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Everything posted by Loss
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I have no idea who these people are who "know their shit" ... even Cornette talked a good game and has shown himself to be pretty badly out of touch. It's pretty sad when I can't even think of someone in reserve who would be a great booker to bring in. TNA has learned to copy all of the worst aspects of WWE, one of those being adding unnecessary bureaucracy in management and firing people whose absence isn't going to turn anything around.
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That sounds amazing. All this while trying to convince Tessa she made a mistake in leaving him for Dundee. He starts sending her gifts and in every promo, he makes sure to mention that he has been reading self-help books and is a CHANGED MAN. Unfortunately, Tatum ended up in prison before the end of the year when he violated his parole by using drugs. His real history with Eddie Gilbert and his drug problems made this a little uncomfortable at times, because he's playing an unfiltered psychopath -- spontaneous fits of tears in squash matches which result in him apologizing to his opponent and the announcer and referee, being overcome with guilt when he's outwrestled some curtain jerker and suggesting that maybe he shouldn't take the win because it's selfish -- but it's still really compelling.
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Footage exists for Texas through mid-September, when they were kicked off of KTVT after John Tatum superkicked Tessa and Austin splashed Toni Adams from the top of a cage in a mixed tag match on the same show. Not long after that, Kevin Von Erich took back over Texas after a dispute, Jerry Jarrett left the area and there is no TV from there until Jarrett steps back in at the tail end of December. Most of that will end up on the '91 yearbook since that's when they aired, except for a couple of standalone matches that are really good.
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I found it in a few different places after digging around and forking over more money than I care to say. After the 1990 yearbook is released, I will make all of the footage (I have almost everything from Dallas as well, including lots of arena matches that aired in full on USWA Challenge) available.
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Oh Phil, I gave you the wrong date for that match. It's actually 5/28. They had another match on 6/11. I was able to better confirm the timeline after getting all the WMC-5 Memphis footage. Evansville would throw stuff from random weeks together sometimes.
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I forgot to mention Lawler/Snowman! Jerry Lawler works redneck UWFI style! I am NOT joking. I floated one of the Lawler/Snowman matches to a few people who can vouch for me on that, that I am not crazy in saying that. The takedowns and strikes are pretty outstanding. Tim, one of their matches is on the Evansville set and I'd really be interested in hearing your thoughts on it when you get to it. Four others aired in Memphis only that are worked similarly. Also, Lawler vs Leon Spinks!
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I should also add that there are feuds like Steve Austin/Chris Adams that will be represented very well on the 1990 yearbook that aren't covered on the Evansville set at all because they only worked Texas. And while the Dundee/Tatum feud clips represented on the Evansville set are fun, it doesn't really do justice to how awesome that feud was at times. John Tatum's descent into madness is one of the most eerie things I have ever seen in wrestling. He's wrestling Bubba Fangman on an episode of Championship Sports and is extremely depressed over the loss of Tessa. He's seeking hugs from the referee and his opponents. When fans heckle him, he just grabs them and hugs them and won't let go, which is pretty funny. Anyway, those same hecklers are persistent and he snaps and actually throws Fangman into the front row! He immediately breaks down in tears. A female fan chastises him, telling him he could have hurt someone! He says, "I know! I'm so sorry" and is hysterical. He finally runs out of the building in shame.
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The Evansville set is just barely scratching the surface of the great footage that exists for the year. There is great stuff both in Memphis and in Dallas that will blow people away. We'll probably have to make some edits at some point, but at this point, I have 120+ Jerry Lawler promos that all feel great in their own way and like must-haves. This is the year to pick up to really assess his GOAT candidacy too, as he's in a variety of long matches against guys on polar opposite ends of the spectrum -- guys who don't get a lot of praise like JYD and Jimmy Valiant, and guys who are pretty well regarded like Jeff Jarrett, Eddie Gilbert, Terry Funk and Bill Dundee. He was also really the only world champ-level guy in wrestling at this point who's traveling from place to place. This set has him in Memphis, Dallas and Florida. I will say that there is one thing that sometimes bugs me about Lawler as a heel, and that's when he works the hidden foreign object thing. I like it as schtick, actually. I just don't like it when he's world champion. Doing that stuff feels very midcardish. The world champion should wrestle like he's a step above everyone else on the card, and when you have a roster full of heels taking similar shortcuts like that, even if Lawler does a similar routine much better than they do, it's just too much comedy at the main event level. So while Lawler is outstanding at carrying himself like a top guy, I wish he was a little more aggressive and less stooge-like bell-to-bell when working heel. I love Lawler equally as a talker when he's a heel and a babyface, but I prefer his in-ring by and large when he's a babyface.
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Because it's a big deal that it's not a big deal. It's a sign of wrestling's maturity that they can just have someone on their roster that happens to be gay where they don't go to it for cheap heat. Similar to using a black wrestler and not race baiting.
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What If Vince Ran With Slaughter Instead Of Hogan
Loss replied to KrisZ's topic in Megathread archive
If you notice, guys like Flair, Arn, Luger and the Steiners who made their name in WCW and jumped to the WWF all went back on their own to WCW. If you were a top guy, WCW paid you well (and you had a guaranteed salary), the schedule was lighter and you weren't micromanaged. For all the revisionist talk now about how everyone hated working there, history doesn't exactly back that up. -
Also, I've seen various examples mentioned here. Even Lazz. To me, those aren't gay gimmicks. Those are flamboyant gimmicks. The announcers never said "Adrian Street is gay". Even in WWE, they would never say Billy and Chuck were gay. TNA two years ago wouldn't use the word with Orlando Jordan when he was doing whatever he was doing. So until someone actually says the words "I'm gay" as part of their gimmick, I consider it uncharted territory.
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Yeah, and I'm not even sure the time is right to try. Wrestling is behind the rest of society, and there aren't exactly a huge number of openly gay pro athletes. When football players can be out of the closet and it's just mentioned matter-of-factly in video packages, wrestling will follow suit ... about 15 years later.
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They were typically football players who made the transition. Wrestling appealed to guys who played football for a variety of reasons which there are probably other people more qualified to talk about. But one of the things often brought up by old timers is that there are less "real" athletes getting into wrestling now than ever before.
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The Bodydonnas sort of did that, but I see what you're saying. I think so much of any gimmick idea is also dependent upon the general tone and setting of the promotion. That gimmick would be very different in a PG promotion than a more risque one.
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Paul Roma was fired because he sandbagged Alex Wright when he had to put him over at Superbrawl '95, and that led to his firing IIRC.
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I see what you're saying. Someone who basically just coasts along and is somehow successful without doing anything, and that's central to their presentation. The Kardashians are the biggest heels in pop culture, so that's not a bad idea.
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What If Vince Ran With Slaughter Instead Of Hogan
Loss replied to KrisZ's topic in Megathread archive
Bonnie Tyler rocks. Consider yourself warned, Dooley. -
I don't know if MNM counts or not.
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My reasons for thinking this would be cool, by the way, is that positive role models for gay teens are rare. So it was entirely based on that, and not anything business related or even that I think would work, although it would be interesting to see how the audience would respond.
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Adrian Street is the exact opposite of what I'm thinking. I'm thinking a Steve Austin or Rock type who gets the exact same push, but just happens to be gay and it gets mentioned once in a blue moon.
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I don't think I would, no.
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Insincerity is a time-honored staple in wrestling, and one that almost always works well. When fans pick up on it, they don't tend to like it, and those wrestlers tend to get booed. One question: Even if the wrestler was intending on using the hold as a finisher, would you want it presented credibly in the company? Should he gets wins off of it? Should his opponents sell it? Should the announcers make light of it, or should they say something more like, "Well it looks like has a pretty devastating hold locked in, even if it does seem to be a relic from another era" ... that part I'm curious about, but I think it's important.
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That is absolutely part of the charm, and I wouldn't have it any other way. And I don't think wrestling does currently have an affluent audience. But I would be interested in seeing just what would happen if a wrestling promotion made an earnest attempt to appeal to urban, college-educated liberals between 25 and 49 years old. It may have disastrous results. My thought was more that I don't really care to see new ground broken in wrestling. I think everything that can be done well has been done. BUT ... if something is going to be tried that is different, why not something like that? Comic books and pro wrestling tell very similar stories. One attracts that crowd and one doesn't. There are a variety of reasons for that, but for fun, I was imagining myself Vince McMahon incarnate, only instead of slow bodybuilders headlining my shows being my moral vision, getting wrestling popular enough with hipsters that they open independent wrestling shops in urban neighborhoods would be my moral vision. In other words, I was just having fun with the idea.
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It's part of a bigger point that if wrestling seems intent on always doing something "new" and "innovative" (which it is, despite it almost never working and the old style, basic stuff having better results historically), then give me wrestling that makes me think -- that's intelligent and is aimed toward a more affluent fanbase.
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If anything, I think it makes more of a political statement by not being an issue than by feuding him with some evil right-winger. I don't see the need to emphasize it. It just happens to be something announcers would drop occasionally, like "I'm sure Wrestler X's partner Tim is at home right now cheering him on" or whatever. It would come up in video packages or DVD features when they would do more background stuff on the wrestler, but otherwise, no reason to bring it up. Also, notice I didn't say WWE. I'd just like to see a wrestling promotion try it.