OJ's WWWF/WWF thread

[ohtani's jacket]

Bruno Sammartino vs. Superstar Billy Graham (WWWF, 9/17/77)

This was another great Bruno vs. Graham match. Part of me wishes that Bruno had won the title back from Graham just so that we could have had a proper blow off to this feud. Graham is so good at stooging. I'm not a stooging guy for the most part. I'd rather watch a Thesz match over a Buddy Rogers match. However, I can appreciate the art of stooging when it's done well, and Graham was fantastic. These guys got so much mileage out of simple holds like a full nelson, test of strength, and a bear hug. That wouldn't impress me in a regular bout but when the heat is this molten, and the kick-punch stuff is so good, it's impossible to not have a dumb grin spread across everyone's face. For some reason, the ref was mic'ed in this bout, and boy did he talk. I guess most refs would sound the same if they were mic'ed, but it was as loud as the television commentators and provided a running commentary throughout the match. Just saying. 

[ohtani's jacket]

14 hours ago, elliott said:

 

I would go the other way & just say that he did more than bump & sell for me. He is great working & milking strong man holds like bear hugs, full nelsons, things like that. He'd even come off the top rope. He's not 70s Jumbo out there offensively but hes also not Mr Perfect

I think he strikes a great balance of maintaining his credibility as a power wrestler while bumping & stooging like crazy for opponents. 

Who do you like more, Patera or Graham?

[elliott]

I've thought so much about these two in regards to rating them for GWE in general and against each other. To save myself from accidentally writing 5,000 words on this, I'll just say 70s Superstar. 

[ohtani's jacket]

Bruno Sammartino vs. Superstar Graham (WWWF, 2/18/78)

This was my least favourite of the Bruno vs Superstar matches. It was an entertaining match by any standard, but it felt like an abbreviated version of their matches from '77, and I wasn't a far of the finish regardless of the circumstances surrounding it. 

Bob Backlund vs. Superstar Graham (WWWF, 9/16/78)

This didn't match the intensity of Bruno vs. Superstar, but it was a good match. The early control segment from Superstar showed more versatility than he showed in the Bruno feud, and is a good example of what Superstar was capable of offensively. I wasn't a fan of the transitions surrounding the stretcher. The stretcher was awkward in general. It was an old hammock style stretcher that was difficult for the refs to use, and it appeared that they only had to dump the wrestler out of the ring to end the match. Backlund and Graham made up for it with some decent brawling and left me wanting more from them. 

Bruno Sammartino vs. Superstar Graham (WWWF, 10/23/78)

This was a decent coda to their feud, and I liked the angle surrounding whether Bruno was the same as he used to be, but the magic was gone by this stage. It would have been nice fi Bruno had scored a more definitive victory, but I guess he proved his point. 

[ohtani's jacket]

Bob Backlund vs. Pat Patterson (WWF, 8/27/79)

This was a standard Backlund/Patterson match with an exciting finish that set up their cage match.  I love how Backlund doesn't give a fuck. He'll rip the foreign object from the heel and use the brass knuckles himself, and even has a go at the ref here. He gets grief for being all howdy doody, but he had to be one of the angriest babyfaces ever. 

[ohtani's jacket]

Bob Backlund vs. Pat Patterson (WWF, 10/20/79)

This is one of the better Backlund vs. Patterson matches. It starts off with the typical babyface shine where Bob kicks the heel's ass, but the back half of the match is a great scrap where Pat gigs like a mofo. They do a great finish where it seems like the ref is about to call for a blood stoppage, but Bob shoves him out of the way and gets DQ'ed. Not sure why this doesn't get talked about more. It's just as good as the July match and better than the cage match.

Bruno Sammartino vs. Greg Valentine (WWF, 10/22/79)

This is a fun match that never rises above the level of good, but it's still cool to see Bruno work with the Hammer. The interesting part to me was that they sold this as Greg's chance to work his way back to the number one contender slot yet they didn't give us any idea of what Bruno's motivation was at this stage.

Bruno Sammartino vs. Ivan Koloff (WWWF, 10/13/75)

This was clipped and aired in some capacity years later with Gorilla Monsoon commentary. It was too clipped to judge completely, but I'm not really sold on Koloff in the WWF and this didn't help matters. 

Bob Backlund vs. Pat Patterson (WWF, 11/17/79)

This was a weak end to their feud, but unless they were prepared to subvert their usual formula of Backlund dominating the bout, I don't see how it could have been any different. 

[Ricky Jackson]

Hmm, I dont think I've seen the Oct Bob v Pat, only the Nov match that I remember being a letdown. Need to get around to that, it sounds great 

[ohtani's jacket]

Bruno Sammartino vs. Ken Patera (WWWF, 1/17/77)

This was Patera's debut in the Garden. Bruno's young protégé, Larry Zbyszko, is introduced to the crowd before the match, which is amusing in hindsight. The match was a decent start to Patera's feud with Bruno, though it works best whenever Bruno is on offense and Patera is selling. Ken needed to add a few moves to his arsenal to be interesting as the bearhug doesn't really cut it. It's interesting how the WWF was still using scrawny, older refs at this stage. They sure loved a controversial finish, and not a lot of them made sense. Patera didn't seem to get much heat from his win here, so it's interesting that they did repeat business. 

[ohtani's jacket]

Ken Patera vs. Billy White Wolf (WWWF, 6/11/77)

Things had changed for Ken in the months since his MSG debut as he was drawing shit tons of heat before the angle where he broke Billy White Wolf's neck. I love these old-school WWF injury angles and this is one of the best.

Bruno Sammartino vs. Ken Patera (WWWF, 8/29/77)

This is a shitty Texas Death Match even by WWF standards, but if we focus on the positives then Ken was drawing a shit ton of heat compared to his debut, the parts where Bruno beat him up were exciting, and he had a fun crowd taunt. There was no blood and the finish was "controversial," but mostly I was surprised that they didn't put over Patera's neck breaker more given Bruno's neck history. Seemed like a missed opportunity. 

[ohtani's jacket]

Bruno Sammartino vs. Ken Patera (WWF, 11/8/80)

I kind of liked this more than their 70s bouts, largely because I think Patera was a better worker in 1980 than he was in '77.  I also liked the way that Bruno went after Patera's arm instead of just doing the typical kick-punch stuff. Patera sold it beautifully and it tied into the grappling they did in the beginning where Patera had to resort to a hair pull because he couldn't match Bruno's strength. The finish worked as well, as the commentators put over why Patera resorted to using a chair and even tried to make it seem like Patera was trying to break Bruno's neck when Patera applied his full nelson on Bruno after the bell. 

[ohtani's jacket]

Ken Patera vs. Bob Backlund (WWF, 1/21/80)

There's a different dynamic to Backlund vs. Patera that is more wrestling and strength based than the Bruno feud. Backlund was such a strong guy that it makes sense that they would grapple more. Not that Bruno was any slouch in the strength department, but he wasn't half the wrestler that Backlund was. This was a pretty intense wrestling match that turned into a wild pull apart brawl based largely on how tense it had been. I love the way they treated a ref bump in these days. The ref was seriously hurt the way you'd expect a ref to be if one of these guys bumped into him, and had to be stretchered to the back. Really nice set up for the Texas Death Match. 

[ohtani's jacket]

Ken Patera vs. Bob Backlund (WWF, 5/19/80)

I've seen this match several times before but this is the first time I truly enjoyed it. I'm not going to go on a big spiel about how it's one of the best matches of the era since the folks that know that know it already, but I do think it's interesting that the match draws a lot of attention even today since it was WON MOTY and is probably the most watched match from the era outside of Patterson/Slaughter. I never had much love for it with that casual level of interest, however watching it in context, I thought it was great. By that I don't necessarily mean that you have to see the match that set it up, or any key matches, but that it helps if you get a feel for the era before worrying about whether it stands up to other matches. 

[ohtani's jacket]

Ken Patera vs. Bob Backlund (WWF, 7/26/80)

This was a dead rubber match, but lots of fun. I feel it's safe to say that Patera was one of Backlund's best opponents. I've said it before, but I don't particularly care for special guest referees, or referees getting physically involved in a match in any sort of way, but Gorilla Monsoon is winning me over as a guest referee, and I got a kick out of the exchange he had with Patera where he gave me the big clothesline. 

Ivan Koloff vs. Bruno Sammartino (WWF, 3/26/79)

This was during the period where Bruno and Backlund  were in separate main events. It was never gonna happen, but I would have loved to have seen a Backlund vs. Bruno match at one of these shows. I'm totally down on Koloff in the WWF and this bout didn't help matters. Bruno over-extended himself as well, and his limitations as a worker were glaringly obvious. I'm sure I reacted to this more negatively than most people would, but I've got issues with Koloff. Before the bout, a babyfaced Ted DiBiase was introduced to the crowd. 

Bob Backlund vs. Buddy Rose (WWF, 11/25/82)

I'm not sure why I chose this bout to watch first. It's a short, workrate sprint where the lumberjacks at ringside do little more than cheerlead. The post-match locker room interview is more interesting than the bout. I love Bob's low key, serious interviews where he talks about the psychology of wrestling. Kal Rudman probing Bob was highly amusing. 

[ohtani's jacket]

Bob Backlund vs. Buddy Rose (WWF, 8/30/82)

This is such a fantastic match. Easily one of the best matches from Bobs title reign. I think there's two reasons for that. The first reason is that Bob was incredibly over at the Garden, and the second reason is that I don't think anyone expected Playboy Buddy Rose to give him such a good fight. I'm not even sure Vince thought Rose was going to be quite this good. What made the bout special was that it was more of a wrestling match than a stooge performance. I don't know who gave Buddy the keys to wrestle that night, but Backlund was totally on board with it and the crowd seemed to appreciate it. Interestingly, they couldn't reproduce this performance in Philly. Perhaps the heat made it magical. From memory, the same thing happened with Adonis vs. Backlund, but I need to watch the tapes again. Don't let 'em ever tell you that Bob wasn't over in New York. 

[PeteF3]

Vince says something in that match I've never heard any commentator say before or since for a main event, right as Buddy takes over: "Many people thought this would be an easy title defense for Backlund--it may not be so easy after all." I think Rose is an all-time great but it's striking how little seemingly anyone thought of his chances to actually win the title in a major territory.

[ohtani's jacket]

I picked up on that, too, but I'm not sure how much you can read into Vince's commentary.

Bob Backlund vs. Buddy Rose (WWF, 10/16/82)

This was a huge step down from their Madison Square Garden bout. Miles better than their lumberjack bout, but nowhere near as special as the MSG match. I think it's because it was more of a classic heel performance from Buddy than the challenge he put up at the Garden. Now, Buddy is good at the chicken shit heel stuff (some would say a master.) He gets into some serious jawing with the fans at ringside, and there's a dude with a "Playgirl" Buddy Rose cardboard sign, so Rose is definitely tapping into the heat he's generated, but watching Backlund pace back and forth like a caged animal while Buddy stales on the outside isn't what I wanted to see. The finish is rubbish, but explains why the return bout was a lumberjack match. It's a decent match if you like watching Buddy draw heat, but not a memorable Backlund performance by any stretch of the imagination. 

 

[NintendoLogic]

For what it's worth, Rose's Observer obit says he was seen by WWF fans as not on the level of the top heels in the territory because he allowed TV jobbers to score near falls on him rather than destroying them outright like most guys being built up for a title shot.

[Ricky Jackson]

Rose really should've gone to Crockett when Piper put in the word and I believe there was an offer. Not sure exactly when this was, but I would guess maybe 1980-81 when he was at his peak in Portland and he didn't see the need to mess with a good thing

[PeteF3]

From what I've read, it doesn't sound like Rose was particularly interested in leaving Portland except for the best of offers--i.e., the WWF and New York.

[ohtani's jacket]

Bob Backlund vs. Adrian Adonis (WWF, 1/18/82)

I was excited to watch this as it had been years since I'd seen it. It's the epitome of a slow burner. It takes a long time to get to the heights that you want it to reach. The finishing stretch is fantastic. It's everything you want from Adonis and Backlund. The working leading up to it? It's okay, but instead of building the anticipation it feels like they're holding back. I can see folks going either way on whether they think this is a great match. I'm not gonna lie, I thought the Buddy Rose match was better, but like I said, I can imagine someone else having a totally different take.

Bob Backlund vs. Adrian Adonis (WWF, 3/28/82)

I can't find the Philly match anywhere so I had to settle for their lumberjack match. I thought this was miles better than the Backlund vs. Rose lumberjack match. Better use of the lumberjack gimmick, insane heat from the Maryland crowd, and basically Adonis and Backlund throwing haymakers at each other for 15 minutes. I ended up thinking this was a really good match. Some great nearfalls, some tremendous camera shots and an awesome finish that was every bit as sensational as Vince made it out to be. Probably the best sprint version of an around-the-horn WWF feud that I can remember seeing. 

[ohtani's jacket]

Bob Backlund vs. Greg Valentine (WWF, 1/16/82)

I was curious to see Valentine in a cage match since it wasn't his natural environment. There was built around Valentine and Backlund trying to stop each other from escaping out the door, but I found it highly entertaining. There was a big figure four spot, Greg bled, and Backlund ultimately won with a badass piledriver spot. Dude was not afraid to be a badass babyface. The Philly fans lost their shit when Bob walked out of the cage. 

[ohtani's jacket]

Bob Backlund vs. Greg Valentine (WWF, 10/19/81)

Hard fought bout that ends with the belt behind held up. Backlund and Valentine's work in the 80s was a stepdown from their '79 feud mainly because of how short the bouts were, but it was still a quality match up. 

[ohtani's jacket]

Bob Backlund vs. Greg Valentine (WWF, 11/23/81)

This was a no DQ match for the held up title. Valentine snatched the title from the commissioner during his entrance and snapped it around his waist, which incensed Backlund. This was short and sweet. Vince made a big deal out of Backlund reversing the figure four. I'm sure it wasn't the first time Greg's figure four had been reversed, but it was a cool looking visual and Backlund sold it like it took a ton of strength. The count seemed fast but no one questioned that sort of thing when the babyface won. This was a fraction of the length of a regular match between the two, but I concede that not everyone wants to see these two grind it out for an hour. 

 

[ohtani's jacket]

Bob Backlund vs. Greg Valentine (WWF, 12/12/81)

This was a fairly intense bout between the two. Kal and DIck deliver a classic rambling call. For some reason, Kal is in a strange mood and keeps getting agitated by Backlund's mistakes. It's like listening to a dude at a bar get pissed at the TV screen when his favorite player is having an off night. There's another shitty finish to go with the other shitty Backlund vs. Valentine finishes, but the work itself is top notch. 

Bob Backlund vs. Don Muraco (WWF, 10/17/81)

Here we go. I know to some fans this match is the punishment that awaits sinners at the Seventh Circle of Hell, but armed with the knowledge that this goes broadway, a real man can stomach it. It's not like they do anything illogical. It's just slow. Even Dick and Kal get bored at times. They started off all fired up, but halfway through Dick is wondering how it's gonna last and starts talking about random shit like Backlund's teeth. The work isn't bad, it's just a stalemate. That word gets tossed around a bit, but this really was a stalemate. They could have wrestled for 8 or 9 hours and there wouldn't have been a winner. Staler than a month old loaf, perhaps, but I made it to the end and that's a badge of honor for me. 

[ohtani's jacket]

Bob Backlund vs. Don Muraco (WWF, 11/14/81)

Kal and Dick joke that this might go 90 minutes. The joke's not funny. These guys sure didn't mind working at a snail's pace. It's easy to blame Muraco for being deadweight, but Backlund wasn't exactly setting the world alight with his performances. Once again, the work isn't bad, but it's not that far off watching paint dry.