German catch

[David Mantell]

I wish I knew about this thread before. There's quite a few clips already posted to the British and French threads that really belongs here.

 

One of the two last matches by Adrian Street in Europe (along with his Great Yarmouth match teaming with Steve Kelly against the Pallos for their home video release cum audition tape for ITV.). Street's beard at this point was later trimmed into the mutton chop sideburns/moustache he had in America in the 80s.

Oddly good natured bout, Axel and Adam seem to have quite a few laughs together, you'd hardly know it was face versus heel (not sure what the appropriate terms are.) They even shake hands at the end of each round. Or was Adrian a good guy in Germany? Street the younger of the two doing his bridge and rolling with bumps up to a standing start.

Didn't know Imagine What I'm could do to you was written and recorded that early.  I suppose it explains the Sixties throwback musical style on some of his other songs such as the Freddie and the Dreamers esque I'm In Love With Me.

 

[David Mantell]

Copying across @Jetlag's two 1970s clips:

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Somebody posted some 70s German wrestling clips to Youtube. Just about a minute each so don't get your hopes up but it's still something.R

Roland Bock vs Jack Rowland

Bock vs Johnny El Corso

Going by Cagematch, the Rowland match might have been as early as 1974.

 

Me:

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Interesting. The ring looks like French Wrestling especially the red roped one in the first clip. Beau Jack Rowlands wasa journeyman blue eye heavyweight on 70s WOS, I thing he faced Daddy solo in 1976, probably with Daddy still the heel but don't quote me on that. The gong for a bell and the referee with a football whistle were very much regular tropes of the CWA era (apparently the promotion everyone calls the CWA was called the IBV back then - is that correct serg1e? Roland Bock reminds me of the younger Rex Strong before he got ill and piled on the pounds.

@Indikator:

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BV by then was Selenkowitsch. Hannover until 1980 was Schober (Peter William as the matchmaker). Berlin/VDB was Berger. Hannover then got Kaiser, who was more like a money mark. In the end William/Wanz as more or less heads of VDB edged out Selenkowitsch, consolidated power and by that you could say they drove it into the dead end that was Catch.

It will take quite a while until all the intricate details of the promotional structure will be shown at WD. Like Berger&Lasartesse copromoting and then being in opposition to each other in Berlin.

Then again I am also trying to flesh out the UK and things like figuring out Jack Atherton shows is quite some task.

I could live to the age of 200 and never run out of things to do.

Jetlag:

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This rant that was recently posted by a well versed historian on a German messageboard feels very relevant:

 

"It has long bothered me that everything that happened in Aut/BRD is automatically attributed to the CWA. A well-known data site even goes back to 1972, which is total bullshit. The CWA as an organised club that held events under the banner did not exist before 1988 event 87, but then only in Austria in Graz and then from 89 in Vienna. Before that, if you read CWA it was merely a title. Otto got the rights to a CWA title that Jan Wilkens had previously held in South Africa in 1977 (not 73 as is often stated on the net). There was also no tournament that is always mentioned here. Otto passed the title on to Don Leo, the date of 01.09.1977 is also incorrect here, I doubt whether there was a fight at all. The reason was that it was of course better for Wanz to win the title from a champion in his home town than to come home with a belt that nobody knows how and where and above all against whom he "won" it. Well DLJ got a good payday and Otto called himself world champion of the CWA from 1978. At that time it was still called the "Canadian Wrestling Association" (it didn't exist, but who cares). Otto defended the title at home at his shows, which he had been organising since 1972 and then mainly in Bremen, where Nico Selenkowitsch saw potential in Otto and built him up as a top European HW. Otto defended the title at home in his shows, which he organised from 1972 onwards and then above all in Bremen, where Nico Selenkowitsch saw potential in Otto and built him up as a top European HW. This was also reflected in the fact that Otto even won a second world championship title in 1978, the title played out in a tournament in Bremen with Nico of the IBV (International Professional Wrestling Federation). The success proved everyone right, Otto thrilled the crowds and Nico was able to fill the halls. However, the events were always organised under IBV, CWA only came into play on the final evening where Otto received a share per spectator in addition to the fee. When Nico resigned in 1987, more or less due to the intrigues of the new management of the Stadthalle in Bremen and other ricochets, Otto took over together with Peter William. The same thing happened in Vienna. After the 1988 tournament, Heinrich Kaiser (who did NOT organise CWA for the VDB) was booted out and Wanz and William also took over Waltz City. Hanover also belonged to Kaiser and the VDB until 90. Then in 1991 a discotheque owner called Jürgen Windolph took over for the VDB.   But only for one year, then came Paul Violka and now the CWA with PEter William. Wanz was never an organiser in Hanover. Sure, he got his percentage for the name, but he had nothing to say, only William did. Cities like Karlsruhe, Hamburg and others were never CWA territory. I'm annoyed that I've been doing educational work for years and then, as in this case, everything is simply labelled CWA on various Twitter pages, sorry X or youtube. But it is not. If you're interested, you can read it. Most people don't care, they just stick with CWA."

Source (German) -> https://www.moonsault.de/forum/thread/125606-aufklärung-zur-cwa-catch-wrestling-association/

 

FWIW, Roland Bock had a few matches against Jack Rowlands in 1974 for IBV, so the clip might be from one of those.

 

[David Mantell]

The first bout of IBV's glorious ahead of the curve wrestling home video programme which made Germany/Austria the third territory alongside the Televised Two, Britain and France of which we have bulk quantities of footage.  Otto Vs Don Leo Johnathan. With Otto looking a younger trimmer champion than the blubbery grand old man of the CWA he became. From July 1980:

 

[David Mantell]

My reply to the rant:

He doesn't exactly make it easy does he?  

To be honest it's very hard to take apart the Wikipedia page for the CWA since all the sources called it that.(Verifiability Not Truth and all that.)

It seems to me (and correct me if I'm wrong). that IBV is what people are referring to when they talk of the CWA- the promotion with the big ring with white ropes, blue or dark grey mat, covered in logos of sponsoring companies, gong instead of a bell.  featuring Otto and a load of visiting Americans, filmed very professionally by a multi camera crew for home video. While the VBD are the Other lot, smaller ring, a lot like Britain, lots of Joint Promotions mid careers on the bill, also quite a few older Germans like Axel Dieter, filmed badly with a single handheld camcorder.

 

 

 

 

[David Mantell]

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Posted October 29, 2013

All right, it's off to Germany and Austria we go.

 

Otto Wanz vs. Indio Guajaro (Recklinghausen 3/83)

 

This followed a pretty simple formula: some comedy to begin with, then Indio bent the rules and Wanz got pissed and beat the shit out of him. It's probably demeaning to Wanz, but if Big Daddy had matches like these he'd be a sure fire Hall of Famer.

 

Achim Chall vs. Caswell Martin (Hannover 1980)

 

I don't know the song Cas Martin came out to, but it sure was funky. Martin's stuff looked typically good, but I'm not sure he had the necessary drive to have great matches.

 

Franz van Buyten vs. Colonel Brody (Hamburg 9/20/87)

 

The last time we saw Brody he was working his 70s exotico gimmick. Somewhere along the way he traded it in for a South African military gimmick (as you do.) Ed Wiskoski would go on to pinch the gimmick and take it to another extreme, but Brody was still a nasty piece of work. He didn't do much in the way of holds, but they all looked like he was torturing a cadet during military training. van Buyten naturally was the right guy to sell that and so this was better than it had a right to be.

 

Otto Wanz vs. Bull Power (Graz 6/30/90)

 

This was tremendous. Arguably the best of the Vader/Wanz series, though admittedly it's the freshest in my mind. The anthems are played on a bugle while the crowd wave sparklers and sing along in full football voice. CWA sure took this pageantry seriously. The match starts off like any Bull Power/Wanz match with Vader beating the shit out of Wanz until the big comeback. In this case, Vader went for a splash in the corner and reeled backwards in agony. From there on out, he sold a knee injury about as well as you can without it being a legit injury. Wanz took full advantage, but his victory here had more to do with his staying power and ability to withstand the beating Vader unleashed. I don't now how many times the ring announcer told Vader to get out of the corner, but it was amusing.

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Posted November 4, 2013

Axel Dieter vs. Pat Roach (Hannover 1981)

 

I really want to like this match as it's 30 minutes of Pat Roach, whose matches we have are almost always joined in progress, but it just doesn't go anywhere. This is second or third time I've tried watching it and I still can't find a hook to get me into it. Dieter stymies the match early on with boring holds, Roach roughs him up a bit and Dieter makes a comeback, but none of it is uninspired. In theory, this should be as good as Dieter vs. Moose Morowski, but it doesn't play out that way.

 

Axel Dieter vs. Mile Zrno (Hannover 1981)

 

This was a good match. It was quintessentially European, which made it easy for me to understand. The work wasn't that slick early on, but everything from the second round onward was solid and Dieter mixed in a lot of cool shit.

 

Bull Power vs. Axel Dieter (8/30/86)

 

It's a shame this is clipped as Vader brutalised the old man. Worth watching if you've got a spare couple of minutes.

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Posted November 7, 2013

Axel Dieter vs. Bob "UFO" Della Serra (Hannover 1981)

 

I wasn't sure what to make of Quebec wrestler Bob Della Serra before the bout, but he ended up giving Dieter the best technical match of his Hannover tournament. This was wrestled almost entirely on the mat. 30 minute mat contests shot on handheld are an acquired taste, but I was pleased to see Dieter use more of his skill even if there was no real arc to the match.

 

Bull Power vs. Otto Wanz (9/22/86)

 

Early Wanz/Vader match. I think this was a body slam challenge. We didn't get to see all of it, but it looked like typical Wanz/Vader action, though they'd get better later on. Wanz bleed.

 

Axel Dieter vs. Bull Power (9/29/86)

 

This had a cool dynamic while it lasted as Dieter showed some fight and didn't let Vader walk all over him. He kind of reminded me of old man Pat O'Connor here.

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Posted November 10, 2013

Axel Dieter vs. Klaus Wallas (CWA 9/16/86)

 

Dieter continues his fun brawling run at this tournament. I'm not sure whether he was supposed to be a heel or not, but it looked that way.

 

Axel Dieter vs. Tony St Clair (10/26/86)

Klaus Kauroff vs. Vader (10/26/86)

 

All this 80s stuff is clipped to the equivalent of 8mm reels, but it's fun to watch none the less. St. Clair was still pretty good in '86 and worked some neat exchanges with Dieter, and in the final Vader brutalises Kauroff. Kauroff was this short, stocky guy who tried to dish out some punishment with worked pro-wrestling style strikes and Vader just potatoed him. It was fun watching two in shape fat men pummel it out, but Kauroff was out classed. It's really hard to get a decent grasp on how good Germany was in the 80s because of the footage issues, but England had gone pear shaped around this time and Germany was much more interesting through to the end of the decade. How we're going to represent that on the Europe set I'm not sure, because you can only really rate and compare the longer Germany footage whereas this stuff would make a yearbook project. Still, if you liked Vader on the AWA and NJPW sets, you should fill in your Vader watching by checking out these clips.

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Posted November 11, 2013

Axel Dieter vs. Moose Morowski (Hannover 1981)

 

This was pretty awesome. While the Zrno and Della Serra matches have some nice holds, this was a Dieter match with an actual narrative as Moroswki beat on Dieter and Dieter had to make a comeback. Dieter was a pretty decent brawler and from the limited footage we have his brawls are perhaps more compelling than his technical matches. I'm not sure that this is as good as their 1980 match, but it was the best of his '81 Hannover matches thus far.

 

Axel Dieter vs. Le Grand Vladimir (Hannover 1981)

 

This followed along similar lines, although it was shorter and Vladimir wasn't quite as interesting as Morowski. Mainly it lent weight to this idea I have that Dieter was most fun to watch when he was brawling.

 

Bull Power vs. Klaus Wallas (8/31/86)

 

Finally, Vader was matched against someone who gave as good as he got. This was the most fun of the early Vader CWA stuff. Wallas just whaled on him repeatedly and Vader was his usual merciless self.

 

Bull Power vs. Steve Wright/Eddie Steinblock (1987)

 

As far as handicap matches go, this was pretty good. Wright and Steinblock had some fun double team moves working over Vader's arm and Wright did a bunch of cool shit once they had Power neutralised. Vader kind of shook off the arm work later on, but that's okay because he was busy pummeling Steinblock, which is what you want from Vader. Wright got sick of it, though, dropkicked the ref and choked Vader with some sort of cord, while the crowd got all excited and started gathering around the ring and thumping on the canvas. Fun clip.

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Posted November 12, 2013

More catchen...

 

 

 

Otto Wanz vs. Don Leo Jonathan (Graz 7/15/78?)

 

Otto Wanz vs. Don Leo Jonathan (Graz 7/12/80?)

 

 

 

Had some trouble dating these. The first match was a 45 minute handheld with slightly poor VQ (it was B&W basically), while the other was 12 minutes of colour footage. The trouble is that each uploader dated their match as 7/12/80. Originally, I thought the second match was a pro-shot version of the first, but the finish was different. The 45 minute match may be the 1978 CWA World Heavyweight Title change as the celebration at the end was befitting a title change, and Jonathan seemed to look older in the second match in so much as you can tell from a B&W handheld, but I don't see how we can have a full handheld from 1978.

 

 

 

Anyway, Wanz was younger here and in better shape. Jonathan was one of probably a litany of big men that Wanz faced over of his career and both these matches were pretty classic Wanz -- take a beating, make a comeback, wash, rinse and repeat. Jonathan took some pretty big bumps for a guy who was nearing the end of his career. I haven't seen a ton of Don Leo Jonathan, so I'm not sure how good a showcase this was or whether he was restricted by his role as the generic cheating American with his all-in wrestling style, but it worked well and the pair were a good match-up. I can't tell you how much I enjoyed actually watching pro-shot stuff, though. It's so hard to concentrate on handhelds. You miss so many details without the benefit of medium close-up.

 

 

 

Klaus Wallas vs. Jörg Chenok (Bamberg 4/3/83)

 

 

 

I quite like Klaus Wallas. He was an Austrian judoka who represented Austria at the '76 Olympics, if I'm not mistake, and debut around '78. He seemed to get the hang of wrestling pretty well. He knew how to clobber people and how to sell and struck me as a guy with good timing. This was a decent showcase for him and featured some neat work from Chenok as well.

 

 

 

Axel Dieter/Eugen Wiesberger vs. Ivan Strogoff/Klaus Wallas (1983)

 

 

 

Decent tag match. Better than anything I've seen from England in the same time frame, but I don't think we're ever going to find a tag match from Europe that ranks among the greatest tag matches of all time. There was a loose FIP structure here and some nice work from Wisberger on the face side, along with some strong Dieter segments and more good wrestling from Wallas, but ultimately it as just a match.

 

 

 

As a bit of an extra, if you go to around 5:10 on this clip, you can see the workers camping at one of the summer German tournaments and Alex Wright is practicing backbends at the age of 10 --

 

 

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Posted November 16, 2013

Axel Dieter vs. Pat Roach II (Hannover 1981)

 

These two fought three times during the 1981 Hannover tournament. The first two matches ended without a winner and Dieter won the final match. This was one of the matches without a winner. Whether it was the first or the second, I'm not sure, but try as they might they didn't seem to have a great match in them. Roach dominated most of the bout before Dieter made a comeback in the final fall and the match ended with Dieter continuously throwing Roach over the top rope, presumably after time had expired. I love Pat Roach, but he couldn't deliver the same sort of beating as Moose Morowski. I'm guessing it's a stylistic difference between North America and England, since outside of the halls they never really brawled in England. Some of the finer details may have been better in close-up, but I wouldn't rank this stuff among the better moments of Pat's career. Dieter won the Hannover World Cup five or six times, which in my mind makes him like the German Tibor Szakacs, who won the Royal Albert Hall Tournament Trophy five times, but much like Szakacs we have nothing from Dieter's prime and he comes across in these '81 Hannover matches as having about as much charisma as Ray Steele.

 

Axel Dieter/UFO vs. Ed Wiskoski/Moose Morowski (Hannover 9/15/81)

 

This was probably the best tag match I've seen from Europe covering as much 60s-80s footage as I can find. It's probably no surprise that three out of the four competitors are North American. Christ knows why it had to go so long. Thirty minutes plus without a winner and without the hot finish it needed to be a surefire nomination for the Europe set, but still it was a proper tag match. Funnily enough, they didn't apply Southern style tag psychology, it was just solidly worked instead of being treated like some kind of amazing stip match where there's no wrestling. Portland fans may be interested in Wiskoski's work, perhaps.

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Posted November 24, 2013

Axel Dieter vs. Karl Dauberger (Hannover 1981)

 

This was a shorter match than a lot of the Hannover draws, so we got to see what Dieter could do when he upped his workrate. Fun match, but three rounds is too short. If Dieter could have maintained this sort of workrate over six rounds, his matches would have been really good.

 

Franz van Buyten vs. Ivan Strogoff (May 1981)

 

Strogoff looked a bit like Terry Rudge and wrestled like him too, which is a very good thing. I dug this a lot as I'm a mark for van Buyten. He did some cool strength holds where he had Strogoff in a submission and lifted him off the mat. Strogoff took control of the match with some solid brawling, but the match ended up being called off as Strogoff's second (possibly Lasartesse?) got involved and caused a big brawl.

 

Giant Haystacks vs. Klaus Wallas (Hannover 1985)

 

This was about as good as a Klaus Wallas vs. Giant Haystacks match could be. Don't tell me this means I need to search for good Haystacks matches. Oh God, I just did a YouTube search.

 

Axel Dieter vs. Steve Wright (Hannover 1981)

 

This was better than I remembered. I've kind of softened on Wright since I saw his early 70s World of Sport footage, but I still consider him something of a disappointment footage wise. Nevertheless, he looked like the best opponent Dieter faced in this tournament and we got to see much more of Dieter's technical ability than in previous fights. Unfortunately, it went to a draw as per most of these Hannover fights. It's a wonder anyone ever won the Cup with the number of draws there were. I wonder if draws forced a replay?

 

Axel Dieter vs. Klaus Kauroff (Hannover 1981)

 

This came across as a bit of a blockbuster since Dieter had won the Hannover tournament in 1980 and Kauroff would go on to win it in '81. Kauroff was a Maurice Vachon looking wrestler who was a pretty decent grappler. There was an intensity to this that was missing from a lot of Dieter's other matches and although it ended in a draw (again) it was a compelling and worthwhile match-up. Probably Dieter's best match of the tournament.

 

Franz van Buyten & Bobby Gaetano vs. Le Grand Vladimir & Judd Harris (Recklinghausen 3/83)

 

Fun tag match. Van Buyten and Gaetano made an awesome babyface pair. This was the best Gaetano has looked in the matches I've seen him in. He was balling in this match. I'm pretty confident in saying that Germany had better tags than England, though they haven't knocked one out of the park yet. This was quality houseshow-ish stuff, though.

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Posted November 28, 2013

Giant Haystacks vs. John Quinn (Bremen 12/21/85)

 

This was all right. I thought the psychology of John Quinn going up against Giant Haystacks was pretty sound, but it wasn't the kick-in-the-balls match that's going to get me watching a lot of Haystacks. He did throw some pretty wicked looking shots, though. And it was infinitely better than it would have been on British television.

 

Steve Wright vs. Maske USA/Catcher in the Mask (Bamberg 4/3/83?)

 

I don't know which name Maske went by, but it was Dave Morgan under the mask. Morgan was a solid Brit worker who spend most of his time overseas. We have footage of him from Germany, Austria and South Africa and possibly Canada. This was a decent Steve Wright showcase match with some cool Euro matwork in the early rounds. It descends into a niggly brawl with Wright getting too many payback spots for the level of niggle Morgan inflicted and shows the weakness in Wright's ability to structure matches, but if you like Wright it's worth watching.

 

Dave Viking vs. Dave Taylor (1980s)

 

I'm not much of a Dave Taylor fan, but this was a swank 8 minute bout. Viking was a journeyman brusier who knew how to beat people up and make it look good and Taylor sold well. Think of it as a solid WCWSN style match.

 

Judd Harris vs. Rolo Brasil (Bamberg 4/3/83)

 

Judd Harris was another journeyman. In fact, he was a guy who'd been on the road since the 60s. This was a similar bout to the Taylor/Viking match, but nowhere near as compelling. Harris wasn't as mobile and Brasil is decent, but not very charismatic. Pretty uneventful.

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Posted December 8, 2013

Dave Taylor & Bernie Wright vs. Colonel Brody & Butcher Mason (Hamburg 10/1/87)

 

 

 

Colonel Brody coming out to the theme from The Bridge on the River Kwai was the mark of a man who's put some thought into his gimmick. Nice touch. This came out of left field and did quite an impression on me. Our good friend Jetlag says: "For those wondering, Butcher Mason's gimmick was that he had an invincible gut. It is also hinted that he has inhuman strength in his hands. That leaves his beard and his feet as his obvious weakpoints. They ran an angle before where they challenged people from the audience to hit Mason in the gut and whoever made him wince would get 5000 DM in cash (enough money to buy a car at that time)." Brody and Mason made for a fun rudo team and the crowd was hot for Dave Taylor. I was digging this a bunch and wanted to nominate it as one of the best European matches of '87 and just as Brody and Mason were doing all sorts of cool heel work on Wright, there were two quick falls and the thing was over. Why can't you give me a hot finish, Germany?

 

 

 

Franz van Buyten vs. Butcher Mason (Hamburg 9/18/87)

 

 

 

Same deal. Here you have a guy in van Buyten who excels at working against bigger guys and does the coolest strength spots imaginable with big men, including the most boss throw of Mason that really needs to be seen to believed, and the match is hot and building into something good and then they go all silly buggers on the ending.

 

 

 

Charly Verhulst vs. Mile Zrno (Graz 7/12/80)

 

 

 

This was good. Verhulst was Johnny Londos from the New Japan set and here he worked an up tempo, workrate match that was chock-a-block full of cool holds and awesome throws. Verhulst's takedowns were awesome. Zrno clearly liked this style of working, but I got the impression that it was Verhulst holding this together. What thrilled me the most was that they didn't cop out on the finish. It wasn't a blockbuster finish, but it was totally in keeping with the rest of the match and makes this a comfortable nomination for a Euro set.

 

 

 

Ritchie Brooks vs. Bernie Wright (Hamburg 8/18/89)

 

 

 

Ritchie Brooks had a mane Ricky Morton would have been proud of. This was all right, I suppose, but it was a match wrestled between Ritchie Brooks and Bernie Wright and that's about all it was. The action was better than the final years of wrestling on ITV, but it didn't blow me away.

 

 

 

Franz van Buyten vs. Klondyke Mike Shaw (Hamburg 10/7/88)

 

 

 

van Buyten again ruled at taking on a big guy and this was an awesome brawl for the first two thirds with Shaw looking pretty damn good. Then the silly buggers began. It wasn't too bad as van Buyten dished out a bit more punishment before the screwy finish, but fuck me I want the world to know the name Franz van Buyten and this CWA booking ain't helping.

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Posted December 17, 2013

Bud Jenkins & Jean Sobek vs. Gino Rossini & Eddy Warrant (Herne 6/11/1988)

 

This was the most lucha looking match I have ever seen from a European promotion. In fact, if you squinted hard enough the heels even looked like Infernales. Really cool stuff with some beautifully coordinated sequences. Would have made a great addition to a feature Euro set, but true to form it cut out before the end.

 

Hansi Rooks vs. Dave Viking (Recklinghausen 1987)

Hansi Rooks vs. Frank Merckx (Recklinghausen 1987)

 

Undercard stuff. Basic journeyman brawling. Nothing to write home about.

 

Franz van Buyten vs. Suni War Cloud (Hamburg 8/10/87)

 

I was ready to write this one off since I found Suni War Cloud boring the last time I watched him, but leave it to van Buyten to hook me in. This looked pretty awesome, but it was clipped to the first and final rounds and judging by how many hugs they gave each other at the end it must have been a time limit draw. Forced me to take a re-look at this:

 

Terry Rudge vs. Suni War Cloud (Hamburg 9/20/87)

 

This was perfectly good Terry Rudge. Fuck knows what I was thinking the first time round. Rudge gave War Cloud a working over and the ref stuck his nose in one too many times and a spit between the two led to a red card for Terry. Like all German bouts, it needed a better finish, but it was worthy Rudge and watchable Rudge.

 

Indio Guajaro vs. Wolfgang Saturski (Bamberg 4/3/83)

 

I've been trying to find a good Indio Guajaro Germany match on par with his match against Pete Roberts from WoS, but we'll never know if this is the one as whoever edited it had a field day using every dissolve effect known to man and most of them in rapid succession.

 

Billy Samson vs. Butcher Mason (Hamberg 10/8/87)

 

This was a lot of fun. For some reason, there's 40 mins of this available and so little of the stuff you really want to see, but this was good heavyweight stuff. Mason ended up selling the fuck out of his leg and despite Rudge urging him on in his corner, Samson took him to the pay window.

 

That pretty much ends my German vacation. I came away with a far greater appreciation for German wrestling than I'd ever had before, but it's still frustratingly incomplete. When the matches aren't clipped to shit, they either go too long or are marred by a shitty finish. Nevertheless, from '86 onwards it's clearly better wrestling than anything in the UK.

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Rene Lasartesse vs. Billy Samson (Graz 7/12/1980)

 

This had a cool dynamic as Samson allegedly was a sparring partner for Muhammad Ali, so you've got Lasartesse doing all these dirty tricks and Samson getting all fired up and sparring with him, but because this is wrestling and not boxing he's kind of pulling his punches which allows Lasartesse to pull his dirty tricks again. My favourite story about Lasartesse is that in Britain they thought he was American, the Americans thought he was German, the Germans thought he was French, and the French thought he was German. That's the work of an accomplished rudo. After a bunch of fun and games, Rene did the McManus trick of selling his ears and won with a surprise small package. Could have done with a better finish, but this was fun and Lasartesse is one of the characters of European wrestling.

 

The above is @ohtani's jacket's reviews of German/Austrian footage from page 6-7 of the British Wrestling thread, moved here for greater convenience/relevance going forward.

I get OJ isn't American but given my remarks about IBV/CWA being American- friendly, perhaps it is no surprise that he prefers it to Britain of the same period.

[David Mantell]

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Posted January 22, 2014

If you see this in the next 3-4 days you should be able to download this 1964 Austrian tv report from Vienna with a young Crusher Verdu

 

http://apasfpd.apa.at/cms-worldwide/online...144909P_Q6A.mp4

@Indikator has this ever surfaced again since?

[David Mantell]

Okay, a subject for discussion - the home videos programme run by IBV/CWA and the similar programme run more cheaply by VdB.

What we know is that it started in 1980 and was still a going concern into the 1990s, perhaps up until the CWA's closure and replacement with EWP in 2000. Unlike television in the UK and France, it was never at the mercy of a TV exec who could cancel the videos like Greg Dyke. So when the WWF invaded, it was basically business as usual for the CWA and the German/Austrian tournaments.

Does anyone have a more in depth history of the video range?  How it came about? Stories from. It's evolution. The whole history in fact. Does anyone have more details?

[David Mantell]

A thought re the Otto Wanz phenomenon.  The big strong superhero lead blue-eye/babyface/Bon really started with the Hercules Cortez phenomenon. From there it seems to have inspired "Blond Adonis"  Shirley Crabtree as the top star of UK Opposition promoter Paul Lincoln, Otto Wanz in the CWA/IBV and more recently George Tromaras in 1980s  Greece.

[David Mantell]

At last! Evidence that the VdB DID know how how to use Johnny Saint rather than treating him as a sacrificial lamb for some heavyweight. First round is a bit slow with each man managing to keep the same hold for half a round (Rolo with a headscissors - I do like how he uses the forearm to tighten the scissorhold and prevent Saint getting his head out!  Then Saint with a standing full nelson). 

After that it's a good couple of rounds of fast paced Johnny Saint complete with Lady of the Lake sequence and the German audience lap it up.

It ends with a no contest - Rolo lands badly and Saint is offered but refuses a TKO.  I guessed @ohtani's jacket won't approve but it's nice to see the German audience get the point and that it's not just us Brits that mark out for these sportsmanly finishes.

 

[David Mantell]

Das Deutscher Catchen as people expect it. The IBV looking very CWA.  Big Otto in the ring against the man who in a few months time, sans peroxide and goatee, would be Brutus Beefcake, star of WWF vignettes as wannabe Chippendale in front of real female punters. Here he's still basically Dizzy Hogan, the Dave Sullivan of early 80s AWA. (the same Dave Sullivan who also popped up as Barbarian in CWA eight years later and as American Hawkwind in Britain.) Leslie is billed on the opening graphic as being from New York , the territory he would next head to. Not exactly a scientific contest, this is what Germans/Austrians had instead of Big Daddy.

From the French Catch thread:

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Andre Bollet vs. Franz van Buyten (aired 1/1/69)

Catch was getting all experimental at this stage. This had the commentary broadcast throughout the area. The bout featured a lot of cheap shots from Bollet and angry responses from van Buyten. I'm not a fan of this type of wrestling, and personally I think it's a waste of van Buyten's talents, but I did enjoy Bollet's bag of tricks

 

This happened sometimes in Britain, particularly at holiday camp shows where a redcoat or somebody would give the audience (casual holidaymakers rather than more serious wrestling fans from the Town Shows) a running commentary and basically get them to mark out properly. This has continued into the C21st and ended in tears a few years back when an Israeli Arab wrestler playing an Arab heel (as is traditional in Israeli pro wrestling) ended up getting called "the Muslim" by a redcoat, causing an offended holidaymaker to write to complain to the Guardian newspaper about Butlins promoting Islamophobia!  The end result saw Butlins and All Star amicably part company after decades with All Star getting a replacement deal with rival  holiday camp company Pontins while Butlins signed with some new school promotion - an arrangement that was meant to last until the smoke blew over but seems to have endured.

There was also an amusing camcorder clip from 1986 of Robbie Brookside versus a heel Chic Cullen where Cullen was using a closed fist punch and the Redcoat encouraged the kids in the audience to alert the referee by shouting "FIST!" which, as one wag put it,  resembled a disturbing juvenile version of the infamous Mineshaft nightclub.

This is another example.  The German MC shouts quite a lot of orders at Leslie, often in English. at one point calling him Sir like he is a customer in a department store. Are you being served Mr Beefcake? MC relays a lot of the referee's commands as well as the pinfall and knockout counts. When Otto and Bruti get brawling outside the ring, the MC gets really panicky - "Stop!  Don't do that!" like he's from the IBA in England.He actually says "back in the ring, please" in English! "SCHTOP HERREN!!!"

Otto rolls up Leslie for what seems like ages before getting a rather slow three count for the win after both men had tried pile drivers and backdrops and got near knockout counts on each other.

If the VdB appealed to wrestling connoisseurs that Kent Walton might have seen eye to eye with, the IBV/CWA was appealing to festival revellers drunk and stuffed on beer and sausage meat who just wanted a slug and punch between their hero Big Otto and the visiting arrogant Americans. This was in the middle of July in Graz so I'm guessing it was on the same bill as one night of a multi night tournament.  Kind of like a Flair title defence or a Dusty Rhodes Vs Bubba Rogers bunkhouse match or Midnight Rider Vs JJ Dillon bullrope match in the middle of one night of the Crockett Cup.

 

[David Mantell]

From just before Christmas 1985, Baron Von Rashcke, taking time out from fighting the good fight against Jimmy Valiant for Paul Jones's army.does his goose stepping Nazi gimmick in front of some real Germans. You can tell  Raschke's an American , he goes for the ropes, (this was MAJOR heat in Britain.) and powers his way upwards out of holds. Billy Samson actually does one or two reversals. There's a long bit with Samson doing a single leg Boston Crab on the Baron driving a knee into the base of the spine and Charles iRaschke just sells it. A repeat application gets Samison the opening fall. After that it kind of descends into an American Wrestling match, lots of stomping on the mat that should have earned both men a couple of Yellow cards each I think Baron gets an equaliser with his Claw and Sampson gets a deciding pin after a series of dropkicks.

.No colour signal or audio. I think this is down to low generation copy rather than the camera - @sergeiSem might know and if he does THEN THAT IS ALL THE PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW.

 

[David Mantell]

Pure unadulterated German Catch tag match  all locals, VdB spot shown in a barn somewhere although the raised camera makes it look like WTBS Techwood Drive Studios. Shiny black ring canvas to give any professional camera crew kittens. Babyface winners get presented with a cup like it's France or something.

[David Mantell]

The great Austrian outdoors - mulletted babyface versus Lawler esque heel who outweighs him.  Babyface (looks like Tom McGee, ironic as Germany was gripped with BretMania at this time) gets a couple of Yellow cards, comes up with some clever escapes including a neat scoot through the legs and even a counter to being stomped dirty in the throat on the bottom rope- pushing the offending legup to send the heel over the top rope.) and ultimately gets the pin.

[David Mantell]

Clean wrestling between local Austrian star Michael Kovacs and European Middleweight Champion Jason Cross (he still technically is dormant champion in 2024 after 29 years but would have to drop 5 stone to defend it.) here wins another title. - the inaugural IWW* Jr Heavyweight Championship. This I believe wasin about 98/99.  Good technical wrestling and some bad broken English from the commentators.

* not to be confused with Irish Whip Wrestling,  an Americanised promotion in Noughties Republic of Ireland.

[ohtani's jacket]

CWA Bremen´95: ECF - Collins vs. Scorpio

It's an age since I've watched any of this stuff and one of the main YouTube channels has gone kaput, but let's give this a whirl. I'm assuming that Dirty Dan Collins is Danny Boy Collins doing a heel gimmick. David can correct me if I'm wrong. He's filled out a lot since the last time I watched a Collins match and has grown his hair out. There's not a lot of mat wrestling here because Collins is working heel and Scorpio isn't that great at it outside of fundamental US holds. Instead, it's one of those international junior style matches that were so common in the 90s as these guys toured the world. Collins appears to have modelled his game on Fit Finlay albeit with more athleticism. There are enough highspots in this to entertain most of the Bremen fans, but it's fairly mid tempo. 

[ohtani's jacket]

Collins vs. St. Clair (Bremen´95 - Chain match)

Collins comes out to Frankie Goes to Hollywood's Two Tribes, which is a respectable choice. Tony comes out to Simply the Best by Tina Turner. You can tell he's used it before as he fist pumps to the drum part right before the chorus. This is a decent match considering it's only 10 minutes long. It could have done with more blood and more violence, but that's asking a lot from 90s Catch. If it had been the 80s, you would have had 30 minutes of Collins grinding the chain into St. Clair's face. God bless Tony. I respect the fact that he was still working in the 90s. He knows what he's supposed to do with the chain in these types of matches, but he's incapable of emoting any sort of anger or rage. At least they were active. 

 

 

[David Mantell]

1 hour ago, ohtani's jacket said:

assuming that Dirty Dan Collins is Danny Boy Collins doing a heel gimmick. David can correct me if I'm wrong.

You're basically right except he basically reinvented himself as Dirty Dan in 1994 during a triple tag that a six man tag across the pond) where he fell out with partners the Liverpool Lads and basically did a Zybysko 79/ Windham 88 heel turn that was probably 1994's biggest storyline - such a hit that Robbie Brookside similarly turned on Doc Dean in 1995 (Robbie's first non-hypnotised heel stint and a first go at the Wildcat who would be a MASSIVE heel in Noughties Germany as Bryan Danielson mentions in his YES! book.) Although I have seen footage from December 1993 where Danny is clearly experimenting with the character.

As Dirty Dan he went on to win his highest weight title the British Light Heavyweight championship from Alan Kirby in 1996 before losing it back in 1997. He stayed heel all the way up to his first retirement in 2002. Here he is in the CWA's successor the EWP in 2001, tagging with Drew McDonald the man Big Daddy helped him pin in 1987:

as well as in solo action with James (who himself went heel for a year after this 2002-2003 and still sometimes gets a bit 'funny' against fellow blue eyes like Dean Allmark and Joel Redman/Oliver Grey) :

He did turn back to good on Orig Williams's (non WWF tribute) shows in 2000 to feud with brother Pete who had gone from being a College Boy to being Mr Vain, an vn nastier heel than Dirty Dan.  He also started out on his 2007 return to All Star as a blue eye teaming with Dean Allmark but later returned to his Dirty ways. becoming World Heavyweight Champion for the Knight family's WAW in Norfolk. These days he has a backstage role as one of several Lord Protectors (along with Laetitia Dixon) to Joe Allmark, boy king of British Wrestling promoters until he can fill out his grandfather Brian the Guvnor Dixon's shoes. (Getting this back to Germany, Dixon refereed as Brian George on quite a lot of CWA shows.)

[David Mantell]

Eventually in 2012 Collins got his revenge for all the beatings Finlay gave him and bashed his son in Croydon. This led to the Finlays taking on Dirty Dan and Wildcat Brookside Xmas 2012 in Dad's retirement match in Germany:

I know about all the intervening years but it's still a bit surreal to see them both as evil villains after remembering them both as nice young scientific sportsmanly kids.  A bit like seeing Sting and Lex Luger as WCW lead heels in late '99 and remembering them winning the Crockett Cup 11 years earlier.

 

 

 

 

[David Mantell]

When Big Otto couldn't get famous Americans he would get completely unknown ones. Apparently Barbed was a jobber in the WWF the next year but that's all anyone knows about him.

http://wrestlingclassics.com/cgi-bin/.ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=038699;p=0

Match is generic 80s American power match. Germany/Austria, specifically the IBV/CWA, was the gateway Euro territory for North Americans just as Stampede in Calgary was the gateway territory for Europeans, especially the British. (Some French Catchers like Jean Ferre, Edouard Carpentier and Rene Toilet used the conveniently Francophone Montreal as an entry point.)

 

[David Mantell]

On 5/6/2020 at 8:34 PM, Ricky Jackson said:

This bad boy just turned up yesterday 

Has anyone committed the time and know if it's worth a watch? 

 

On 5/6/2020 at 10:25 PM, Robert S said:

I just watched the pre-match stuff and it sounds like (I am 90% sure) the crowd did not learn in 37 years (okay 30 years after it became official) to not sing the "Deutschland, Deutschlan über alles" verse of the German anthem (which was identified with the Nazi regime and therefore the anthem switched to using the third stanza). At least by 89 (for the Vader match), they knew that singing "Deutschland, Deutschland über alles" was a bad idea.

 

On 5/7/2020 at 12:29 AM, ohtani's jacket said:

I'm pretty sure there was a Slaughter/Wanz match already out there. Not sure if this is a different match. 

 

On 5/7/2020 at 1:44 AM, NintendoLogic said:

There's a Slaughter/Wanz match on 7/9/83 that's been in circulation for a while. This match that just got uploaded is a different one. It looks to be about twice as long and is fought under the rounds system.

 

On 5/7/2020 at 1:44 AM, NintendoLogic said:

There's a Slaughter/Wanz match on 7/9/83 that's been in circulation for a while. This match that just got uploaded is a different one. It looks to be about twice as long and is fought under the rounds system.

 

On 5/7/2020 at 11:15 AM, Jetlag said:

The pro-shot Wanz/Slaughter match was in Graz (Austria). This one happened in Bremen.

 

It's good, if you can enjoy an Otto Wanz style match which is really unlike other types of pro wrestling. Slaughter kicks ass and bumps big, and there are no lengthy restholds which is good for such a long match. The most amazing thing is how over Wanz is. People were just flipping out for everything that he did. The 1st 5 minutes of the match is just the announcer reading  "sympathy premiums" (a small money bonus that fans could pay to their favourite wrestler) that Wanz received. That must have been several hundred DM Wanz made just by being there and being beloved. That kind of workrate won't come back, ever.

 

It's not as good as the Graz match since it doesn't have (visible) blood and you don't get the visual of guys heads being smashed into the glass protective wall but if you're Wanz fan or just want to see Slaughter being a badass heel you'll be happy.

The really amazing drops are those chain matches from 1991. I had no idea those happened let alone that they were taped.

 

On 5/15/2020 at 4:10 AM, Ricky Jackson said:

Watched this today. God, Wanz sucks. Like, the worst ever Bob Backlund. Horrible babyface. Slaughter is great and tries to make something of the match, but it is an impossible task. This is the first full Wanz match I've ever seen, so please, someone point to something worthwhile from the footage available of him. I dont want to be a total dismissive jerk 

 

On 5/15/2020 at 10:18 AM, Jetlag said:

You know, I find the statement that Wanz is a horrible babyface funny. Given he is right there getting insane reactions for the most basic shit. I'm not argueing he is good based on that, but he certainly gave the crowd exactly what they wanted. The crowds in Bremen were huge, too, so it's not like he was some niche indy guy appealing to a specific minority fanbase. It's fine if you don't like his 40 minute long forearms & body slams style of wrestling, but to say he was a horrible babyface is pretty much as close to being factually false as you can get in internet discussions of 38 year old handheld matches.

 

On 5/15/2020 at 10:18 AM, Jetlag said:

You know, I find the statement that Wanz is a horrible babyface funny. Given he is right there getting insane reactions for the most basic shit. I'm not argueing he is good based on that, but he certainly gave the crowd exactly what they wanted. The crowds in Bremen were huge, too, so it's not like he was some niche indy guy appealing to a specific minority fanbase. It's fine if you don't like his 40 minute long forearms & body slams style of wrestling, but to say he was a horrible babyface is pretty much as close to being factually false as you can get in internet discussions of 38 year old handheld matches.

Here is the 1983 rematch in colour. I believe the storyline was that Slaughter claimed he was robbed in the 1982 match because he was confused by the Euro rules, so he and Wanz met in an American rules rematch.

I think the 1982 bout was professionally shot, it has a multicamera setup similar to other big Otto matches of the time.  I imagine @sergeiSem just had a low generation copy of the footage, or maybe he had watched it a lot.

I'm struggling to grasp the comparison between Bob Backlund - technician, about the only American to really master complex folding presses - and Otto Wanz - burly bordering on obese power wrestler, like a cross between Big Daddy circa the 1977 John Elijah bout (before Max Crabtree made him work strong) and Dusty Rhodes minus the white funkster showmanship.

[David Mantell]

On 8/13/2024 at 11:41 AM, ohtani's jacket said:

CWA Bremen´95: ECF - Collins vs. Scorpio

 

Actually when 2 Cold debuted in 1992, Danny Boy Collins would have been just the opponent my 18 year old self would have booked if I were booking a WCW versus Britain supershow.

[Ricky Jackson]

I believe the comparison of Backlund and Wanz I was making was to them taking 80% of a match and not anything to do with similar styles

[PeteF3]

I would assume that King of Prussia, Pennsylvania's favorite son Mr. Barbie was booked through Andre the Giant, since he was one of Andre's road caretakers/bodyguards.

[David Mantell]

On 8/13/2024 at 12:03 PM, ohtani's jacket said:

Tony comes out to Simply the Best by Tina Turner. You can tell he's used it before as he fist pumps to the drum part right before the chorus.

Chris Eubank - the top heel in 1990s British boxing - used that as his theme too.

[David Mantell]

7 hours ago, Ricky Jackson said:

I believe the comparison of Backlund and Wanz I was making was to them taking 80% of a match and not anything to do with similar styles

Backlund just needed another Backlund to have lengthy chain sequences with, imaginatively and gracefully reversing each others holds. You try doing that with people like Jesse Ventura and Killer Khan. Now if only he had Tony StClair or Pete Roberts. Bobby was wasted on New York.

Otto would be absolutely murdered like Dusty by people like Bull Power (Vader) before valiantly battling back for the win.