Loss

If you think your point has merit, I welcome you to make the argument, but ask that you try to do it in a less aggressive way that a lot of board members see as trolling. I'm getting lots of complaints about this and don't want to ban anyone who likes MUGA, but it would be nice if we could play nice.

I think not reacting in the intended way is one thing. Something entirely different from last night, where it was a paying wrestling crowd that felt like the only difference between them and a Sturgis audience was the lack of motorcycles.

I'm going to do a mega-piece later with thoughts from as many people as possible on Saito. If anyone wants their thoughts added, either add them here or PM me. If you add them here but would rather not be attributed, please just say so and I'll leave you out of it.

Sure. Just saying, he'd be right to be mad at someone.

If Rollins did flip out on Twitter, I'd probably think higher of him. Set aside any issues of how good or bad the match was and ask yourself how angry you'd get if you're working really hard and it's not that it doesn't click or the crowd doesn't get as involved as you would have hoped, but more that they are entertaining themselves with chants and seem to have zero actual regard for the profession they claim to be fans of. There's an implied relationship where the people who buy tickets purport to be actual fans. Reacting this way to a match with that level of effort goes beyond what people do and don't pop for and comes across as making fun of wrestlers all while they're doing stuff that could injure them or worse.

Not sure I'm dreading the Ironman match. I liked their TV matches a good deal, and Dolph has actually been tolerable as a promo lately.

I agree with the general sentiment, just as much as I think it's also complicated and might just have to be that way. When their goal is to be global and have appeal in every market, the only thing they do that won't require translation is the in-ring. I know at one point, that was even their mindset -- that they needed to focus more on wrestling and less on storylines because English-language promos don't work globally. I think the other issue is that heels aren't distinguished from the company itself, so a heel doing something shocking or tasteless is seen as the company doing it, which is a reputation issue that comes with a heavy cost. This handcuffs them to the extent that heels can do things that are mean and bad, but to do things that would really get a viscerally negative reaction in 2018 would require pushing buttons in a way I can understand why they aren't comfortable doing. It would be perceived as the company doing it, not the heel himself or herself. Around the beginning of the decade, Vince made the call that WWE needed to be friendlier. They started courting media outlets a lot more. They started working to clean up their image and appeal to sponsors. The old WWE has reared its ugly head at times in moments like the Bill Demott or Mauro/JBL moments, but you'll notice that WWE took active steps in each of those cases to hush everything up. When you look at how WWE does PR, I think they've calculated that it's more important that their wrestlers are articulate, philanthropic, and professional than the Jimmy Valiant types that updated more modern times probably would be more effective drawing cards. I do think fans clamoring for better matches have played a role in that shift. I just don't think it's them alone, and I'm not sure it wouldn't have happened anyway. What WWE has decided they have more growth potential being meant casting aside of a lot of traditional pro wrestling staples that they had always used to great effect, even while it's always been a company that has defied wrestling norms to a certain extent. That means bye-bye real heels and bombastic personalities who do put more butts in seats but seem much dumber to the outside world. And in a landscape where the real customers are stockholders and TV executives, the outside world perceptions matter more than ever.

In terms of being everything being easy to navigate, pages loading quickly, content being released on consistent schedule, etc., I am the first to admit that PWO is still sputtering along. We'll get there. Believe it. Ambition, perfectionism, and working alone is a dangerous mix. I will add this label to the site but I think it's probably best for me & also to properly set expectations to consider this site in beta mode for the first three months or so. We'll eventually be in a rhythm and all will be great.

Talk about it here.

Talk about it here.

I cleaned up a lot of "junk" on the site a couple of days ago. Have you noticed any improvement on load time?

Beau James, a.k.a. King of Kingsport, has posted an episode of an old podcast called "Do You Wanna Be A Wrestler, Kid?" to his YouTube channel where he interviewed Randy Hales. Hales was the promoter of Power Pro Wrestling in Memphis, TN, from 1998-2001 and worked for many years before that for Jarrett Promotions, making him a mainstay in the Memphis wrestling scene of the time period. Topics include the USWA-WWF working relationship of the 1990s, Monday Night Memories, and Hales booking the USWA. You can listen below. Part 1: Part 2: Part 3: Part 4: UPDATE, July 15: Part 4 has also been added above. As Beau James mentioned to me on Twitter, he also conducted a two-part interview with Bill Dundee.

The Brazil-based Federacao Internacional de Luta Livre has posted a 30-minute Ironman match to their YouTube channel between Gabriel Nogueira and Anark Andy. The match took place on May 5 at the FILL 11 Años event in Rio de Janeiro. (Yes, an actual match happened there.)

YouTube user carlos lucha has posted matches Fight The World Wrestling's Breakin' It Down show on July 7 in Tampa, Florida to his channel. Links are included below. Full card: Damien Darling & Jack Gallow vs Alex Todd & Apolo Jr. Luis Adams vs Tony Ortega Amber Nova vs Layne Rosario vs Natalia Markova vs Rosalie Valle Max Power vs Josh Grady Chico Adams & Spectacular JC vs Kevin Powers & Salazar Austin Gunn vs Ricky Arness Bryan Idol vs Mike Reed Deondre Motion & Zebediah Cole vs Kayden Greene & Ronnie Rios Billy Gunn vs Deimos Let us know what you think of these matches by starting threads to discuss them at the Pro Wrestling Only forums! Are you one of the wrestlers or promoters involved with this card? Contact us and we'll help put a spotlight on your matches and promote your merchandise to our readers.

Gene Jackson of the Locals To Legends Radio podcast posted an interview with Madman Pondo yesterday that's worth a listen, especially for fans of death match wrestling. Topics covered include Pondo's stints in Herb Abrams' UWF and Kick Ass Wrestling in Memphis. Pondo also reflects on Insane Clown Posse, how Girl Fight was formed, $5 Wrestling, and more. Pondo recently released his autobiography, Memoirs of a Madman, that looks to be a must-read. With a foreword written by Vanilla Ice, Pondo dives into his career both as a pro wrestler and as a casting agent for the Jerry Springer Show. Pondo was a BJW mainstay for a decade and was also a long-term death match scene regular in IWA Mid-South and Combat Zone Wrestling.

Hmm, that doesn't work for me at all. Single-click or double-click? And do this from the open thread or from the main page?

Title Match Wrestling has posted a free match to their YouTube channel from Battle Club Pro's Malice at the Palace, which took place on June 16 in Stafford Springs, Connecticut. In this match, Su Yung faces Harlow O'Hara in a Last Woman Standing match. Check it out below. The rest of the card is available with a two-week free trial for new users on Title Match Wrestling's Network. Other matches on the show include: Hudson Envy vs Davienne Tasha Steelz vs Kaitlin Diemond Candy Cartwright vs Nikki Adams Veda Scott vs Allie Kat Katred vs Vanity Santana Garrett vs Kylie Rae Gabby Ortiz vs Solo Darling

WWE.com has just dabbled in high art with a photo series depicting current wrestlers as ECW performers. This includes Shinsuke Nakamura as Sabu, Lana as The Sandman, Rusev as Cactus Jack, New Day as the Dudley Boyz, and even Asuka as Stevie Richards, among others. You can view the full slideshow here.

New Japan Pro Wrestling July 8, 1994 Summer Struggle Sapporo, Japan 9.4 It's a status that in many ways he still holds today. Jushin Liger is simply The Man. He's been The Man for the better part of thirty years in New Japan Pro Wrestling, setting up worthwhile opponents to knock them down. In terms of longevity and match quality, Liger has as strong a case as any wrestler for being the greatest of all time. That reputation was already well established on April 16, 1994, when New Japan Pro Wrestling ran the first Super J Cup. It wasn't the very first tournament of its kind, but it was the most high-profile one, and it was certainly a groundbreaking event. More than even the final match of the evening, a match rated ***** in the Wrestling Observer Newsletter and an all-time classic in its own right, the most memorable match on the card was probably the Jushin Liger vs Great Sasuke semi-final. In an iconic moment near the end of the match, Sasuke springboarded to the top rope, only to fall off on his own and collapse at Liger's feet. It was a sequence intended to set up the finish. Thinking on his feet, Liger casually applauded and worked toward an improvised finish a few moments later, and Sasuke won, which advanced him to the finals where he faced "Wild Pegasus" Chris Benoit. If Sasuke won the first match, why would he wrestle as the underdog and aggressor the second time around? Funny you ask. Because of the fluke nature of Sasuke's win, Liger's sterling reputation, and Sasuke's impressive but limited standing as the ace of a small independent group based in Northeastern Japan, it was Sasuke who came into this match with more to prove. That was evident in how the match was worked, with Sasuke charging at Liger immediately. The match, despite its end result with Liger reigning victorious, was also clearly a project designed to get Sasuke over. He wrestled the match on even footing with the top junior heavyweight in the country. They also wrestled this more like a Sasuke match than a Liger match. Contrary to popular belief, high flying was never really a critical part of what made Liger great. Sure, he was great at it, but he didn't need to fly to be great. 1994 might have been the last year Liger did a notable amount of flying anyway, as he retooled his game after his brain tumor removal in 1996 to move even more toward a mat-based style. This match had more high flying than Liger matches typically did at this point, which got over the idea that Sasuke was forcing him to wrestle his own type of match. This match acted as the inverse of the J-Cup. In that outing, Liger dominated most of the match, only for Sasuke to hit a few key big moves at just the right time and bring it all home. This time around, it was Sasuke controlled most of the match and Liger who got lucky by hitting one big move -- a super fisherman's buster -- at the end. The end result is that despite trading wins, Sasuke was put over strong in both matches by an opponent who was always hungry for new rivals who could go on his level. It's debatable whether Sasuke ever truly became that opponent in the way Shinjiro Otani did, for example, but they did produce matches that were not only the best of Sasuke's career, but were near the top of Liger's extensive highlight list too.

Talk about it here.

Talk about it here.

Talk about it here.

Great American Bash 1988: The Price For Freedom Baltimore, Maryland NWA World Heavyweight Championship July 10, 1988 7.5 In Japan, multi-year chases are fairly common, but that has never really translated to American audiences for whatever reason. Chalk it up to the reactionary tendencies of promoters when gates aren't at a certain level. Maybe it's a lack of conviction. Maybe it's even that pro wrestling has always been more of a fad-based interest than a long-term hobby for most casual viewers. Maybe it's even differences in culture, as it's much easier to plan that type of story in a company where it's almost unthinkable that a homegrown talent would leave and go to the competition (even if it did occasionally happen). Regardless, the idea of fans, promoters, and wrestlers sticking with a six-year chase to an undercard title win the way AJPW handled the Masa Fuchi vs Tsuyoshi Kikuchi feud from 1990-1996 are pretty unlikely on this side of the Pacific. The Ric Flair-Lex Luger rivalry is interesting to think about in that context. Between 1988 and 1991, through changes in ownership, executive leadership, and even the name of the very company where the rivalry played out, the two wrestled each other five times on pay-per-view and once on a Clash of the Champions TV special. Flair turned twice during this time, Luger three times going on four -- they were even set to do a sixth pay-per-view match, the one that would finally pay off Luger's perpetual chase, before contract negotiations broke down and Flair bolted for the WWF. The rivalry sustained through all of that, and defiantly, it seemed to be a feud that just kept falling up. Despite the chaos that surrounded it, Flair-Luger always worked, even if it did play to diminishing returns. It worked so well in the summer and fall of 1988 that it gave David Crockett temporary hope that they would not have to sell the company to Turner Broadcasting. Flair and Luger did massive house show business during a time that Crockett was dying, and even in 1990, when Luger stepped in to hastily turn babyface to substitute for an injured Sting, Wrestle War '90 did a surprisingly good buyrate and house show attendance had a short-lived mini-spike. It was a rivalry people were interested in following and the prevalent belief, years before wrestling conditioned its fans to never expect anything to pay off, was that this had to pay off somewhere and that they wanted to see it happen. That continued investment can be attributed to how well these matches were worked. Flair saw his role as not to have a great match with Luger, although they would eventually have some classics. Instead, he saw his role as to make him look invincible. Flair has told a story many times about how he drew the ire of Arn Anderson and Tully Blanchard because of how he worked with Luger; Arn and Tully thought Ric's pinball bumping and obsessive begging off was a little too much self sacrifice. Flair explained to them that he saw his role as to both carry Luger and teach him how to draw money at the same time, so he had to work in overdrive to pull it off. They weren't quite there yet at this early stage of the feud, but it was clear that once they settled into their formula, Ric Flair and Lex Luger would have a sure thing. Flair has always defended Luger as someone who never had the opportunity to really learn how to work because he was pushed to the top right away. While Flair's graciousness is appreciated, he was selling Luger short. This match had some rough spots because it was Luger's first time to be in such a pressure-packed main event position, to the point that Dave Meltzer commented in the Wrestling Observer Newsletter that the match looked like two independent wrestlers trying to copy a Flair match than it did an actual Flair match. However, Luger reminded us all that he was an excellent athlete in spite of any other critiques leveled his way -- his surprise leapfrog and dropkick were legitimately great moments. Over time, Luger did exactly what Flair hoped he would do -- he learned on the job and adapted. By the time they met again on pay-per-view four months later at Starrcade, Luger had dropped about 15 pounds in muscle and improved his cardio so he could do long matches without getting winded. By the time they wrestled a year after that, Luger was strong enough to carry a match between the two of them offensively while working heel. While Luger never really learned how to do a proper figure-four leglock, he did have one of the best heel runs of his era in 1989 as U.S. champion and had a clear hot streak on pay-per-view that lasted a good two or three years. He gelled wonderfully with Flair, who would take his own trademark bumps in exaggerated fashion during their matches -- usually two or three high-elevation press slams, big back body drops, the slam from the top rope, and the Flair flip into the clothesline off the apron. The "Flair Formula" as we know it didn't originate in the Luger series, but that's where it was tweaked and cultivated. None of this addresses what this match is most notorious for, and that's the finish. Luger was barely cut at all, the match was stopped by the Maryland State Athletic Commission for Lex's "excessive lacerations", and Flair retained on a technicality. It did lead to a massive house show run of Flair-Luger matches, sold on the idea that they don't stop matches for blood loss in YOUR town, so YOU might just see a title change. However, I'll reprint a fan letter from the October 3, 1988, issue of the Observer explaining the problem with this booking, even though it worked in the short-term, and which Meltzer defended for that reason. "Your comment that, ipso fact, the ridiculous Flair-Luger blood angle on the PPV Bash was a success because live gates were up immediately was the most naive thing I've ever read by you. Don't you think infuriating the PPV audience was more significant than live audience, a totally different and relatively microscopic portion of the potentially vast PPV audience? The NWA's biggest problem is they never take the long view. Like children, they live in the eternal here and now. People are turned out of the blue (Windham, Luger, Murdoch, Garvin) with no build up because they need heat at some shows. They get good notices on Clash and think they've won the wrestling war. They draw a few good live gates and suddenly Dusty and Jimbo are convinced they've been right all along and should continue to run the organization even after Turner spends good money on it. " -- Bill Kunkel, Woodhaven, NY This match being the catalyst, the Flair-Luger feud acted as a platform for a lot of people to project their own biases, ideas, and truths, including promoters, wrestlers, reporters, and even fans like Mr. Kunkel of Woodhaven. It was hard to cut through the noise and appreciate the matches for what they were, but it's something that became easier with time as Luger gained confidence and Flair found in-ring sanctuary from the constant politics of the new TBS environment. While it was a long-running program that left behind so much collateral damage and Luger developed a "choker" label that followed him for the rest of his career as a result of this very match, it did eventually become a really rewarding series. This isn't the match to watch to see the absolute best version of these two against each other, but it's a primitive look at where they'd go through the turmoil, growth, and fallout of the next few years, accidentally crafting a compelling long-term story in spite of itself.

Proving Ground Pro has published some of their No Broken Promises show from May 18 in Washington, Illinois, on their YouTube channel. In two first-round matches of the one-night tournament to crown a PGP Cutting Edge Champion, Jake Lander faced Jah C and Tyler Matrix faced Paco Gonzalez. You can watch the matches below. Let us know what you think of these matches by starting threads to discuss them at the Pro Wrestling Only forums! Are you one of the wrestlers or promoters involved with this card? Contact us and we'll help put a spotlight on your matches and promote your merchandise to our readers.

Talk about it here.