So overall? I'd give this PPV a C+

 

I don't like frequent title changes, and TNA used to be great for not treating the belts like a joke.  The X Title has been switching hands like mad lately, the Tag Titles got held up, and the World Title changed hands last night.  That's too much.  The VKM angle is DUMB.

 

However...this show wasn't a total washout.  It was fair.  Of course, a lot of people online were "OMG THIS IS IT TNA IS OVER THEY'RE GOING OUT OF BUSINESS!!!"  This is an actual word for word quote from some idiot at TSM:

 

Abyss has been given the World Title, beating Sting by DQ.

LAX have been STRIPPED of the belts on PPV.

Samoa Joe has lost his undefeated steak AND tapped out which I assume is clean.

 

I haven't even watched it, but I think that's it for TNA now.

This is one of the things that drives me NUTS about some fans.  HE HADN'T SEEN THE SHOW...but OMG THE SKY IS FALLING!  These are the same people who read the spoilers every week before seeing how the show is put together for broadcast, and then piss and moan about the bookings.  The net is being overwhelmed today by people who are complaining about the show, 75% of whom DIDN'T SEE IT.  I swear, some fans complain just to look cool to their messageboard buddies.

 

TNA does need to adjust their creative team, I just hope THEY figure that out.  Russo or whoever gave the greenlight to all of these title changes need to understand that matches need to be longer, and a championship belt is not a hot potato to be tossed around.  I hope if Russo is the one who caused the problems with this show, Jarrett and Mantel realize that and reel him in.  Or ask Cornette to do it! 

[Loss]

All I can think when I see the title of this thread is "she-seems-to-have-an-invisible-touch, yeah!"

[Guest The Metal Maniac]

I guess it's better to have Joe's first loss come to Kurt Angle rather than Random TNA Wrestler #70 who'll get depushed and forgotten about.

I dunno, I still think it'd be better for it to have been someone else getting the win. Angle's name is already made - being the guy who beat Samoa Joe can't really elevate him, because he's already at the top. But, even though there's a chance that someone else who wasn't a top guy, if they had beaten Joe, would have gotten depushed, there's also a good chance they they could've made a new star, and I think that's a chance worth taking.

[Guest The Original HTQ]

I've only seen the Joe vs. Angle match, just now, and the finish has completely turned me off TNA. I have no problem with Joe losing when the time is right, and to the right person, but it was neither the right time or the right person. I've already explained in detail why Joe should have won clean, which I'll repost here:

 

Joe has to go over and it has to be clean.

 

Joe going over establishes that TNA's top star is better than one of WWE's top stars, and it makes TNA look good to be able to say that one of their stars beat a WWE star who wanted to try his luck in TNA. It also goes a long way to making Joe seem special again, because for quite some time now he's been just another guy in a crowded main event scene. Beating Angle makes Joe special and TNA need a homegrown talent that is special, because they cannot rely on WWE to keep letting top names go. While Angle can beat Joe eventually, he cannot beat him now. Angle is already over enough and is established enough that ending Joe's streak does almost nothing for him and would only make Joe, and TNA, look bad because it establishes that a top WWE guy can beat a top TNA guy, and TNA does not need to make itself look bad any more than it already has. Joe beating Angle can make for a great, and very believable storyline, where Angle can say that he underestimated Joe and the competition in TNA but when he gets that rematch he won't make that mistake. Angle putting over Joe like that puts over TNA, and Angle talking up the wrestlers in TNA makes them look special, because you've got Kurt Angle, who the fans respect a lot and who they believe is a genuine tough guy, telling them that the wrestlers in TNA are not to be taken lightly.

Joe losing cleanly would further establish the idea that TNA wrestlers are inferior to WWE wrestlers, even if it is a top name like Angle. Joe winning, even if it is a close call, at least establishes right off the bat that TNA's top wrestler is better than one of WWE's top wrestlers. Angle doesn't need to win right away, but Joe does and TNA needs Joe to win right away. Angle is established to the mainstream already. Joe isn't and neither is TNA, and Joe winning would be a big boost. If Joe loses by DQ for not letting go of the choke, they still push the idea that Joe choked out Kurt Angle. They could also push Joe as this monster who endangered the life of the guy TNA are hoping to help take them to the next level. This could get Joe over big as a heel and further cement Angle as a babyface, which can the play into their rematch down the line with Angle going for revenge against the man who tried to end his career.

I would have been ok with Joe losing by DQ for not letting go of the choke, but Joe tapping out clean is just about the worst finish they could have done. They've not only turned Joe into a just another wrestler on the roster, which they had all but done before starting the build towards the Angle match, but with Angle winning clean they totally lost out on a golden opportunity, maybe the only one they'll ever have, to do something memorable and special and make TNA seem better than WWE in the eyes of the casual fans and any new viewers. Instead, TNA did what they always do in this situation and go with the 'safe' booking of the big star winning, when he didn't need to, when they could have shown some balls and done something innovative like making their own wrestler look better. Joe's big streak is over, and for what? To get Kurt Angle over? He's already over huge with TNA fans and it's not like he could get any more over. To make Kurt Angle seem like the best? TNA fans already think he's the best. Joe, and TNA, needed the win so much more and while Joe might win their rematch next month it doesn't matter. The special aura is gone. Joe could have come out of Genesis as a bona fide star to the masses. Now, he's just another big guy who tapped out.