Matches From 1969

[Loss]

>>1969

>>#1 - The Destroyer v Giant Baba (JWA, 03/05) *****

 

At one time I considered this the greatest match I had ever seen. It's still near the top for me, and it may still yet be the best match I've ever seen. Baba is more than capable here, but this match is what it is because of Destroyer and because he's the blueprint in this match for most of my favorite heels of the subsequent 30 years. Hiding the foreign object, loudly arguing with the ref, celebrating victories that don't matter much ... all heel staples that Beyer excels at. My only complaint against Dick Beyer, if you want to call it that, is that in most of the matches I've seen of his, he seems to be having so much fun wrestling that he's devoid of a real mean streak or any aggression. I need recommendations where Destroyer is angry.

 

Still need to watch Inoki/Dory also.

[shoe]

I really enjoyed this match also. I didn't like it quite as much as you. I'd have it in the 4 1/2-4 3/4 * range. What kept it out of the 5* range was some of Baba's weak strikes. For some reason I can handle blown spots, or timing of spots being off, but weak strikes bother me.

[Loss]

To tell you the truth, Baba was so overwhelmed by Destroyer in this match for me that I couldn't really tell you much about Baba's performance except that I thought it was pretty good. Destroyer had the performance of a lifetime of course. The striking was definitely never really Baba's strong suit. I'm glad you agree this is a great match. Because it didn't show up on AJ Classics, I think there are a lot of people that haven't seen it that would probably enjoy it. It gets pimped enough, but it's a little harder to track down, or at least it was until Frank's digests.

[Loss]

I got to 1977 and realized that there were a great number of these matches I had pretty much forgotten about watching and had no idea what to say about. This is why jdw was right when he said it's a good idea to at least say something, even if it's brief, because these matches start running together after a while. I decided to re-watch some stuff, and then decided that I might as well re-watch everything. Considering that I've been introduced to styles like lucha and UWF-style for the first time (in detail) in the past year or so, I thought it might be interesting to go back and see if more stuff I've watched has changed anything I thought before at all. It's also a good time to watch all the stuff from a given year that I want to see and haven't before moving to the next. At the end of each decade, I'll do a top 10 overall of the decade or something. Could be fun.

 

Giant Baba v Destroyer - JWA 03/05/69

I watched this again and still thought it was an incredible, classic match. I gave Destroyer a lot of credit for doing so many things that inspired so many of my favorite heels before, but really, I think I even understated that before. The second fall of this match is a pretty typical mid-80s Ric Flair match in fast forward. And between the whining, trash talking, running to the ropes for safety, rolling out of the ring to avoid fighting, using the ropes behind the ref, Fargo strutting, pointing to his head whenever he makes a good tactical move and biting Baba's fingers, among other things, I think this is still a candidate for being the best heel performance I've ever seen. I would drop this down a peg after watching again, though. Selling to put over offense from both is great, but they wrestle with just as much speed and zest 35 minutes into the match as they do at the beginning, so there's not really much selling to put over the match itself. At about the same time frame in the match, Destroyer clips Baba's leg and I think we're about to finally progress past a lot of the stalemates in the matwork, but they standoff yet again after that and miss a really great opportunity to do something different than they were doing before. Once you get past the weird layout of the match, where they load all the important stuff in the final few minutes instead of swinging momentum in a meaningful way throughout the early parts of the match, you still have a pretty awesome match. Baba going after Destroyer's knee at the beginning of the second fall is really great, and Destroyer taking over after the missed kneedrop to lead to the figure four may be the best set up of a move I've ever seen in a match. I was a little down on the finish, as they were tied at one fall each, and still had a few minutes to go before hitting an hour, so I'm not sure why the match ended. Still, tremendous.

 

Giant Baba & Kintaro Oki v Bobo Brazil & Chris Markoff - JWA 04/16/69

Not a bad match by any means, but aside from the heels hiding the foreign object between each other, neither team seemed to really wrestle as much of a team. I think my favorite thing about this match was the battle of the headbutts between Oki and Brazil, which was really well done both times they did it. Oki reminds me of a random guy you'd see in the undercard of SWS or WAR 20-25 years later, as headbutts are his biggest strength and he doesn't do a whole lot more than that, but the whole package comes together and he's effective. Baba is obviously the leader of his team and plays his role well, and I'll talk more about Chris Markoff below.

 

Antonio Inoki v Chris Markoff - JWA 05/16/69

Awesome how Foreign Menace versus Local Boy is such a basic, effective story and can work in pretty much any pro wrestling environment. 17 minutes and just really, really good, with awesome pacing and heat, and Inoki playing the underdog role pretty brilliantly. I've never really heard of Chris Markoff before, but if he has family, someone should really send them a copy of the 1969 Digest, because it sure makes Markoff look like a million bucks. Inoki was obviously a superstar on the rise here. This isn't as good as Baba/Destroyer, but in some ways, it is less of a challenge to watch, because it's so energetic from the opening bell and also because it's so heated and more dramatic throughout. Kind of a slept on match that should be talked about much more than it is. I want to see more Chris Markoff, as he seems like a really great brawler.

[Loss]

Next up:

 

Dory Funk Jr v Antonio Inoki - JWA 12/01/69

 

Pre-1969 matches I'm also going to watch:

 

Whatever Rikidozan/JWA matches are complete from 1953-1963

The Destroyer v Toyonobori - JWA 02/26/65

Giant Baba v Fritz Von Erich - JWA 12/03/66

Giant Baba v Bruno Sammartino - JWA 03/07/67

Giant Baba v Bruno Sammartino - JWA 08/07/68

Fred Blassie v Rikidozan from Capitol Sports (unsure if this is on the JWA set or if they are two different matches)

 

Then I'll start on 1970.

 

 

There is more pre-1970 stuff I want to see, but this is everything I actually own, so it's a good start.

[jdw]

While I give Dick a lot of credit for the greatness of the 03/05/69 match, I think it's equally enlightening on just how good Baba was. He's on the same page with Beyers on just about everything they do.

 

This isn't Volk Han putting an opponent in a "cool hold", playing around with it while the opponent has no option on how to get out, and then finally having to let it go or use an awkward transition. When Beyers put on a hold, Baba knows what to do with it. When Baba puts on a hold, Beyers knows where to go.

 

It's also not a matter of just slapping on a hold and resting in it. They work really cool shit in it. Baba puts a ground crucifix on Beyers. Beyers tries to stand up out of it, which risks Baba's shoulders going to the mat in a pinning position. Baba yanks him back down, then starts raining guilotine legdrops on the back of Destroyer's head and neck, which Dick sells the mother out of. It's a naturalistic sequence, but cool as all hell. In the Dory-Brisco 60 minute draw in Japan, is there a *single* hold that's worked in a way that's either as smart or cool as that?

 

To make my point clearer:

 

That's GIANT FUCKING BABA applying that ground crucifix (cool fucking hold) and raining those guilotine legdrops down on the back of Destroyer's head (unfucking believable cool move) while retaining the hold.

 

Fuck the "weak" chops. Fuck the fact that he was akward because of the gigantism playing havoc with his body. Baba was one smart son of a gun in the ring, and was a game MoFo. He was "1995-97 Good Taue", except that he was vastly smarter in the ring, more game, and didn't wait until he was 34 to become a good worker.

 

So yes, Destroyer is one of the greatest workers who ever lived and the 03/05/69 match shows him in prime form. He's a freaking maestro. But Giant Baba could flat out go in ring. He is the Best Taue That Ever Lived... as in Taue, in the context of his time, wasn't any better than Baba was.

 

 

John

[Loss]

I'm a major Baba supporter, and you won't find any argument from me there. Baba was really great in this match, and perhaps I understated that. This was not a carry job, but I focused more on Destroyer because this was the first time I had seen him in the context of a really long match when I first watched this. The Mascaras and Hansen matches are terrific also (and I'll get to both of them soon enough), but this match I think is the best showcase for Destroyer I've come across thus far. As for Baba, you are right that he knew what to do with everything he was given. It's just very easy to overlook that because Destroyer has such a huge presence and does so many things so well.

[jdw]

I agree - this does showcase Dick in his most natural role as a heel. Rather than the Rikidozan or Toyonobori or Inoki matches, it's one where he has an opponent that lets him really show his best. I tend to think this is a great "first" match for people to watch of Dick, because the viewer can then take what they learned here and apply it to other matches:

 

* against Rikidozan he has to stooge and stall around more, which makes Riki look like a God

 

* against Toyonobori, he's in there with a pretty lmited worker and it's almost like working with a broom

 

* against Inoki, surprisingly Inoki isn't all *that* yet, so Dick again has to lead

 

I also think that watching it first ends up reflecting better on Baba as well. Here is Baba's predecessor, then the man who failed on top, then the man who became Baba's rival all head-up against the Destroyer. Dick is in his *prime* against all of them - it's before he got older and slowed down. And one can really make the comp on who can do what at that point in their careers.

 

One can also see who works in a way that allows Dick to bring out the breadth of his working ability, and which ones force him to narrow his game to what they can hang with him on.

 

It's a bit like watching Benoit in there with Eddy, Liger, Ohtani... and then watching him in there with DDP and Raven and having to slow himself down to 33 RPM so they could keep up.

 

I wish that more of the JWP stuff could come out. There are so many dream matches out there:

 

Baba vs. Thesz

Baba & Yoshimura vs. Snyder & Pedro Morales

Baba & Inoki vs. Bruno & Stevens

Baba & Inoki vs. Snyder & Hodge (four title matches in one series: one a time limit draw, two being title changes)

Baba vs. Snyder

Baba-Blassie

Baba & Inoki vs. Destroyer & Black Gordman

Baba & Inoki vs. Destroyer & Buddy Austin

Baba & Inoki vs. Dory Jr. & Hodge (time limit draw at Kuramae Sumo Hall)

Baba vs. Dory Jr. (time limit draw the night *after* the Inoki-Dory)

Baba vs. Dory Jr. (week before the second Dory-Inoki)

Baba & Inoki vs. Dory Jr. & Terry (several)

Baba & Inoki vs. Kiniski & Johnny Valentine (27:50, 8:55, 9:20)

Yoshimura & Inoki vs. Valentine & Race (two All Asian matches on same series)

Baba & Inoki vs. Mascaras & Spiros Arion

Baba vs. Young Terry Funk

 

And on and on. Just loads of stuff that could be (at best) great or (at worst) enlightening.

 

The thing is... no one seems to have a clue of just how much stuff is in the can in N-TV when it comes to JWP material.

 

 

John

[jdw]

BTW, Loss - when you watch the Destroyer vs. Rikidozan match, make sure you get the *full* version of it. The version that is circulating with the Toyonobori match is edited, and not in a way that makes Dick's work look very good. Lynch had the full version years ago on one of his boots when it aired on one of the All Japan Specials.

 

 

John

[shoe]

Baba really gets shit on a lot. For a guy with so much negative stigma about his work he really has been in a boatload of good matches. He's similar to Backlund in that regard.

[shoe]

Now Loss I got a question for you or for anybody. You said that the Beyer-Baba match was tied at one fall a piece and the bell rang early. I thought the bell rang early to save Baba from the figure 4, and then going to a 3rd fall. The ref put Destroyers hand down when the bell sounded and raised Baba's indicating he won the match 1-0. I thought the screwjob was to protect Baba from the figure 4 and from the few minutes left for the 3rd fall. At the time Destroyer's Fig4 caused submissions in seconds, thus the quick bell. Correct me if I'm misreading the scenario.

[Loss]

That actually sounds pretty accurate, and would make sense giving the match. I was thinking the figure four was a decision.

[Loss]

Antonio Inoki v Dory Funk Jr - JWA 12/02/69

I expected to like this far more than I did. I did really enjoy the last 20 minutes, and I think they saved the match, but man, the first 40 minutes or so of this were a mess. Inoki and Dory seemed to be on different pages for much of this, and the fans and the focus seemed to be more on what was going on outside of the ring than on what was going on inside it. That said, they really salvaged the match down the final stretch and delivered some great false finishes. The match was begging at times for Dory to be on offense, but he never really ran with it. I'm an Inoki fan and a Dory fan, and I did think this was a very good match once they got going, but it took them long enough to finally get going. I'll be watching their match from 1970 later today, and I have high expectations again and know they're going broadway again. I just hope the match is as good early on as it is toward the end this time around.

[pantherwagner]

JWA, 5/16/69 - Antonio Inoki vs. Chris Markoff

I actually didn't like the start of the match, and I am going to sound like a ROH tard here, but it was because of the mechanics and execution. Once it got to Inoki getting beaten by brilliant heel Markoff, it was excellent. It was kind of strange to me seeing this Inoki, really different to the Inoki I am used to seeing. The finish and the way the crowd was into the last minutes of the match was just amazing, and like Loss, this left me wanting to see more Markoff.