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I'm not as anti-Edge as a lot of people because he at least worked as a heel to draw boos against John Cena at the peak of his fan backlash unlike others, most notably Triple H, in an effort to undermine Cena. That said, I can't foresee ever voting for him. Edge seems destined to hang around at about 30-35% of the vote for 15 years on the ballot, because if he was going in, he'd have done so already, especially with Meltzer championing his cause.

Kurt Angle was controversial when he went in because it was in 2004, less than five years after his WWE debut (whilst also missing quite a bit of time due to injuries in '03 and '04). Unlike others whose cases are strengthened post-induction, the fact that his personal demons spiralled out of control less than two years later and he ended up in TNA for the rest of his career, he's still a debatable candidate. I'm of the belief that if DiBiase was put up to a vote he'd have gone in, although maybe not immediately. He seems too highly respected by his peers for him not to make it.

They're too sexy for this thread. Don't be so deeply dippy!

It's worth noting that likely all of Bischoff's predecessors would have turned a small profit if TBS had paid them rights fees for WCW programming.

Well, free trade killed the NWA and AWA too. There's a famous story of the Crabtrees trying to get onto satellite TV after they were booted off terrestrial television (where their production was paid for and they got a rights fee) and the offer was for a comparatively derisory amount, because the WWF had lowered the bar as to what wrestling shows were worth. So instead they milked what was left of the Big Daddy drawing power by running one-off nostalgia shows around the country.

One of the things that's so frustrating about the Big Daddy debate is how people dismiss him out of hand without understanding the business here. Saying he "had the long-term effect of permanently killing all professional wrestling as a viable industry in England forever" is ridiculous when less than four years after ITV cancelled British wrestling, the WWF drew the biggest crowd in their history, a record that stands to this very day. What killed the local wrestling scene was the fact that American promotions like the WWF and WCW could provide tapes of their programming for rock bottom prices that promoters here couldn't compete with. Could they have forestalled cancellation by not running with a pat hand for so long and providing more up to date entertainment? Probably, but the end result was going to be the same, once the WWF got a foothold in the market. The ballot mentions that "A candidate should either have something to offer in all three categories, or be someone so outstanding in one or two of those categories that they deserve inclusion" so just pointing out that he was a horrid worker isn't enough to exclude him from the HOF. At his peak (1979-1982) he drew consistently well (in the traditional wrestling venues) to the point that independent bookers who hired Daddy on a Saturday (best day to draw a crowd) would have to hand out 50% of the profits to him, and was a household name through appearances on non-wrestling TV shows, having his own comic strip and having a brand of brown sauce/ketchup named after him. He also sold out Wembley Arena twice for two of the biggest events in British wrestling history up to that point in time. It should also be noted that before Big Daddy got hot as an act, the British wrestling scene was struggling in the mid '70s and thus he was a shot in the arm for the industry here, at least the shows he was on. Where the hatred of the Crabtrees come from is that the combination of promoting one star above all others and a long economic recession in the early 1980s meant there was less demand for shows in the UK (that said, around 1200 wrestling shows were ran in 1983, which shows how different the business model here was). There was disaffection at how the Crabtrees divvied the work up, with many people believing they played favourites rather than give work to the best talent. I think that would be a more valid black mark against his candidacy if Big Daddy was on the ballot as a promoter rather than as a wrestler.

The USA Network didn't offer a true matching offer, so they took the best deal at the time. The mistake was Vince McMahon agreeing to TUF being Raw's lead-in.

Yes, some of it was due to the channel they were on, but at most you can blame the move for 20% of the drop. Still, it was more than worth it for the massive hike in domestic TV rights fees they received, which raised what they could ask for in future negotiations.

Moving to Spike TV was the right move, they were just wrong to believe that the ratings erosion they suffered from 2000-2005 was due to the channel they were on and they tipped their hand too much in contract renegotiations with Spike.

I don't see Wilson and Barrios as good candidates at the moment given that before they came to the company in 2007 WWE grossed $485.7M and posted a $52.1M profit. They entered an already successful company, but have seen profits decline under their watch in the first half of this decade. They mishandled expectations of the NBCUniversal deal, which led to a stock price crash and investor lawsuits. If the WWE Network becomes a big success and leads to record profitability in the latter half of this decade, then maybe you could make the case for them. Bryan Gerwirtz would probably the best behind the scenes guy to put on the ballot at the moment, as he was Monday Night Raw's lead writer for over a decade. He'd be a tough sell to get people to vote for though. But that longevity in the role is impressive.

If you're willing to accept the MMA boom in Japan as a positive influence, Tamura would rank fairly low down the list behind Inoki, Maeda, Takada, Funaki, Sakuraba and arguably Fujiwara. I mean Maeda was the one who turned RINGS into an all-shoot format not Tamura. I don't see it as a strong positive for Tamura's case.

OK, it was part of that deal, thought it came earlier.

Boricua was a really great guest as it's important to understand the cultural background to a candidate's Hall Of Fame case and how they were perceived locally by fans. (Ahem see Big Daddy). Kris, can you explain more behind the background to Valentine working WWC whilst under contract to the WWF?

It's worth noting that their grandpa used to beat up their grandma. So yeah, it's messed up.

Dave isn't going to drastically overhaul the system, so I think any suggested improvements have to be based on the current framework. It's clear that he's not going to change the eligibility criterion to "40 years old/20 years in a major league promotion" or higher, as he'd have to remove 8 candidates from the ballot or go five years until the next crop of modern candidates hit 40. The only solution I see is if Dave himself becomes more conservative at adding wrestlers still in their prime years on the ballot. Allow people to build their candidacies and only put them on the ballot when they are clearly slowing down as a worker. With regards to the problems with the region system, I think it would be best to scrap the "AUSTRALIA/PACIFIC ISLANDS/CARIBBEAN/AFRICA" region and replace it with an international historical category for wrestlers that worked multiple regions. I'd foresee the people being in such a category being: George Gordienko (wrestled all over the world) Mike & Ben Sharpe (big stars in northern California, as well as Japan) Spyros Arion (headliner in New York and Australia, as well as worked in Europe towards the beginning and end of his career) Johnny Barend (worked a variety of American territories before homesteading in Hawaii) Brute Bernard & Skull Murphy (had runs as tag champions in Florida and New York, as well as Australia) Domenic DeNucci (worked a variety of American territories, although his greatest stardom came in Australia) Killer Karl Kox (was a big star in Texas, as well as Australia) Mark Lewin (worked almost everywhere) Mario Milano (was a star in Tennessee before moving to Australia) Ricki Starr (drew in multiple territories in North America before moving to the UK) I'd also give candidates like Miguel Perez Sr. and King Kong Czaja another shot in this new category. Kimura could be moved here (because of his matches with Helio Gracie and Valdemar Santana in Brazil) or stay in the Japan section. That leaves Carlos Colon, who hopefully goes in this year, which would solve that problem. If not, he's such a unique candidate I think he should be put up to a straight vote (yes - one of the ten best candidates on the ballot, no he's not or abstain), as Dave doesn't seem like he wants to put other Puerto Rican stars on the ballot.

Tenkoji's not getting in. They got hardly any support last year and I can't see their case as a team improving with age. I wouldn't be surprised if they fell off the ballot this year.

That's what happened to me too. This year I ended up leaving Weston off my ballot this year because I didn't want to be in the Historical Wrestlers category. That's why Jarrett is unclear. I think Jerry Jarrett is considered a modern candidate and will be for some time, as he promoted in Memphis well into the mid '90s and was instrumental in starting up TNA.

That's definitely something that should be clarified on the ballot itself. I know I voted for Stanley Weston last year whilst abstaining from the Historical Wrestlers category.

I think the problems with the eligibility criterion has worsened with the 15 years on the ballot rule. In lucha, many wrestlers drawing power peak late, as the value of their mask/hair grows, and they're adding to their Hall of Fame cases well into their 50s. Look at Atlantis who has had three of his biggest career matches past the age of 49. Hell, Sting just headlined a WWE pay-per-view at age 56.

Raw was strong in the ratings pretty much from day one, usually being in the mid 2's to low 3's range, peaking on August 9th for a 3.4 rating for the Lex Luger vs. Yokozuna contract signing. The preemptions for the U.S. Open tennis tournament took the WWF a few weeks to recover from before getting back to normal levels. LT did boost Raw's ratings, but only to near record levels. Ratings actually peaked in the late spring of '95 with Bigelow vs. Diesel doing a record 3.9 rating on April 24th and Undertaker vs. Jeff Jarrett matching that rating on May 29th.

Really good show guys. Although the USA Network is behind them today, I think WWE would be foolish to get too complacent over declining ratings. Tough Enough was a disaster from a ratings standpoint, partly blamed by USA on "wrestling’s popularity cycling downward". Wrestling history is littered with shows that drew good viewership for their stations that were still cancelled over weak ad rates. At the very least, declining interest hurts WWE's bargaining leverage and might make it difficult to command the escalation in TV rights fees that the company has grown used to.

Sasaki benefits a lot from the power of the interpromotional dream match. Hard to see him getting in without those Dome shows with Kawada and Kobashi.

No-one defends Daddy the worker. He is more culturally significant in his home country than Muto though.

I always find that pretty suspect. Unless Japanese journalists are just voting for everyone. It made sense with Funaki (given that he's in largely based on being a shootfighting innovator, which a lot of non-native voters wouldn't consider as pro wrestling). I understand Bix's point of view, but there's also the counter argument that knowledgeable foreign voters can better compare candidates across regions.

More from Irv Muchnick about Procanyn's lies: The incident a few months before Nancy’s death, at a Howard Johnson’s motel just outside Syracuse, was trifling, a misunderstanding. “It was just a nervous desk clerk,” Procanyn told me.