anarchistxx

I personally think he has just been coasting for years, maybe since 2009. Earning good money, getting by on the minimum possible, remaining over through his name, image, finisher. He seems to have no passion for the business anymore. And he has definetely been exposed by the sheer amount of television WWE have, especially with his singles matches being so homogenous and his spots so repetetive. Everything about him has been stagnant and uncreative for years - you can see that from the spot where someone dives off the rope and he hits them with the RKO. Genuinely huge reaction the first time...so just goes back to it again and again. Whether he has had a lacklustre career is harder to define. There seemed two points where he could be absolutely massive. 2004, with his initial push and Mick Foley basically making him, and the glorious title win...until HHH got the strap back in a truly hideous match and he never recovered. And 2009(?), when he punted Vince and attacked Stephanie. Reaction to that was HUGE at the time, I think some forums received their most ever traffic and people were convinced it was going to elevate him above and beyond...until he wrestled HHH at Wrestlemania in a truly hideous match and all the magic was lost. I think if you highlighted his best feuds and matches it could be a hell of a collection. I remember one IC Title match on Raw in 2003/2004 where he bled hardway after hitting the ring post and it really was superb. The Evolution stuff. Foley. Benoit. He was a lot better before he got really corny, with the banging the mat and the cheesy serpent faces and overstated mannerisms. He should have remained an arrogant, talented, pretty boy prick character with a nasty devious streak. One thing that got me about his initial era was how they wasted the big matches of Orton v Cena, Batista v Cena and Bastiata v Orton - those matches should have debuted as Wrestlemania main events, especially since they kepy Cena and Orton apart for so long. Felt like a real anticlimax in the end. The Wayne Rooney of wrestling? Exciting, promising start that leads to a solid career that despite the achievements and fantastic performance still feels like an underachievement.

Crowds like this pop anyone from the Attitude Era, and also those who haven't been on TV for a while. Vince is/was both. Am I the only one who doesn't rate Braun Strowman? Don't think he has a particularly good look, seems more like a hillbilly than some violent monster heel, and on the limited occasions I've seen him work he doesn't seem anything special. Wonder if it will be like a Bray Wyatt/Seth Rollins/Damien Sandow/Hyped NXT Guy type situation where people buzz over his stuff to begin with and then have to conclude eventually that he is pretty rubbish. Then again, I think Rusev is dated, boring and mediocre in the ring, so maybe it is a taste thing.

Going to reply first without reading the thread. Not seen any WWE in a long time before this. -- Well, that was a Wrestlemania. Not in terms of pure match quality, which was fairly mediocre, but in terms of a spectacle. The production values were insane - some of the best lighting I have ever seen, beautiful effects, colours, fireworks were insane, creative entrances, the attire, the camera work. Just phenomenal. WWE is the best in the world at that sort of thing on this evidence. Must have cost a small fortune. Stuff like the roaches crawling around the ring during the Wyatt/Orton finish, made no sense but was such a wonderful image and piece of creative film making. It was also fantastic in terms of #WrestlemaniaMoments, urgh. The Hardyz were a huge shock and the first time I'm marked out for anything in years, huge buzz in the crowd as well. The brilliant finisht to the ladder match. Steph falling through a table. Undertaker at the end in that crazy blue light. The Cena proposal. It could all have come accross as corny and manufactured but they just about pulled it all off. The individual matches? Not so great. Shane/AJ was a bizarre choice for a match in the first place - the only conceivable reason is that Shane wanted to have a #ClassicWrestlemaniaMatch and thought AJ could take him there. The whole thing made no sense - JBL hyping AJ as the best wrestler he has seen in years and then you have Shane McMahon chain wrestling him and winning. The match was worked so, so badly. This wasn't Angle/Shane with a worn out wrestler being almost shocked by a sprightly, fearless young man with weapons - it was a grey, balding bloke who wrestles part time going toe to toe and working a regular match without any caveats with someone hyped as the best pure wrestler in the company. Terruble choice for opener - crowd wasn't that hyped for it, got the big spots in too early on the show and was generally pointless. Kevin Owens v Chris Jericho was pretty much nothing. Not enough hatred for the way the feud was structured. Owens still looks like man in his backyard playing at being a wrestler, not authentic in the least or even threatening. Finish was odd. Not a terrible match exactly, but didn't hold my attention. The Raw Womens fatal four way was a huge disappointment. Weird, deflating finishes once again, never got a flow going, didn't tell any sort of decent story and was generally a let down. Better without the elimination stip I reckon. Felt like it needed Sasha/Charlotte desperately fighting it out at the end. Didn't help the crowd was flat during the match itself, which was the same during the whole show. Tag team ladder match was fun, especially with the energy the Hardyz brought. Forgetabble though, and nowhere near the same level as the 2000 and 2001 TLC era matches. Cena/Bella vs Miz/Maryse did its job and was one match worked exactly how it should be - concise, clean, to the point, getting the job done and not overstaying its welcome. No meandering or endless messy finishing sequences. Proposal put a smile on my face, glad the crowd didn't totally shit on it. I had reasonable hopes for Rollins v HHH - Trips has had some reasonable matches with HBK when he focuses on a body part and reins in his tendencies. It started well but quickly deteriorated, becoming exactly what I described above - meandering, fragmented, aimless. No beginning, middle or end, just this mush of things one after the other with no rhyme and reason. Average.] HHHs entrance was masterful though, ridiculous as ever but it still looked totally badass and Steph looked incredible. I must be fucking out of touch - Beth Phoenix in the Hall of Fame? Barely know who she is. Skipped Orton vs Wyatt except for the finish. Seemed a complete afterthought - so much for making Smackdown an equal brand. Lesnar/Goldberg was a blast. There is so little variety in a lot of WWE matches, especially near the top of the card - all the near falls and shocked faces and twenty minute matches with bombs, flying moves etc, no structure, it gets homogenous. So this was incredibly refreshing, basically a massive sprint where everything came off. Goldberg, though...massive payday to return, has two thirty second matches, another six minute match where he takes all of two different bumps and that is the end of the run. Bizarre. Even Hogan did more at his age. Loved Heyman's sleazy grin on the outside when Lesnar was delivering all the suplexes. The only match on the show that kept my attention throghout and didn't have me browsing the internet at the same time. I knew it would be Taker's last match as soon as I saw Jim Ross heading down to call it. JR did make me realise how dismally bland the announcing had been on the show, things instantly felt more meaningful and he spoke in a natural cadence with proper vocabulary instead of repeating stock phrases and WWE slogans. Love Reigns - he has so much natural charisma, he feels totally at home going on last at Wrestlemania in a way that someone like Miz or even Edge/Orton never did. Finally a match with a properly partisan crowd as well - even though they were partisan against the de facto top babyface in the company. Such times we live in. The match itself was a plodding mess. Roman definitely needs a new finish, the spear and jumping punch just don't look cool or impactful enough, especially for a man of his size. He should have some spectacular bomb that just wipes people out. The ending was anticlimatic, not helped by the crowd who were basically silent during another match. Taker's retirement scene saved it, almost got a tad emotional when he kissed his wife in the blue fog. So, to recap: cool show in terms of visuals, moments etc, but dear god I wouldn't want to sit through any of those matches again other than Lesnar/Goldberg. I'll be amazed if anyone reads that long ass post

Actually, it sort of does. That is the whole "WWE Universe" concept. I see little reason to talk about external topics on this board, especially in such politically charged times. There is a reason that people say you should not discuss politics at a party - it makes people instantly antagonostic and passionate in a bad way - "to be in a passion you good may do , but no good if a passion is in you" and all that. There are very few shades of grey at the minute, both sides of the political spectrum are getting increasingly extreme and hateful towards each other and views that do not aree with their own. Introducing that onto this message board opens up a gigantic cauldron and will lead to people falling out aggressively in a way that shouldn't happen if you are simply discussing the lazy selling of John Cena or the sloppiness of Bailey. There was a tendency when I was last on the board for people to post gifs and 'zingers' in place of actual discussion, or just flippantly and snidely shooting someone down without any discourse, which seemed the antithesis of what this board was about.

I wasn't necessarily talking in terms of physique - most average, working class people didn't have a body like Ricky Hatton in his boxing prime, but he still had the look, character and attitude of a regular man you might see down the pub, and that is why he was so beloved and connected with his audience. That is what Steve Austin had, the feel of being a real person and of having some authenticity. I just don't get that when watching Neville or The Miz or Dolph fucking Ziggler. I complained for a long time about how homogenous WWE workers were at a certain point, everyone had this boring cookie cutter look a few years ago and had nothing to differentiate them from each other in terms of appearance, gimmick, personality. They have tried to address that with some success, but a lot of the workers now are far too stylized to the point of not resembling anything like a real person.

Depends where you live I suppose - there are plenty of muscular, aggressive, working class bald men with a short fuse and an ability to humurously talk shit where I'm at. Men who dress and talk like Bray Wyatt, Braun Strowman and The Miz? Not really.

There is an extra layer to the Austin comparison, in that he looked and talked like a normal person, which made him far more relatable. He wore caps and jeans and street clothes and talked shit. Compare that now to the top stars who are exclusively seen in WWE merchandise to the point where they look like walking adverts...who unconvincingly trot out robotic, scipted, cliche ridden promos - it isn't surprising they fail to get over. One of their biggest recent stars was CM Punk, and he was one of the last top level guys who had his own style and identity in terms of look and felt natural in his promos and delivery. He seemed like a bloke who you could meet down a street somewhere. He was relatable.

Is the Tammy Sytch autobiography worth reading? Can pick it up for about £8. I like scurrilous gossip and sleaze, so aren't necessarily looking for something with literary merit or insight into the business, just something sordid and interesting.

Even if we are only talking US wrestling, that is still a massively erroneous statement. The 6-Pac was fun for what it was, a fun sprint and a showcase with some huge moments. As perfect as it was for this particular show, it wasn't a memorable classic by any means, far too many flaws for that.

Um, you would be going out on a huge fucking limb, yes. Ever watched any Joshi?

Skimmed through it but really enjoyed what I saw. The show had an incredible sense of energy to it - not sure whether it was the sound editing or just a hot crowd but the audience seemed really loud and into everything, which made the matches seem a lot more exciting and intense. Have to say the commentary was superb as well, less sloganeering and lines being fed and more engagement in the matches, gave the in ring action a very important feel. Some brief thoughts on the bits I saw: - That scene with Miz and the kid was terrible, and such a blatant example of product placement..."you can catch my show on Nickolodeon at 7PM on Wednesday nights" or whatever, wonder how much they paid WWE to air that - The 6-Pac ladies match felt like a ROH opener circa 2004. Total go-go-go spot-fest and a lot of convoluted setups and unrealistic sequences that seemed very rehearsed, but a lot of fun all the same. Definitely served a purpose in laying down a marker for the new division and giving everyone a bit of shine. - Ziggler v Miz was shockingly good. Can't stand either of them and they still got me really engrossed in it, there was a lovely flow to the match. It definitely felt that it could have gone either way - anyone who says wins/losses/finishes don't matter is wrong, the uncertainty here and the feeling that both men really needed to win it desperately added to the drama immensely. "This is awesome" chants still make me sigh in resignation though, especially since this was very much a match where the result seemed important rather than just putting on some athletic show for the crowd to 'appreciate'. - Bray Wyatt is hideously bad at this point, embarrassing to watch. His mannerisms make me cringe. He has zero believability, nothing about the character seems real, it just looks like a third rate actor playing a role and trying to seem quirky. Skipped the whole match with Kane. - Usos should have stayed on the same brand as Roman, their ring gear almost matches now and they would have made a superb little heel stable. The match with Rhyno/Slater was nicely worked and was a good change of pace on the card. That suplex into the ring post was really cool, despite the padding taking the edge off it a bit. The right ending as well. - Wasn't as high on the main event as some, felt like a sloppy mess occasionally. AJ still did a fantastic job though, and carried it through down the stretch when it got really fun, making it seem important and a desperate war. The way he took the lariat was superb. Best WWE show in a long, long time.

I don't really buy that this is a lifelong dream of his either. Don't think he ever even mentioned it until he quit the WWE and was at a loss for what do next in his life. CM Punk is known as a arrogant mercenary - isn't it much more likely that he was in UFC for the big pay day and the publicity rather than some sort of burning desire inside him? Nothing wrong with that, of course. There are people for whom fighting in the Octagon is a lifelong dream, and if it was an industry based on merit they would certainly deserve the shot more than some celebrity newcomer. But UFC is a commercial enterprise, and as such people can hardly complain that CM Punk didn't deserve to be brought in if it pops the ratings. If anything it is win-win for the promotion, because it shows just how difficult it is and how tough their fighters are when the presumptuous celebrity gets absolutely decimated.

Not sure it is strictly equatable. CM Punk taking up MMA and going straight into UFC is the equivalent of Ryan Gosling taking up soccer and going straight into the Manchester United first XI without paying his dues playing in the fifth division. Connor McGregor getting into professional wrestling and going straight into WWE is the equivalent of David Beckham taking up acting and getting a cameo role in a decent film and not paying his dues in art house movies. Still jumping the queue because of celebrity, but somehow less offensive and far less ridiculous.

That would be fine if Owens actually wrestled that way, instead of the ridiculous, convoluted overkill his matches usually end up being. His ring work doesn't smack of someone who just wants to beat his opponent efficiently and get paid, it looks like someone trying to have a self conscious epic and draw 'this is awesome' chants from the smarks in the audience.

Part of the reason Reigns v Lesnar was such a brilliant match is because they showed some structure and built a story, albeit in a much more maximalist way than a main event from a decade ago. You have the fired up heir to the throne being schooled by the veteran monster champion, getting thrown all over the place and realizing he is in way above his head. He manages to summon the energy for a counter and gets a lucky ring post shot to bust the overconfident monster open, and dives on that advantage with quick, aggressive offense, desperately trying to put him away while in the ascendancy. There were no convoluted spots or ridiculous sequences of near falls, just plain old fashioned storytelling. Just a shame the finish was so putrid - that was just the right moment for Reigns to go over. Because of the way the match was put together it was completely believable that he was able to slay the monster and take the throne. So the run in finish was awful, not even getting to the fact that some bloke running down with a briefcase and demanding an instant title match at the main event of your biggest show of the year, while the incumbent belt holder was injured and out, is about the most ridiculous thing ever. Completely devalues the strap, makes it meaningless if you can win a stunt ladder match and basically cash in and win the title whenever you want. I'm amazed WWE fans have become so conditioned to Money In The Bank, as hideous a concept as it is. After the first cash in with Edge, which was shocking and brilliant, they should have changed the rules whereby you need to give the champion 24 hours notice. It is about the cheapest way possible to further their 'anything can happen in the WWE' myth, and such a cheap way to get heat and create a shocking moment.

Not sure where this idea comes from that it is easy to have a fantastic main event match in WWE - most of them are no better than average, many are actively bad. Is that true nowadays? There are still the overused tropes of endless near falls, finisher stealing, announce table spots etc but if anything main event workers in WWE are working the style of indie wrestling circa 2006 which itself is a more flippy floppy version of puro circa 1997, rather than anything resembling the old identifiable 'WWE style'. If anything, you get the worst of both worlds now, because none of them can build a solid foundation for a match and show some restraint and structure in the first half. So you just get a bit of aimless move trading and waiting around until they start doing the go-go-go indie spots and trading ever more ridiculous nearfalls.

That is pretty much half the people on the roster now isn't it though? I'd say at least 25% of them veer aimlessly from main event to opener to midcard. They have created a roster of Chris Jericho's, who are massively flexible but at the same time have little credibility and are not perceived to be major level stars because they bounce up and down the card and job every other week to each other.

He was definitely irreplaceable but for different reasons. Rey was never going to be the centerpiece of the company, his indispensability obviously stemmed from how over he was with a certain demographic. As a worker Daniel Bryan could have been his heir. Someone who could work anywhere on the card with anyone and be believable and have fantastic matches. A pure babyface with good intentions who nonetheless got fantastic reactions from all sections of the crowd. Obviously DB was never going to replace him as a massive draw to the hispanic audience - not sure who can. Mistico looked the obvious one to try and step up but that was an unmitigated disaster. Suppose it is similar to trying to replace Steve Austin - you can have Dean Ambrose come out with a truck and be anti-authority and sabotage the boss, you can have but you will never capture the essence of the original.

I completely disagree with this. Not once have I ever thought that he had "it". He's replaceable. There have been people like him (Orton, mainly) and there will be people just like him for years to come. For now, he fits his role, and he's good in that position, more often than not. Think you picked a bad example there - Randy Orton is not replaceable in the least. In fact, since Orton, Cena & Batista became stars in 2004/2005 they have thrown everything at the wall to create other people on their level and haven't been able to do it. They have tried Sheamus, Alberto Del Rio, Dolph Ziggler and many, many others, and they have all ended up stale midcard acts or jobbing out every couple of weeks. The inability to replace the old timers has been a major problem for over a decade. They haven't created a real superstar, main event act for a long time, an act that will remain continually the centerpiece of the show. That is due to a mixture of poor booking that: a. Doesn't allow anyone to be elevated to that level due to short termism and having potential stars job out every week b. Fetishizes nostalgia to the point where old stars are perceived as infinitely more important than new talent The Shield was the first time when it felt they might finally build some superstars to carry the company forward in the future, and Roman Reigns was the clear headline act of that group. If Randy Orton was as dispensable as you say, they would have fired him years ago with his constant disciplinary problems and wellness violations. As it is, they always go back to him because he gets a huge reaction in arenas and is someone with credibility among the casuals. He has it, that aura of being a big deal, despite the fact he is fucking boring 99% of the time. Roman Reigns is not replaceable in the least. He is one of the only names on the roster who gets a guaranteed reaction every week, who instigates crowds to be loud and tumultuous and pay attention. You can't buy that.

Rusev doesn't do it for me at all. Think the regressive gimmick put me off from the start, so limited and archaic. In ring I don't particularly find his stuff enthralling either.

Reigns simply has it. He has a presence and aura that pretty much nobody else on the roster can match, with the exception of Brock Lesnar and John Cena. Even the woeful booking he has been subjected to hasn't taken it away - he is still someone you pay attention to on screen, and he is able to create the #BigMatchFeel in a company where matches mean fuck all anymore since everyone has wrestled each other a million times on Raw. Things involving Reigns feel like a big deal, in the way that something involving Sheamus or Kevin Owens or Dean Ambrose never does. In a weird way it helps him that the crowd is so vocal and tumultuous, as it adds an extra intrigue to his matches. If they let him acknowledge it, he plays off it really well. He begins to suck when they have him ignore it and still pretend to be the smiling face regurgitating awful scripted lines. He should talk as little as possible, and mostly in action movie type soundbites. Not sure he is a superworker in the classic sense, but he has had some very good matches and is a very capable, athletic performer in ring. He is definitely one of the best people of his height and build the company has had, in terms of his capabilities. In terms of the overall package I'd put him top three in the company, definitely. His moveset could use some adjustment - that awful 'Superman Punch' is way overused, and cheaply thrown in as a nearfall to protect the spear, which doesn't often look that good anyway. Feel like he needs a powerful bomb type finisher. He also busts out his dives and spectacular stuff too often - that should be saved for when he is desperate in a huge match a needs to turn it around. I would also like to see him bully people more and have shorter, brutal matches.

So here's a guy who got over because he isn't what a wrestler is supposed to look like, because he doesn't talk like a wrestler is supposed to talk, and works in a way that is different than how a wrestler is supposed to work...and you're mad that people who are actually paying the company want to see him? I've seen zero evidence that Kevin Owens is a draw, and that significant numbers of people pay to see him, or even that he is particularly over. He is moderately over with some (not all) live crowds, mostly on the basis of him having masturbatory overkill workrate matches every week and the smarks in the audience who pop for bombs and nearfalls thinking that makes him a good worker. You completely misread my post - it is nothing to do what a wrestler is supposed to look like, because workers of all different appearances and characters have been credible, successful champions. It is about projecting an aura, carrying yourself with charisma. And your comments about his mic work are off the mark, because he is desperately trying to talk how he believes a wrestler is supposed to talk in his promos, he just doesn't have the skill or natural charisma to pull it off and it seems as forced as his ring work. This is someone who has no idea how to work a match like a proper heel, no idea how to build a match slowly and draw in a crowd, no idea how to do anything subtly. Regardless of his appearance he has no business being the top guy in the company, but at least if he had a distinct, unique look and a sense of style about him you could understand it. He does not possess it. At all.

I do think his look is of some importance, though. And it isn't necessarily a superficial thing - it isn't that he isn't 'pretty' or 'marketable' enough to fit my beauty standards of a champion or anything like that. It is more to do with presentation. I'm not Vince McMahon in 2006 demanding my top workers are clean cut muscly athletes with short hair and a good size. It is more that a champion should look distinctive, should have a sort of aura around him, should seem like a 'top guy'. He should carry himself like an elite member of the roster, and that is to do with his mannerisms, his promo work, his dress, his presentation. His appearance should say something about him. I'm not asking for a generic look of a Randy Orton either. Daniel Bryan was a good fit as champion because his appearance of red trunks, pale body and generic clothes matched his gimmick of a tough underdog, a never say die pure wrestler. CM Punk was a good fit as champion because he had this distinctive, laid back style, a cool tattooed look that fit in with his alternative vibe and a snarky character that he took into his matches. Roman Reigns and Seth Rollins aren't necessarily your cookie cutter looking champions, but they both have distinct characters and traits that match with their look, the sleazy athletic desperate grease ball for Rollins and the badass-clad-in-all-black for Reigns. What does Owens look say about him? How does it progress or complement his character? Owens has bigger problems that his look. He lacks believability, is unnatural both on the mic and in the way he moves, has very little charisma, doesn't manage to appear threatening or dangerous whatsoever. He comes across as small time, as someone playing at wrestling and going out there to have a good match rather than to advance his character or get the fans involved in the actual angles and characters rather than just cheering 'this is awesome' at the athletic stunt show they are watching. I agree he would likely be better playing at Vader vs Sting rather than Kobashi vs Misawa, but does he have the restraint or skill or ability to do so? He seems to have no real gimmick - outside the ring he is maybe playing the obnoxious jackass, although he doesn't really pull it off that well...but inside the ring his gimmick is just of some workrate bloke trying to have the best match on the card and throw bombs and trade finishers until the crowd gets into it. When he does that look of shock after yet another 2.9 count, it doesn't draw you in and make you think he is truly shocked that he hasn't won...you are just waiting for the next meaningless spot. Especially because he does the same thing whether it is the second match on Raw or a PPV main event. And I think it is true to say that his look doesn't help matters. It gives him no identity, and that is what he desperately needs. TL;DR? It is presentation as much as physical appearance. It is the way he carries himself rather than his body. It is the clumsy way he works rather than the clumsy way he shaves.

You stink. Seriously. Go away . I knew you had an idea of what a master race should be but I didn't realize grimey and chubby white guys didn't fit in as well, you awful zero. Can you and El P merge into being a bottle of Vichy water so Claude Reins can throw you in a trash can and lightly kick you? Fuck me, where to even start. You are the biggest, dumbest, most bemusing WWE stan I have ever come across. Why don't we just ban criticism from these threads so every reply is just you ejaculating over whatever junk Vince serves you up this week. And if anyone does criticise the product, just throw around words like 'misogynist' or pretend that they are some vile, discriminatory bastard who 'stinks' and is an 'awful zero' who clearly dislikes the product for sinister reasons rather than the fact it is, you know, a repetitive badly booked horror show most weeks. Your opinions on WWE mean absolutely fuck all because you go into raptures about 90% of the product they serve up. Not even going to get into the irony of you throwing words like misogynist around like confetti to anyone who dares to criticize little Jonny's favorite TV show, while you spend years desperately pleasuring yourself over one of the most misogynistic, distasteful, backwards, despicable entertainment companies of all time who have made an industry out of objectifying women and running offensive angles.

Kevin Owens is horrendous - nothing is believable or natural at all, from his mannerisms to his his ring work to his his promos. He also has the worst look of any WWE champion in history - unshaven face, 3/4 length shorts, baggy vest covering up his pasty torso and beer belly. If you flicked over and saw he was the champion you would not be impressed. He is an awful worker as well, has no idea how to build a match or get a crowd involved without just resorting to throwing bombs and working endless finisher trading sequences that devalue anything. Every match is worked like a parody overkill version of a ROH main event, wherever on the card he is or whoever he is facing. He is formulaic as fuck, but smarks don't seem to mind because his formula is cosplaying Puro main events and desperately trying to rouse a 'this is awesome' chant. If he really wanted to heel it up he would bully jobbers in boring squash matches and work slow main events with lots of subtle heeling and cheating. He doesn't have the skill or gimmick to be a workrate champion or the look/charisma to be a dominant man on top. It's weird, I remember everyone complaining in 2004 how limited and eventless WWE matches were, when the likes of Benoit had his moveset reduced to about four moves so he could work the monotonous, slow WWE style. Crazy how far in the other direction it has gone now. I did sort of enjoy the surrealism of Kevin Steen beating Tyler Black for the World Title on Raw. Still, on a roster where you have Roman Reigns, Brock Lesnar, Randy Orton, John Cena, Seth Rollins, Triple-H, AJ Styles and with Samoa Joe, Shinsuke Nakamura and KENTA on NXT there is zero reason to have Kevin fucking Owens and Dean Ambrose as your champions. Neither have any sort of aura or credibility - for a start they have spent the last year jobbing 50% of the time in random television matches, before you even get onto the fact they both look like shit.