jdw Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Top Lucha Stars ever It would be interesting if there's been an update to the 1993 list Tamalie posted, and also where Perro might have moved to since then. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherwagner Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 My last post on WC was on January of 2004, I don't even "lurk" or read that place (regularly or semi-regularly or even once every few months). That doesn't mean I'm not willing to bring the discussion here... This is the original list... 1. El Santo 2. El Solitario 3. Mil Mascaras 4. Rene Guajardo 5. Gori Guerrero 6. Tarzan Lopez 7. Ray Mendoza 8. Black Shadow 9. Blue Demon 10. Huracan Ramirez 11. Medico Asesino 12. Rayo De Jalisco 13. Karloff Lagarde 14. Los Espantos 15. Perro Aguayo 16. Villano III 17. Canek 18. Cavernario Galindo 19. Charro Aguayo 20. Alfonso Dantes 21. Fishman 22. Blackie Guzman 23. Dos Caras 24. Rolando Vera 25. Raul Romero 26. Anibal 27. Alberto Munoz 28. Javier Escobedo 29. Dientes Hernandez 30. Firpo Segura 31. Angel Blanco 32. Gladiator 33. Wolf Rubinski 34. Satoru Sayama 35. Lizmark 36. Ruben Juarez 37. Rito Romero 38. Sugi Sito 39. Raul Reyes 40. Sangre Chicana 41. Antonio Montoro 42. Felipe Ham Lee 43. Dory Dixon 44. Cesar Valentine 45. Ringo Mendoza 46. Enrique Vera 47. Tony Salazar 48. Kato Kung Lee 49. El Faraon 50. El Satanico 51. Bobby Bonales 52. Espectro I 53. Bulldog 54. El Enfermero 55. Halcon Dorado 56. America Rocca 57. Rayo De Jalisco Jr. 58. Atlantis 59. Super Astro 60. El Hijo Del Santo 61. Super Muneco 62. Tigre Ryan 63. Tinieblas 64. Colosso Colosetti 65. La Fiera 66. El Signo 67. Cien Caras 68. Adolfo Bonales 69. Merced Gomez 70. Murcielago Velazquez 71. Solar I 72. Juanito Diaz 73. El Nazi 74. Emilio Charles 75. Mishima Ota 76. Gorila Ramos 77. Gorila Macias 78. Vampiro 79. Konnan 80. Dandy 81. Pirata Morgan 82. El Gran Davis 83. Lobo Negro 84. Jack O'Brien 85. Matzura Matzuda 86. Jerry Estrada 87. Octagon 88. Los Brazos 89. Emilio Charles Jr. 90. Pierroth Jr. 91. Irma Gonzales 92. Chabela Romero 93. Lola Gonzales 94. Estela Molina 95. Pantera Surena 96. Killer 97. Daniel Aldana 98. Carnicero Butcher 99. Ciclon Veloz 100. Octabovia Gaona To that list, as the "next generation" of huge superstars I'd add: Rey Misterio Jr. La Parka Shocker Dr. Wagner Jr. Latin Lover Ultimo Guerrero Mistico Universo 2000 Perro Aguayo Jr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherwagner Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 At first sight, people can go in a few groups: If they are not, they should be on the WON HOF 1. El Santo 2. El Solitario 3. Mil Mascaras 4. Rene Guajardo 5. Gori Guerrero 6. Tarzan Lopez 7. Ray Mendoza 8. Black Shadow 9. Blue Demon 15. Perro Aguayo 16. Villano III 17. Canek 18. Cavernario Galindo 60. El Hijo Del Santo 67. Cien Caras Second line world HOF level (HOF worthy, but harder to argue) 10. Huracan Ramirez 12. Rayo De Jalisco 13. Karloff Lagarde 19. Charro Aguayo 23. Dos Caras 24. Rolando Vera 25. Raul Romero 26. Anibal 35. Lizmark 50. El Satanico 58. Atlantis 79. Konnan Good for a Mexican HOF, but not for a world HOF 11. Medico Asesino (career was too short) 14. Los Espantos (Espanto III would be like Mike Von Erich on the WON HOF) 20. Alfonso Dantes (held many titles but I don't think he was a really huge star) 21. Fishman 22. Blackie Guzman 30. Firpo Segura 31. Angel Blanco (needs Dr. Wagner with him as a team) 37. Rito Romero 38. Sugi Sito 39. Raul Reyes (good career as a wrestler and successful promoter) 42. Felipe Ham Lee 43. Dory Dixon 33. Wolf Rubinski 52. Espectro I 66. El Signo (only if Texano and Navarro go with him as a package) 80. Dandy 87. Octagon 88. Los Brazos Could be, but I'm not sure 70. Murcielago Velazquez 82. El Gran Davis Had a great career, but I don't see it 32. Gladiator 45. Ringo Mendoza 59. Super Astro 64. Colosso Colosetti 71. Solar I 78. Vampiro (maybe if he hadn't fucked up so many times) 81. Pirata Morgan 89. Emilio Charles Jr. 90. Pierroth Jr. 91. Irma Gonzales 95. Pantera Surena Not in a HOF for his lucha career 34. Satoru Sayama Random old names that don't belong at all, but they are old so some people think they do 27. Alberto Munoz 28. Javier Escobedo (this would be like Hector Garza dying in 1996 before WCW and getting in) 29. Dientes Hernandez 36. Ruben Juarez 41. Antonio Montoro (tremendous Spaniard technical master, but Mexican career was short) 51. Bobby Bonales 53. Bulldog (he's on the "el Santo el Cavernario Blue Demon y el Bulldog" song so people think he was more famous than he was) 54. El Enfermero 55. Halcon Dorado 62. Tigre Ryan 68. Adolfo Bonales 69. Merced Gomez 72. Juanito Diaz 73. El Nazi 74. Emilio Charles 75. Mishima Ota 76. Gorila Ramos 77. Gorila Macias 83. Lobo Negro 84. Jack O'Brien 85. Matzura Matzuda 97. Daniel Aldana 98. Carnicero Butcher 99. Ciclon Veloz 100. Octavio Gaona Very good worker, but no 40. Sangre Chicana 44. Cesar Valentine 47. Tony Salazar 49. El Faraon 56. America Rocca 65. La Fiera 86. Jerry Estrada 92. Chabela Romero 93. Lola Gonzales You are in the list to fill in the women quote 94. Estela Molina You fucking suck 46. Enrique Vera 48. Kato Kung Lee 57. Rayo De Jalisco Jr. 61. Super Muneco 63. Tinieblas Who did you screw to get on the list? 96. Killer Who did you piss off to be left off the list? Negro Casas Dr. Wagner Negro Navarro and El Texano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 59. Super Astro How influential was Super Astro? I've always been intrigued by him being the cutoff between minis and heavies. Also, are there any minis that might have something close to a strong case for a HOF, even Mexico only? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 I don't think Cien Caras is even on the WON HOF ballot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherwagner Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: Super Astro Interesting question. He was a great, great worker, who has been involved in many incredible matches in the last 25 years, but never was in a promineltly pushed position on TV, so he doesn't have the notoriety he probably should. His biggest run was 83-84 at El Toreo, but by then the promotion was mainly focused on heavyweights and some light-heavyweights. I always got the impression he was more of a "free spirit" and liked to move around, and he probably was better used in the "guest star" role than as somebody featured weekly on TV. While he had a really great formula style match, in the end it was a formula match and it would have hurt him to be showcased on TV doing the same thing over and over. As for his influence, he was somebody that the Tijuana crew (Konnan, Misterioso or both Rey Misterios) looked up to, because he was so spectacular and did such cool things. But he wasn't doing anything new. His trademark moves were something Rayo de Jalisco, Blackman or Tiger Mask were doing, except maybe the tope atomico to the outside (which could be his invention for all I know). He was a great worker and a guy who did spectacular dives (in an aesthetic way), but executed the dives with an "added weight" that made them look like they actually hurt and it wasn't just a nice flip. He was a great worker during decades and had star recognition all over the country, but he wasn't a big enough star to justify his inclusion even in a Mexico only HOF with strict entry criteria. He'd be one of my first entries in a "cool motherfuckers" HOF, though, as he's involved in one of my favourite matches ever (Brazos vs. Astro, Dandy & Popitekus). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 I don't think Cien Caras is even on the WON HOF ballot. Who did you piss off to be left off the list? Cien Caras John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Super Astro looks great in the lucha environment, but it was actually seeing him in Hamada's UWF that really put him over the top for me. He had great chemistry with Negro Casas. Hopefully, there's a singles match out there between the two that will eventually be uncovered, if it hasn't already been. It was odd to see Casas doing his tribute to Nobuhiko Takada and really looking awesome working a totally different style. No mullet, and lots of great UWF-style kicks and matwork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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