Loss

I don't know that this "deserves" its own thread, but I split it off because it was starting to go a little long.

Hey Tim, thoughts on Chris Champion's hair?

It seems like Sabu and RVD matches never wanted to end.

Nash's dated references were great. When seeing all the NWO t-shirts in the crowd once, he commented that he hadn't seen that many black t-shirts since Foghat.

From the bits and pieces I watched of WWECW's first couple years, you would probably be best advised to skip ahead to 08. Unless of course you have a burning desire to see week after week of Big Daddy V vs Kane matches. Yes. Do not create a self-fulfilling prophecy and watch the early stuff.

If it does, I DEMAND a montage to this song. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBJ0lxBhGDs

A "WRESTLE-RAIN-IA?" headline would be funny.

I think my main problems are: * Joey Styles' announcing is too witty and heavy-handed * Most promos go too long * Most matches go too long, considering the limitations of the wrestlers * The crowds are annoying I'm expecting to like 1999+ stuff when it becomes more of a workhorse promotion with guys like Crazy, Taijiri, Kash, etc., but it's really hard to get through the other stuff. There are things I like, like the concept of the Pulp Fiction segments and the Sandman/Mikey feud, but a lot of ECW feels like high school stoners goofing off in front of a camcorder.

"ECW doesn't age well" is an argument that doesn't age well 1993, 1995 and 1996 yearbooks have seen me enjoy almost nothing.

That complicates his narrative.

He was also a utility guy that served no real purpose. Not something I'd really model anyone after in a fantasy thread.

He was called The Man?

What she never understood was that regardless of who wrote it, it was crap. Talk about not being able to see the forest for the trees.

Not many people are capable to work an exciting 30 minute main event period. And I don't think he ever claimed he could (nor anyone else for that matter). I found Raven matches more enjoyable than most stuff on ECW, certainly more enjoyable 15 years later than overrated "technical" demonstrations of Eddie vs Dean, or nonsensical wankery a la RVD, or horrible boring brawls a la Duds. Way more fresh and more fun to watch. Yes there was ton of bullshit, but it was fun bullshit that worked. Just me (litteraly, since I'm probably alone to still enjoy Raven as much as I do). Whether he claims he can or not, the question was if he was held back. I don't think he was. Not claming that he's not good at his job doesn't absolve him from responsibility over being good at his job. My problem with him wasn't that bullshit was part of his act. My problem was that if you stripped away the bullshit, he had absolutely nothing left. Most of ECW is horrible beyond belief (at least from 1993-1997), so I'm not disagreeing with you there. What Vince Russo is to booking (a bunch of stuff to distract you from the fact that it's all crap) is what Raven is to wrestling.

I'm not sure Raven is capable of producing anything good without being surrounded by numerous underlings and having his matches filled with weapons and run-ins. I don't think he's capable of working an exciting, 30-minute main event without any extracurricular stuff. Just me.

PWI referred to him as the owner in the 80s even, which I'm sure the WWF hated. But yeah, the Jim Ross angle had him talking about Vince firing him, and had Vince on Livewire for an hour defending himself. It was mentioned multiple times on Livewire that he was the guy pulling the strings.

Heyman booking would be better than now, but I'm still not confident it would be good. I think it's time to give someone a shot that has never been in the driver's seat before. And while I'm sure there are exceptions, the typical problem with people who haven't had an on-camera role in booking is that they underestimate the value of the in-ring action in selling their vision, and they aren't particularly good at crafting finishes. Also, Lagana is just a continued product of the Russo mindset that places a lot of self-importance on "writing" and being "creative", giving everyone a gimmick, good lines and "something to do". I'd rather TNA just go the old school route and find two ex-wrestlers they can rotate in and out of a top booker spot every six months.

Would someone have reason to pay someone else to be an underdog babyface? And if they're just willing to be a babyface on command for money, wouldn't that make them a heel?

Bischoff is no better than Russo. He had two good years and about quadruple that many bad ones. And the bad ones weren't just disappointing, they were worst-of-all-time level bad. This is a guy who still thinks the Disney tapings played a role in turning WCW around.

Would 1988 Rougeaus already be "bad patriotism", or is that something different?

This thread is the first time I have ever heard of Ring Ka King and I have no idea what it is.

Kevin Sullivan had an idea at point that he presented to TNA of making the company more political. His thought was that since politics gets such strong emotions out of people to somehow work that into the feuds and promos in TNA. I'm not sure specifically what he had in mind. Anyway, Sullivan has had some terrifyingly awful runs as booker just as he has had some good ones, but I wonder how much of his influence over post-1997 WCW can be attributed to burnout.