Loss

Are you aware that alcohol is legal?

The other may have been more HHH influence, but the use of the word "authorities" suggests Vince is talking through Cena on this point. It's just missing the phrases "In any event" and "Notwithstanding" ... I wonder if Cena also believes that people from suburban Massachusetts should be quarantined and that steak should be taken off the market because of its tendency to cause high cholesterol.

That Cena quote about testosterone replacement therapy could prove to be very interesting in about 10 years.

An angle? No. An attempt for Cena to get some publicity by being discussed alongside The Rock? Possibly. That said, I'm sure people like HHH and Michaels have this conversation amongst themselves all the time, and Cena has probably heard it so many times among key people in WWE that he believes it. Kinda like Ric Flair and his views on Montreal.

From Dave:

The ALL PURPOSE Akitoshi Saito Thread

The ALL PURPOSE Dan Spivey Thread

The ALL PURPOSE Gama Singh Thread

The ALL PURPOSE Necro Butcher Thread

Maybe I'm alone, but I really don't give a shit whether they include him or don't include him, and see it as a non-issue that gets talked about way too much.

WWF -- "As most of you already know, the biggest story of the week concerns the WWF holding a tournament for the vacated WWF title as the headline attraction at Wrestlemania IV on 3/27 eminating (sic) from Atlantic City. The announcement was made on the syndicated package over this past weekend, and from what I'm told, the entire card will be released publicly by next week. Besides the 14-man tournament, the early scuttlebutt I hear is that there will be four other matches. One will be a Bunkhouse Battle Royal, which will allow another two dozen or so wrestlers to share in the big payday, while I expect two tag team matches (British Bulldogs vs. Islanders and Strike Force vs. Demolition) and an Intercontinental title defense by Honkeytonk Man (with Brutus Beefcake seeming to be the leading contender--they'll need to shoot an angle this week to get that one 'over'.)" -- The first round has been announced as Roberts vs Rude, Muraco vs Bravo, Steamboat vs Valentine, Reed vs Savage, Bigelow vs Gang and DiBiase vs Duggan, with Hogan vs Andre getting an automatic bye to the second round. "The brackets pretty well should tell the obvious story. There are only two possible winners, Hulk Hogan or Ted DiBiase. The bottom line is that down the road, Hulk Hogan is going to be champion once again." Dave says if Hogan's upcoming movie filming, which begins in April, won't allow him time to wrestle over summer, or if he wants to take off since his first child is due in April, then it makes no sense if he's not going to be around to defend the belt. Also, if Hogan isn't going to win the tournament, the winner has to be a heel so that person can drop the belt back to Hogan. Dave says it's obvious based on bracketing that DiBiase will make it to the finals, either to lose to Hogan or beat Muraco. Dave then goes into really, really detailed predictions on the show. The most interesting prediction is that he thinks Savage and Steamboat will be rematched and go to a draw to create a bye for DiBiase into the finals. -- The NBC special earned a 15.1 rating and a 25 share, and was the 31st highest rated show of the week, which is an average number, but is probably a disappointment to both the WWF and NBC, because they thought it would crack the top 10. It did still win its time slot and the rating was better than the 11.6 average they have been getting from Rags To Riches. -- Dick Ebersol was quoted in the LA Times and USA Today, saying that they weren't interested in doing weekly shows because it would hurt live gates. The truth is, however, that they won't get the chance to turn down a slot, because the feeling now is that the WWF couldn't post competitive numbers in prime time. Dave says he was surprised at the rating. He was interested in it because it would show how "over" (My note: Why does he always put "over" in quotes?) wrestling is to the general public. He says this proved that the match with the most hype and mainstream appeal can only get mediocre mainstream attention. It also showed that wrestling fans are extremely loyal and will watch no matter how inconvenient. This match on SNME Dave thinks would have gotten a 12 rating, so they picked up very few extra viewers. Dave says the WWF can still make money off of their core audience, but it does put the value of Hulk Hogan in perspective. "To a cult audience, which numbers in the millions, he is over bigger than any wrestling star has ever been in the country. But he is not a 'mainstream' star capable of making it in prime time on the networks on anything more than a one or two shot a year basis. He's not nearly as over as Antonio Inoki was in his heyday, let alone a Larry Holmes (whose title defenses always cracked the top 10 against bums like Tex Cobb when put on free TV). "Time Magazine isn't going to be banging on Titan's door this month proclaiming another wrestling resurgence. The networks aren't going to stumble onto Jim Crockett's group because nobody is looking at wrestling as a hot item, both of which could have happened had the show cracked the top five." Dave also says that even though Vince McMahon is the most successful money-making wrestling promoter in history, there isn't as much mainstream interest as there was in New Japan's 1982-1985 heyday. (My note: We get it already.) "And Hogan's TV ratings power, while again more than any wrestler of the modern era, probably isn't as strong as Chigusa Nagayo's right now. One may view the comparisons with Japan as ridiculous because of the differences in culture, but the truth is, if anything, the U.S. is the country more TV oriented. My main point out of all this is a conversation I had with a Titan employee a few months back when we got to the subject of the style of wrestling (fast food vs. hardcore) and if it was the style of wrestling which made Titan No. 1, if it was the fact it was the best run promotion that made it No. 1, or if it was the fact that they spent the most money that made them No. 1. The conclusion we came to is that it was something we couldn't answer. No promotion offering traditional wrestling has ever had the front office professionals in the hundreds behind the company, a $250,000 budget for TV taping to make them look so major league in comparison with opposition, etc. Unless opposition was equal to Titan in every way except that they had a different wrestling product (more action-oriented) and Titan was still No. 1, then we'd really know the answer." -- The WWF is running a TV taping in Winston-Salem, NC on 3/9, which Dave thinks is peculiar since it's about 20 miles outside of Greensboro. "As you can see, Titan smells blood and is going right for the jugular." -- The next SNME is scheduled for 3/12, and will be taped on 3/7 from Nashville. -- "Probably the most bizarre story revolves around last Friday's NBC special. Apparently an Intercontinental title change was in the script and the match was supposed to be shorter as well, however Honkeytonk Man vetoed the script and there was lots of backstage commotion about it, but the bottom line was, he held out and refused to do the job and he's still champion today. If you wonder why they just didn't have Randy beat him anyway which is something that gets threatened from time-to-time especially in the old days of wrestling, is simply because Honkey must have realized that there was no chance whatsoever McMahon would take any chances on a bad situation occurring on live television and the last thing he ever wants is real violence. That probably explains why Honkeytonk Man, as IC champ, isn't in the tournament." -- Billy Jack Haynes asked Vince McMahon for help to start a new promotion in Oregon and run opposition to Don Owen, but Vince turned him down. The public story is that Haynes quit because of health reasons, but it appears the real story is that he wanted a bigger push and thought Brady Boone should also get a bigger push. -- Jesse Ventura will be doing heel commentary for some New York Yankees games for local pay-TV consumption. -- Bam Bam Bigelow didn't have arthroscopic surgery. He's postponing until after Wrestlemania, when the WWF will take a one-month break. Speaking of Bigelow, a drug possession charge in Freehold, NJ, was dismissed when the evidence was ruled inadmissible because it was illegally obtained. The officers found a small bag of marijuana under the seat of his car and he was charged with a misdemeanor, but it was ruled the officers did not have probable cause to conduct the search. Bigelow waved to the officer, and the overzealous officer responded by pulling him over for no reason. Even though a misdemeanor, if convicted, this would have been bad for him, because he is on three years probation from a 1986 conviction after pleading guilty to threatening to kill a prostitute. Had he been convicted, he would have served a five-year prison sentence. -- 02/04 in Muskegon, WI, drew 2,500 headlined by Islanders vs British Bulldogs. 02/07 in Toronto in front of a "small crowd" was headlined by Ricky Steamboat, Hacksaw Duggan & Randy Savage vs Hart Foundation & Honky Tonk Man. 02/08 in Los Angeles drew 3,000 headlined by Ted DiBiase vs Bam Bam Bigelow in a match reported as **** by reader Pat Hoed. 02/13 in Bloomington, MN, drew 7,000 headlined by Hogan & Bigelow vs DiBiase & Andre with Mad Dog Vachon in the babyface corner. 02/14 at the Silverdome drew 12,000 headlined by Hogan & Bigelow vs DiBiase & Andre. -- Someone in the WWF told Dave the JYD/Reed match taped for Wrestling Challenge was a worst match of the year candidate. -- Gene Okerlund's son Todd is on the U.S. Ice Hockey Team in the Olympics. -- Ted DiBiase interview printed in the Chicago Sun Times on 1/15: "Because I am so versatile, the UWF used me as a utility man. I didn't get the push I deserved or the respect I deserved. I had to show a big Oklahoma football player like Steve Williams the ropes as his tag team partner, show him how to work in the ring and how to do an interview, and then the UWF tried to promote Williams over me." He also said Giant Baba's handshake is better than a signed contract from any other promoter in the wrestling business. He also said, "After the NWA bought out the UWF, I didn't want to work for Jim Crockett. He has his favorites and they get paid well and they get taken care of. But if you're not in the clique, you starve." He was very complimentary of Vince McMahon, saying "he has taken wrestling out of the closet and put it right into the entertainment mainstream." -- On the live satellite feed of the Royal Rumble, you could hear Vince McMahon yelling "Stop looking like a fucking stone and show some interest in the matches" at Howard Finkel. Vince also didn't know the names of the Jumping Bomb Angels. He asked for someone to tell him the names, and then said, "Wow, I butchered the shit out of those names." NWA -- Paul Boesch is on the NWA Board of Directors. He is the only non-promoter ever on the board. It's more of a figurehead position, and they will use him for his name value in Houston. Boesch has no financial interest in the Houston shows, although he will be helping out. -- The original plan for the Crockett Cup was to use two sites -- Greenville, SC on 4/9 and finals on 4/10 in Greensboro -- but TV ads seem to contradict this. Dave says they really need to work with New Japan, Stampede and World Class, but there are too many egos stopping that from happening. -- Dennis Condrey wants to come in as a babyface and feud with Bobby Eaton and Stan Lane. -- "Did you catch the balding blonde haired jobber named Randy Hogan who got destroyed on TBS this weekend? Kind of childish." -- Shane Douglas has returned. He is using the sleeperhold as a finisher and getting a mild push. Tony Schiavone calls him the 1986 Rookie of the Year, while Jim Ross calls him the 1987 Rookie of the Year. -- Road Warrior Animal's eye injury is legit and he'll be out for a few weeks. He broke his orbital bone and was nearly blinded in one eye. He was being billed as returning, which is why Dave thought it was a work, but it appears to be legit. Dave says the crowds haven't really been that much different, so the angle doesn't appear to have been effective. The injury actually happened on 1/29, the day before the angle, -- "I can't emphasize enough just how quickly Lex Luger fizzled out as a babyface. Sometimes you look at something and make a snap judgment just by the looks of things without examining in detail. Luger is that way. You look at him and everyone tells everyone else just how over he is and how he's the future of wrestling and all that. The bottom line is, as good as his physique is, good physiques are a dime a dozen these days as is blond hair. His looks are nothing special. Still, he could be a big star and will be a star of some magnitude however his rapport with the audience just isn't there. It wasn't there in Florida (remember, Florida literally died with Luger as top babyface in 1986) and it still isn't there. Even though Sting needs lots of work on interviews and he may not be as muscularly defined as Luger, Sting has the rapport and has totally passed Luger by. It becomes more obvious each show as the audience reacts to everything Sting does, while seemingly acts ho-hummy when Luger and Windham talk. Sting has more of the cool GQ look of today but I've got the feeling in their infinite wisdom, the NWA will keep all three at the same level (thus inevitably ensuring none get over to the point they'll make a difference). I don't totally blame Luger for the crowd reaction because they wasted no time making him one of the boys when they should have at least given him a few months as king of all the babyfaces before ruining the impact of his turn by making him a tag team wrestler." -- 2/2 in Miami only drew 1,900 fans headlined by Luger & Dusty vs Flair & Tully. 2/9 in Albany, GA drew 400 fans headlined by Sting & Barry Windham vs Midnight Express. "TV, newspaper and radio ads up until the day of the show continued to bill Rock & Roll and Michael Hayes for this card, but what the heck, Titan is still billing Billy Jack Haynes for future dates as well as he's been gone for basically just as long." 2/11 in Baltimore drew a $103,000 gate headlined by Flair & Tully vs Luger & Ron Garvin. 2/13 in Philadelphia drew 6,000 for a TV taping. 2/14 in Chicago drew 5,000 fans headlined by Flair vs Sting. Dave says they really killed Chicago with that Starrcade finish with the Road Warriors and have not been able to rebound. 2/11 in Raleigh, NC, drew 1,200 fans headlined by Flair & Tully vs Luger & Windham. 2/14 evening in Atlanta drew 13,000 fans headlined by Ric Flair vs Sting, and Luger & Ole vs Arn & Tully in a cage. AWA -- ESPN signed a new two-year contract with the AWA and the contract calls for exclusivity, so World Class will no longer be on ESPN. -- "The big news as far as the AWA goes is that they are 'restructing the company.' I'm not sure what that exactly means, other than after the card this coming Sunday in Las Vegas, the AWA will be closing down for about a month and will re-open in late March with a new outlook on life. I believe Verne Gagne will be doing the booking once again as it seems he's tired of people making decisions that are costing him money and he'd instead like to make those same decisions." Only Curt Hennig will be paid during this time off, so he's expected to be sent to other territories and the Midnight Rockers will probably work full time in Memphis. As for the rest of the crew, Dave suspects they will either have to go elsewhere where they can make money, or take day jobs to make ends meet. -- Stanley Blackburn is getting all the heat for the 2/4 cage match with Curt Hennig vs Greg Gagne. Greg won the match and was presented with the title, but Blackburn wouldn't allow it because the match was in a cage, and the title can't be defended in a cage. -- They will be using Williams Arena at the University of Minnesota as the new home base. Dave worries that their alcohol ban will hurt attendance. -- Paul E. Dangerously is set to return on 2/22 in Las Vegas to manage Pat Tanaka and Paul Diamond, who will feud with Michaels and Jannetty. WCCW -- 2/12 in Dallas drew 3,800 fans headlined by Al Perez vs Terry Taylor. On the show, there was also a Terry Gordy & Buddy Roberts vs Kevin & Kerry Von Erich match. There was a lot of interference. Chris Adams and Terry Taylor ended up brawling at ringside, and Taylor was doing lots of floor piledrivers to do a major injury angle, and Adams ended up getting his hand broken and may have to have a pin inserted. -- Michael Hayes is back as a babyface. They're building up a 3/5 concert at the Sportatorium which will probably lead to a big angle. -- Ken Mantell wants to re-open Wild West. He wants to feud two promotions but Dave doesn't see the logic in it, because there are already too many wrestling promotions. -- The last Houston show only drew 42 fans, not 80 fans as previously reported. -- Steve Williams told the Japanese press he's coming in. MEMPHIS -- FNN announced on Tuesday that they will be airing CWA wrestling on a weekly basis starting in April. Dave thinks the time slot is 9PM Eastern and 6PM Pacific, but isn't completely sure. -- Bill Dundee is leaving for the new Knoxville promotion, "... and Manny Fernandez has disappeared into the same thin air which engulfed Scott Hall, Tijo Khan and several others." -- Maxx Payne won the CWA title from Jerry Lawler in Memphis on 2/8 before less than 1,500 fans. That was also Dundee's first match as a heel, against Jeff Jarrett, which shows how little impact the heel turn had. 2/15 is expected to draw better with Dundee vs Jarrett once again, Midnight Rockers vs Rock & Roll Express and Lawler vs Tommy Rich in a grudge match. -- Tommy Rich did a total babyface interview on TV to build to his match with Lawler, saying he was wrong for teaming with Austin Idol and Paul E. Dangerously, but that he still hated Lawler. The two have major heat which is what caused Rich to leave when he was red hot the previous year. They expect half the crowd to support Rich, based on Rich trying to appeal to fans who hate Jerry Lawler to come out and support him in his promo. "I'm told that even though Memphis simply can't draw a lick without Lawler, that there are a large group of fans who don't like Lawler since he's always on top week after week and familiarity at that level often breeds contempt." -- Brother Earnest Angel has completely changed his gimmick because of the bad feedback and phone calls to the studio. He now manages Gary Young and Maxx Payne. He had toned his act completely down and sort of apologized for his previous behavior on TV. -- Coming in are the Rock & Roll Express, Tommy Rich, Samoans Samu & Kokina (Yokozuna) CONTINENTAL -- This was the last week of the territory as one circuit. The 2/12 show in Knoxville drew 7,000 headlined by Doug Furnas vs Lord Humongous in a stretcher match. -- Knoxville is expected to get Johnny Rich, Davey Rich, Bill Dundee, Hector Guerrero, Ron Fuller, Austin Idol, Doug Furnas, the Rock & Roll RPMs, Lord Humongous, Buddy Landell, the Stomper, the Armstrongs and Tracy Smothers. Robert Fuller, Jimmy Golden, Dutch Mantell, Tom Pritchard, Jonathan Boyd, Wendell Cooley, Tony Anthony, Frankie Lancaster and Danny Davis will stay with Continental. OREGON -- A Frank Bonema Memorial Show is planned for 2/16 in Portland, to be headlined by babyface Curt Hennig defending the AWA title against The Grappler. -- The Moondogs never showed up. It was announced on TV that they had been suspended by the NWA. -- Chris Colt was fired and is headed to England. -- 01/31 in Tumwater, MA only drew 40 fans. CENTRAL STATES -- The title was held up after a match between DJ Peterson (being billed as Dave Peterson) and the Cuban Assassin. Dave is unsure when the rematch will take place. The tag titles are also held up for a tournament on 2/26 in St. Joseph. -- Kansas City will begin running weekly cards again starting on 3/31. -- 02/05 in St. Joseph drew 442 fans. 02/14 in Kansas City drew less than 150 fans. -- Local wrestler Steve Estes, 37, pleaded guilty to holding up a Mexican restaurant in October. He was charged with a Class A felony, but it was reduced in exchange for his plea. He could be in prison for between 5-15 years. STAMPEDE -- The 2/5 card in Calgary features what Dave was told was the best Stampede match in ages, as Bruce Hart & Brian Pillman defended the International tag titles against Great Gama & Jerry Morrow. -- Les Thornton will be running opposition in Calgary starting in Spring. ALL JAPAN -- Takashi Ishikawa & Mighty Inoue regained the Asian tag belts from Kawada & Fuyuki on 1/29 in Tokyo before 1,860 fans at Korauken Hall. NEW JAPAN -- 1/30 in Ishinomaki drew 1,890 fans. 2/1 in Soka drew 3,150 fans headlined by Inoki & Sakaguchi vs Saito & Vader. 2/4 in Osaka drew a sellout 6,820 fans headlined by Riki Choshu vs Antonio Inoki. Inoki won clean, and Dave thinks Choshu is going to be hurt by that one. 2/5 in Tokyo drew a sellout 2,000 fans. 2/7 in Sapporo drew a sellout 6,120 fans headlined by Vader vs Inoki. On this show, Shiro Koshinaka also won the juniors tournament. -- "Choshu has been wrestling pretty bad of late, like he just doesn't want to be in the ring anymore." -- "[buzz] Sawyer stole the spotlight from [Owen] Hart in some tag matches. He would start barking and howling and playing to the crowd while Hart was doing his fancy moves, which detracted from Hart's moves and took the crowd's attention away from Hart." -- They will be touring Brazil in late March and are also sending wrestlers to help fill out Crockett's March show in Honolulu. -- Most of the shows when Inoki was gone sold out, which means Vader's huge push is catching on. -- Steve Williams did an interview that he was tired of touring all over the U.S. and wants to spend more time at home with his wife. He also said the NWA broke promises they made to him when they did the takeover. He says he was promised a big unification match with Ric Flair that never happened, and they also stopped billing him as the UWF champion. "I don't go back to NWA Crockett promotions anymore. I'd like to wrestle for promotions which set a high value on ability. New Japan is good because they use Vader, Buzz Sawyer, Bob Orton and Owen Hart who can do hard wrestling." JOSHI -- There is a Japanese movie coming out called "The Crazy Family" where the daughter is 13 years old and spends all of her time singing and lifting weights because she wants to be like Chigusa Nagayo. -- Crowds have been good lately. Because of high ticket prices, they're doing gates of over $100,000 on a regular basis. PUERTO RICO -- The 01/30 show at the Roberto Clemente Coliseum in San Juan drew a 32,000-fan sellout, headlined by Carlos Colon vs Iron Sheik with heel manager Chicky Starr suspended in a cage above the ring. It was Sheik's last match before going back to the WWF. The buildup had Sheik burying Colon with the Iranian flag to set up the card. -- Dan Kroffat is in and Dave says he looks ridiculous with dyed blond hair. OTHER -- Tempo Cable Network made a tentative deal with Angelo Savoldi's ICW. -- Mad Dog Vachon is suing the Iowa City Hospital for several million dollars. They cared for him after a hit and run accident, but Vachon is claiming his leg would not need to be amputated had they properly treated him. -- Florida has dropped legislation to introduce an athletic commission after pleading from Duke Keomuka and Jerry Brisco. -- Mando Guerrero is training women in Southern California for a new startup group called the American Women's Wrestling Federation (AWWF). -- Bruiser Brody is promoting his own show on 3/4 in St. Louis. Sam Muchnick is lending his name to it because he felt "used" by Crockett when they showed him on WTBS recently, and implied a connection that doesn't exist at all. -- Tony Atlas placed third in the American Powerlifting Federation's World Bench Press championships with a 550 lb lift at 275 lbs. -- Wrestlers who have done the most foreign tours: Abdullah the Butcher 43 Stan Hansen 43 Tiger Jeet Singh 43 Dick Murdoch 40 Dory Funk Jr. 34 Terry Funk 33 Harley Race 31 Bad News Allen 28 Bruiser Brody 27 Andre the Giant 27 Billy Robinson 25 The Destroyer 22 Mil Mascaras 20 Hulk Hogan 20 Masked Superstar 20 Bobo Brazil 15 Lou Thesz 15 Ted DiBiase 14 Nick Bockwinkel 14 King Curtis Iaukea 14 Jimmy Snuka 13 Terry Gordy 12 Dynamite Kid 12 Ric Flair 12 Dusty Rhodes 12 The Sheik 12 Pete Roberts 11 Dick Slater 11 Marc Rocco 11 Killer Karl Kox 11 Killer Tim Brooks 10 Adrian Adonis 10 Dos Caras 10 El Canek 10 Tony St. Clair 10

How do you count Royal Rumbles? I tried doing something similar, but was unsure how to count. Specifically the '89 and '90 shows without a title match. Also, for a show like Wrestlemania XIX or Wrestlemania XX, with so many big matches and no clear main event, who gets credit?

I may try to verify this some time, but I'm pretty sure by this point, HHH has probably been in more pay-per-view main events than anyone in the history of pro wrestling. Below him I'm not sure, maybe Michaels. Either Flair or Michaels have probably had more pay-per-view matches (main event or otherwise) than anyone.

As the Hulkster himself once said, "Thank God Donald Trump is a Hulkamaniac."

Whether you agree with what he said completely or not, Lance Storm did a commentary about the Undertaker's new finisher and there are some interesting points made. http://www.stormwrestling.com/021908.html I don't know that I'd have even really paid attention to this all that much if I hadn't been watching all the Mid South lately, simply because Bill Watts was the type of booker who put a lot of thought into things like this. Doing a wrestling submission where you can't see either guy's face is not something that would have been encouraged in wrestling in the past. But I thought we could use this thread to talk about what have been good things wrestling has incorporated from MMA, what have not really worked, and things that you'd like to see wrestling try to emulate from MMA that haven't been done.

Just wanted to bump this to point out how it's taken almost no time for Jericho to become irrelevant. With the Finlay/JBL segment on RAW, I think it became obvious that they're not going to carry Jericho/JBL to Mania. Now, he's a guy in multi-person big matches who stands no chance of winning, which is exactly how he was being booked in 2005. Any chance at doing something different is pretty much gone. The only real hope is a super heel turn and program with Cena, but I'm not really sure he could get over in that role anymore, and again, that's more 2005 re-tread. I'm not saying all of this to attack him, as much as I am pointing out how unbelievable it is that someone who was among the most over guys they had during the boom and immediate post-boom doesn't really have a role anymore.

I know stuff like this gets said by WWE apologists all the time, but I really do think that they're going to go with Hardy at some point this year, but because plans were already set for Wrestlemania, they were afraid to change them, and decided to stay the course. Up until the last minute, they were talking about him possibly beating Orton at the Rumble or being an upset winner of the Elimination Chamber. I do think he'll win MITB and get the belt before the year is over.

I think it would be fun to do some type of Steve Austin career thing here at PWO, especially because he reinvented himself so many times. I was just watching the Austin/Helmsley match from Buried Alive back in '96 last night, for example, and thought it was a really fun match. Nearly destroyed by Jim Ross doing his obnoxious heel gimmick and them running the gag of his mic not working properly way too long, but still a fun match.

Does ROH have their own security or do they use building security?

Dave Meltzer's thoughts on eating habits I recall being something like that he eats chicken breasts and pineapples, and never gets in bad moods.

The tournament was always the plan. It's just that DiBiase was going to win originally. Savage had to be promised the title at Wrestlemania to convince him not to go into business for himself on the Honky Tonk Man on NBC.

I'm curious, because I've never really heard it discussed either way. I know Gabe obviously books finishes, but does he given any guidance to the wrestlers on what type of match he wants them to have? I know he's against road agents, but when he books, does he do anything to help with laying out the matches? I do think part of being a good booker is just letting talent do things they're good at doing, and you don't necessarily have to be overly creative or have tons of ideas to be successful in the position. But I'm curious how much of ROH is Gabe's vision, and how much of it is wrestlers doing their own thing.

DiBiase was the original plan. Blame the Honky Tonk Man for all the changes. Details are probably in the next WON, or maybe the one after that.

WWF -- Dave just raves and raves about the finish to the Hogan/Andre match on NBC, saying that he hopes whoever came up with that finish got a nice bonus in their paycheck. He's so impressed because he says it's like they thought of everything -- they found a way to get the belt off of Hogan to do a job, Andre wasn't hurt, Wrestlemania was set up, and the nature of the angle was so shocking that it didn't set off a fan riot, which was at one point a concern about taking the belt off of Hogan. -- In the Bay area, radio stations were reporting the title change up to a week before it even happened. The San Jose Mercury ran a story about it the day before. This was out because the WWF had already sent advertising agencies information on Wrestlemania IV, with the slogan "Hogan tries to regain his title." Dave is shocked, but no one in the WWF was even concerned about it, because all the publicity in giving away the finish, and people anticipating a title change, only helped the ratings and buzz for the show. He says that's a clear difference between the WWF and NWA, as Dusty would have gone crazy about a finish leaking like that. -- Trivia: Jerry Monti, the most famous jobber in the San Francisco territory, made the opening credits as the victim of the Honky Tonk Man's Shake Rattle & Roll neckbreaker. -- Dave says production wise, the show wasn't as good as most WWF shows just because they were doing it live. Randy Savage's pre-match interview was a mess, because the mic wasn't on, and HTM's music was being played too loud. -- The show started with Randy Savage vs Honky Tonk Man, and Dave says HTM and Peggy Sue (Sherri Martel) deserve credit for always putting on such a huge show in the pre-match, but that HTM turns it off when the bell rings. He says Savage carried him and it was bad, but watchable. He says Savage was limited by the framework of the match because there were several spots where he had to be laid out selling for long periods of time so HTM could attempt to serenade Elizabeth. The cameras missed a key interference spot from Jimmy Hart. The finish was Savage running HTM's shoulder into the ringpost before winning by countout. Post-match, Savage was hit with the megaphone. Honky was about to hit Savage with the guitar and Liz jumped in the way to save the day. He was about to hit her, but Savage saved the day and the post-match saw him open the ropes for Liz and carry her on his shoulder. Dave says ** for the whole thing. He thinks it was only a *1/4 match, but the post-match boosted it. -- Regarding Hogan/Andre, Dave says Andre looks to have lost a lot of weight since Thanksgiving. He also says he's a great heel with great facial expressions, but has no business wrestling in his current physical condition. He took no bumps, because he would have had to get up again. Hogan did the Ric Flair bump of getting slammed off the top turnbuckle, which shocked Dave, because it's a pretty big bump anyway, but especially for Hogan. At one point, Andre tried to kick Hogan, but his other foot couldn't support him, and he fell. All he could really do from there was choke. Dave says he was admittedly surprised at the crowd doing more mugging than watching the match also. Hogan did his comeback and the legdrop, but Virgil distracted the ref, so there was no count. Andre then got up and did a botched suplex, the ref counted to three even with Hogan kicking out, and at 9:05, Andre was the new champion. Andre was just about to give "The World Tag Team Championship" (he screwed up the name of the belt twice) to DiBiase, but then referee Dave Hebner shows up. Dave had just left the NWA a few days earlier. Vince and Jesse were stunned and wondering how there could be two Dave Hebners, and the crowd was completely shocked. The heel Dave Hebner then beat up the real Dave Hebner and threw him out of the ring. He then turned around and realized Hogan was waiting for him, and Hogan picked up up and threw him outside the ring. DiBiase and Virgil were supposed to catch him, but Hogan was wrapped up in the moment and threw the heel Dave Hebner (Earl) too far, way past DiBiase and Virgil. Hogan did a post-match interview saying that DiBiase paid someone to have plastic surgery to look exactly like Dave Hebner to steal the title. -- The show drew a 16.1 rating and a 26 share, which makes it the most widely watched wrestling match in the history of the United States. Dave says he'll go into more details about the rating next week, but it was an improvement over the bomb "Rags To Riches" that is normally in that time slot. The network was hopeful for top 5 or top 10 for the week, but no such luck. "They aren't going to get a weekly series although I'm sure they'll get another prime time special. I expected much better numbers as well, but I guess there aren't as many potential wrestling fans in the U.S. as I thought there were." -- The syndicated TV aired the next day, and they covered for the taping difference by saying WWF President Jack Tunney had forbidden any discussion from the announcers of what happened the night before, which Dave thought was clever. Jesse Ventura would try to talk about it and they would bleep out everything he said. Jesse then did a spoof on the Dan Rather CBS walkout, started yelling about censorship, and left. -- Dave can't believe how well everything worked, and now thinks calling Wrestlemania IV a $25 million show may be conservative. -- The next day, the WWF ran two house shows -- one in Boston and one in Philadelphia. -- The rumor is that it will be announced in syndication that the title is being held up. Dave goes crazy with speculation about possible scenarios that is too confusing to type. -- Dynamite Kid collapsed in the San Francisco airport last Saturday. At least one radio station reported that he had a heart attack, which is what Dave was told initially as well. In reality, it was a stress-related seizure. He was hospitalized, but as of press time had already returned to the ring. -- Bam Bam Bigelow had also already returned to the ring. -- Trivia: About 14 months prior in Denver, rookie Owen James teamed with SD Jones, but lost to the Hart Foundation. "Owen James is of course Owen Hart, who wrestled against his brother that night. Even then he outshined everyone with Titan, which is probably why he hasn't been back." -- Says the 01/25 MSG main event of Hogan & Bigelow vs DiBiase & Virgil was very good, and that DiBiase is the perfect opponent for Hogan in terms of working, and knows how to get the most out of him. Dave would give it ***1/4. -- Dave was wrong about WM IV tickets in Atlantic City. As of 2/8, there were only 5,000 tickets sold and about 4,000 remaining. They are giving away 8,800 tickets, not 2,000, and the place will seat 17,800 when full. Dave expects a sellout within a week. -- The WWF is now claiming that Wrestlemania III grossed $20.4 million, not $17.1 million as Dave had written in the yearbook. Dave thinks this year, worst case, they'd gross $23.5 million, but most likely $25 million. -- 2/6 in Boston drew 15,534 sellout and $190,000 headlined by Hogan & Bigelow vs Andre & DiBiase. 2/6 in Philadelphia drew 13,112 and $163,608 headlined by Hogan & Bigelow vs Andre & DiBiase. NWA -- Correction to previous Bunkhouse Stampede figures: the show drew an $80,000 gate and 6,200 paid. -- Ted Turner is now trying to help the NWA fix their PPV woes caused by the WWF blocking almost all of their planned shows for the year. "As we've noted, the future of this business on a major league level is definitely not in house shows, but in PPV and outside merchandising and with McMahon blocking Crockett from PPV, then no matter what else may happen or how much Crockett can turn things around, he won't be able to compete on a major league basis." Turner wants to help get the Great American Bash on PPV, but plans for the Crockett Cup and Starrcade have been canned. After the Bash, they don't have another PPV scheduled until January of '89 with the Bunkhouse final. "I guess the big difference between these guys and McMahon is that at least McMahon learns from his mistakes." -- As of the previous week, JCP is averaging a 6.5 national rating in syndication and is the #12 spot, while Titan is at #3 with an average 10.6 national rating in syndication. -- The Sporting News ran a clip a few weeks back about Lyle Alzado's "Learning The Ropes" sitcom where he plays a single dad who supplements his job as a school teacher by being a masked wrestler called The Maniac. Steve Williams doubled for Alzado in the early pilots filmed just before Christmas. When Williams was wrestling Flair, he injured his knee landing wrong on a leap frog from the top rope. He came back obviously injured for a match with Tully Blanchard. Tully was supposed to hit him on the back with a chair, but instead hit him in the head and he started juicing. He then had to patch his head up for a match with Arn Anderson, but his knee blew out. Arn also doubled for Alzado, teaming with Lex Luger against the Road Warriors. Anderson fell from the ring and jammed his shoulder on a TV camera. -- "Am I imagining things or has Sting totally surpassed Lex Luger and Barry Windham as the top young babyface? I was afraid Luger would lose his 'steam' like Nikita Koloff did, but believe me, in my wildest dreams I didn't think he'd lose it by early February. I figured at worse he'd be a hot headliner at least through the early summer before slipping into Nikita-level nothing stratosphere. Luger is already one of the boys and stuck in a tag team feud with Windham against Tully Blanchard & Arn Anderson ... Even though Sting certainly needs work on interviews, he's got an amazing rapport with the audience and can do some amazing things in the ring and I truly believe he's the kind of a guy who in about a year someone could actually build a promotion around. His work is good already and great in spots and his charisma beats both Luger and Barry Windham by a substantial margin." -- Ole Anderson is back on a semi-regular basis to replace the departing Nikita Koloff, who will be gone for 6-8 weeks. -- Buddy Landell tried to get work, but they wouldn't give him the time of day. He didn't even last for his Japanese tour, disappearing after two weeks. He is scheduled to start back with Continental in early march. -- The Rock & Roll Express are telling everyone they're starting with the WWF in June, which Dave is skeptical about and are just working independents until then. JCP is still getting lots of calls about them leaving, with the official line being, "They aren't gone, they're just renegotiating." -- Michael Hayes still really wants to go to the WWF, but is headed to WCCW. -- Steve Williams is just going to work Japan, although Dave recommends he try to get a part-time gig with WCCW just to stay in shape. -- Dave thinks in spite of the cloud of impeding doom surrounding the NWA lately, they seem to be getting on the right track with booking. He loved the Road Warriors angle and thinks it will draw (not sellouts, but good, respectable houses). Dave now thinks the weights were gimmicked, though. The plan is for the Road Warriors to have ladder matches with the Powers of Pain on house shows with $50,000 at the top of the ladder. -- Eddie Gilbert was offered a spot in the Varsity Club and turned it down -- Dave now wants to talk about the Barry Windham/Tully Blanchard match: "Now I liked the match. I can get into the concept of working on a body part with the guy selling the injury, etc. Both guys know how to work that style, the smashing of the chair on Windham's knee looked legit and Windham did his usual great job of selling the wounded limb. Lots of readers enjoyed the match as well. Now I'm not going to comment on the ending because that's not the issue here. The issue is, Tully had Barry in the figure four at the 22:00 mark, after working on the leg for 12 minutes, and the crowd was chanting 'boring' and there was no heat. Technically, from the wrestling I grew up with, it was a good match, but the fans weren't buying it. I hope everyone takes notice of this because if it continues to happen, long matches may become as prevalent as Dusty's muscular definition. I can recall in Houston this past year I saw a Flair vs. Windham match, which wound up going about 30 minutes and was every bit of a four-star match. They did their usual slow start for 7 minutes before turning up the heat, but in those 7 minutes, several hundred fans went home. So what in my eyes (and in the eyes of the ringsiders who were 'into' the match totally) was a great match obviously was not a great match in the eyes of the bleacher folks who were leaving during the main event. The idea that these slow-builders may not appeal to today's fans is a concept I'd rather not address, but I've seen too many examples of fans being unable to retain interest in long matches. The point being, with the idea of slow-building and telling a story with the matches may not be viable concepts to today's fans. I'd like to hear others opinions on this." AWA -- The final card at the Minneapolis Auditorium happened on 02/04 before a low turnout of 1,700 fans. They were hyping it as Nostalgia Night, and the WWF countered by running "Mad Dog Vachon Night" in the same market the following week, and even ended up bringing in old AWA stars for their show like The Crusher, Nick Bockwinkel and Blackjack Lanza. Verne had Red Bastien, Killer Kowalski, Carl Eller (never wrestled, but was a member of the Minnesota Vikings Purple People Eaters front four in the early 70s), Butch Levy, Leo Nomellini, Hard Boiled Haggerty, Dick the Bruiser (who wrestled), Billy Robinson and perennial jobber Kenny "Sodbuster" Jay, who actually got the biggest pop. Verne Gagne and Stanley Blackburn were in attendance as well. Dave says Zenk/Robinson stood out in the wrong way, because Zenk is the only potential contender they have for Hennig, and a 50-year old guy took him to a 20-minute draw. He also controlled the entire match, which was in slow motion and Zenk had no opportunity to do anything to get himself over. The AWA now doesn't have a venue lined out for the Twin Cities. -- Adrian Adonis is out until March at the earliest. The match where he broke his ankle was a match against Ricky Rice that did air on TV. -- Kelly Kiniski quit. He was unhappy with his $170 weekly check and went back to Canada. -- Nord the Barbarian quit. He's hugely over in the AWA because of his car commercials, but Verne never wanted to push him because he didn't think he could last. -- Still no word on the future of Paul E. Dangerously. MEMPHIS -- Scott Hall is gone, and no one knows where he is. (My note: I'm sure something similar has been written at least once every year since in the WON.) -- Pat Tanaka and Paul Diamond are scheduled to come in as a babyface tag team for a few weeks. -- Bill Dundee finally turned heel. There was a battle royal with the winner getting a shot at the CWA title on the 2/6 TV show. It came down to Jeff Jarrett and Bill Dundee. Dundee tossed Jarrett over the top rope, but Jarrett held on and flipped himself back in the ring. Dundee was strutting, and Jarrett hit him from behind with two dropkicks that sent him over the top rope. Later in the show, Lawler defended against Jarrett, and after a ref bump, Dundee came in and hit Jarrett and Lawler very hard with a chair. -- Brother Earnest Angel is in managing a team called the Choir Boys and is doing a televangelist gimmick. They are getting nasty phone calls from religious groups. The angle is intended to spoof Jim & Tammy Faye Baker, which Angel saying he's on a mission to create "Wrestling Village USA". Angel "saved the soul" of Darryl Peterson (Max Payne) on TV. WCCW -- Ken Mantell really wants to put together a Ric Flair vs Kerry Von Erich match for May. CONTINENTAL -- 01/29 in Columbus, MS, drew 1,708. Crowds in Montgomery, AL have been less than 150 per week. SOUTHERN CHAMPIONSHIP WRESTLING -- The promotion is getting hot in Atlanta, drawing a turnaway crowd of 620 fans in Marietta, mainly due to Ricky Morton. -- Abdullah the Butcher, Robert Gibson, Bruiser Brody and Dick Slater are scheduled for the 02/21 taping, with a likely Brody vs Slater main event -- Dave says he saw the January TV and it's a pretty lively and fun to watch indy show, and has better caliber wrestling than most indies -- There is talk of Dennis Condrey coming in -- There's a major war going on with other Georgia independents. On a recent Deep South Wrestling show, they made fun of Joe Pedicino and Bonnie Blackstone. They did a skit with a guy in an easy chair pretending to be Pedicino, but getting stuck in his chair and needing help to get out. Blackstone was parodied as a total bimbo. Southern countered by showing a clip of The Invader vs The Assassin, with Pedicino saying, "This is the Puerto Rican Assassin because there is nobody named The Assassin in the United States that can wrestle," a dig at Jody Hamilton, the group's headliner. -- On a show they did in Atlanta, Michael Hayes said, regarding the NWA, "It may be the major league, but their checks are minor league." STAMPEDE -- Garfield Portz suffered a stroke late last week at the age of 30 years old, collapsing while pumping gas. The original prognosis wasn't good, but he began to take a turn for the better. At first, there was fear that he would be paralyzed for life. It's too early to tell. -- 01/29 in Calgary drew 1,300. The 02/05 show drew a near sellout, but there were lots of fans who arrived late because of the NBC special the WWF was airing. That show was the last for Bad News. He didn't do any jobs on the way out because Vince wouldn't let him. -- Dave thinks Rip Rogers has turned out to be great and has surprised everyone by that because no one expected it. -- Stampede really wants to do a Ric Flair vs Owen Hart NWA World title match in Spring, but JCP doesn't seem into it. NEW JAPAN -- TV tapings on 02/01 in Saitama drew 3,150 headlined by Tatsumi Fujinami & Kengo Kimura vs Buzz Sawyer & Owen Hart. -- Bob Orton is having a great tour, and had a standout match against Riki Choshu. -- The juniors series ended on 02/07 in Sapporo with a Hase vs Koshinaka match. Hiroshi Hase is getting the big push, but the most over wrestlers are still Nobuhiko Takada and Kazuo Yamazaki. -- Owen Hart returns in May, which should kill any rumors of him being WWF-bound. -- "New Japan wrestler Naoki Sano, a prelim guy who is working in Mexico under the name Masked Bushido, which in Spanish means Samurai Spirit, won the UWA International Lightweight title from Astro De Oro while at the same time without his mask, Sano, Hirokazu Hata & Asai hold the Mexican 6-man tag title. -- Antonio Inoki proved to be very over in Italy. His shows drew 12,125 on 1/23 in Milan and 13,854 on 1/24 in Rome. -- Sambo champion Chris Dolman may have a match with Inoki over summer. ALL JAPAN -- No wrestling until late February -- Dave thinks he reported the Asian tag titles change last week incorrectly, and will get it cleared up. PUERTO RICO -- WWC in San Juan had a big show at a baseball stadium headlined by Carlos Colon vs Iron Sheik that drew 25,000 fans MEXICO -- "A brief rundown on the scene here. There are literally dozens of promotions in the country and wrestling draws huge crowds, although the gates aren't high by U.S. standards because of the weak peso so there are very few Americans working here and I don't believe there are any working here on a regular basis. Tickets generally range from $1.50 to $3 in U.S. money and even the main eventers earn something like $25 to $30 on cards which draw several thousand fans." -- MS-1 & Masakurae were recently named Mexico's Tag Team of the Year -- "Top drawing cards in Mexico include Perro Aguayo, Super Halcon, Super Muneco, the Japanese trio and of course veterans like Mil Mascaras, Dos Caras and El Canek." -- "Negro Casas, who some think is the best worker in the world, has resurfaced working out of Tijuana." -- One of the top heels is a Honky Tonk Man ripoff named Beautiful Elvis -- In the Mexico City metro arena alone, there are five cards every Wednesday, seven cards every Friday, and ten shows every Sunday, and still, shows in Mexico City draw in excess of 15,000 fans. Tijuana has two shows per week drawing 5,000-6,000 per show. OTHER -- An indy billed as Georgia Championship Wrestling has a 2/11 show booked in Albany headlined by Dale Veasy vs Scott Armstrong. Also on the card is Brickhouse Brown vs Hector Guerrero, Jerry Oates vs Ken Timbs and The MOD Squad vs The Children of Doom and Tom Prichard vs Ken Dillinger. They are using WWF graphics in their TV ad which is airing on several local stations. Crockett has a show in Albany on 2/9. -- Chavo Guerrero is now working in catering and is said to be retired. -- World Organization Wrestling ran a show on 01/22 in Philadelphia, MS drawing 150, headlined by Jerry Stubbs vs Bob Holly. Elsewhere on the card was Bob Sweetan vs Paul Diamond, and also a really strong 15:00 Pat Tanaka vs Davey Haskins match, where Pat Tanaka took such a strong bump off of a backdrop that he broke the ring. -- Former pro wrestler Robert Michael Doggendorf (Mike Doggendorf in Angelo Poffo's ICW) was arrested for beating his wife although the charges were lowered from a felony to misdemeanor. He works as a director of custody at the Fayette County Jail in Lexington, KY. -- Roddy Piper is doing great in Hollywood. He should never have to wrestle again unless he wants to, and he's in really high demand. DAVE'S RANKINGS 1. Owen Hart 2. Nobuhiko Takada 3. Ric Flair 4. Ted DiBiase 5. Masa Saito 6. Tatsumi Fujinami 7. Dick Murdoch 8. Barry Windham 9. Bruiser Brody 10. Curt Hennig 11. Bret Hart 12. Keichi Yamada 13. Terry Gordy 14. Rick Martel 15. Tiger Mask 16. Tully Blanchard 17. Bobby Eaton 18. Hiroshi Hase 19. Buzz Sawyer 20. Terry Taylor 21. Randy Savage 22. Brad Armstrong 23. Genichiro Tenryu 24. Shiro Koshinaka 25. Kazuo Yamazaki 26. Riki Choshu 27. Eddie Gilbert 28. Yoshiaki Yatsu 29. Ricky Steamboat 30. Yoshiaki Fujiwara TAG TEAMS 1. Bobby Eaton & Stan Lane 2. Rick Martel & Tito Santana 3. Tully Blanchard & Arn Anderson 4. Tatsumi Fujinami & Kengo Kimura 5. Riki Choshu & Masa Saito 6. The Islanders 7. Stan Hansen & Terry Gordy 8. Yoshiaki Fujiwara & Kazuo Yamazaki 9. Road Warriors 10. Genichiro Tenryu & Ashura Hara 11. Jumbo Tsuruta & Yoshiaki Yatsu 12. Tiger Mask & Shinichi Nakano 13. The Fantastics 14. Brad Armstrong & Tim Horner 15. Bruce Hart & Brian Pillman 16. Rock & Roll Express 17. Midnight Rockers 18. Super Strong Machine & Hiro Saito 19. Hart Foundation 20. Toshiaki Kawada & Samson Fuyuki WOMEN 1. Chigusa Nagayo 2. Lioness Asuka 3. Bull Nakano 4. Yukari Omori 5. Condor Saito 6. Yumiko Hotta 7. Itsuki Yamazaki 8. Kazue Nagahori 9. Noriyo Tateno 10. Leilani Kai 11. Mitsuko Nishiwaki 12. Dump Matsumoto 13. Rumi Kazama 14. Estelle Molina 15. Mika Komatsu 16. Lola Gonzales 17. Yumi Oguar 18. Drill Nakamae 19. Sherri Martel 20. Debbie Combs