Smack2k

I thought about this while building a new GOLD image for the VM Ware Enviornment at work today.... I think the Invasion could have been made WAY better, with not a huge expense, with three moves: 1. Get Scott Steiner to sign and bring him in under the heel Big Poppa Pump character and let him be Big Poppa Pump, bad ass, bad interviews and all...his attitude on screen in that character was fuckin gold... 2. Get Flair in earlier (4 months earlier), and make him the Heyman of WCW...Shane and Steph could still be owners as that made sense with the money and the idea of ECWCW actually is good with the talent that had. 3. Book DDP better when he comes in as an actual main eventer and a star, not getting destroyed by Taker repeatitively and then Taker's wife. Steiner can show up at Invasion and cost WWF the match. You can keep the same team at Invasion as it actually works with the last REAL ECW Tag Team (Dudley's) / The last TV / World ECW Champ, Booker as the last and reigning WCW US / World Champ and a MUCH better booked DDP, who was the heart and soul of WCW... Have Flair get involved as well at Invasion.. Then you can go from there with storylines and if you want to bring the NWO in later, it could work if say WWF was taking the lead in the promotional battle come early '02... Sting and Goldberg had HUGE deals and it wouldnt have been worth it at the time, but down the road having them show up could work, if the storyline isnt over by then... Thoughts?

That makes total sense and would definately explain that happening....but Flair and Steiner they could have done, booked DDP better and you have a MUCH better Invasion

Right, it makes no sense if that is the true story... "Hey Spike, want a show that will get you at LEAST 1+ ratings weekly?" "No, it doesnt say WWF" "But its owned by WWF, and you know how good they are these days.." "No, it doesnt say WWF" I think I forget that people are just fuckin stupid sometimes and stuck on what they believe

I NEVER understood that about WCW…even at its lowest, it was still getting bigger ratings than anything on TNT (or just about), but AOL/TW didn't want it on TV? I don't get why Jamie Kellner did that…its throwing money away, unless advertisers weren't interested in it, but with mid 2's ratings, it had to be appealing. But it could go back to the thread on here a week or so ago that talked about ratings not always equaling advertising dollars due to who is watching and getting those ratings…..

I meant more along the lines of doing the storyline they did up to Invasion but added some of those guys...The way the buyrate FELL after Invasion shows they either didnt have the power they needed for the Alliance + the royally fucked it up due to acting like a 12 year old that beat their competition and now wants to rub it in on them and prove how great they are, even knowing that they could make a TON more money by doing some really easy things....Fuck, if egos werent such a big deal, how cool could wrestling be!! But money wise, could they have swung getting some of them, and if so, who? I dont know the WWF Financial position in 2001 or how things looked, but I know some of you on here are deep into that shit, which I think is cool as shit, so I am hoping you could shed some light on it.. Loss, I tend to agree with you, but waiting that long may have lost a LOT of momentum...waiting till July hurt it somewhat...but again, could they afford to do it? Parv, I think they wanted to have a WCW show on TNN or something on Sat nights, but the channels did not want something without the WWF name on them, or something like that and then the Booker T / Bagwell match buried it, even though it was never really given a shot and almost done to say "See, I told you, they suck, we win...crush them..." Must be nice to have enough money that driving a point into the ground instead of doing something easy to make a LOT more money is the choice you make..

Trying to find that book in stores...may have to order it.

I am hoping some of you with more of the monetary background on wrestling in terms of buyrates / cash / profits made as well as salaries being made by the wrestlers and other costs, can help me out here as I try to figure out a question I have wondered about for a few years... When the WWF Invasion PPV happened, it got a 1.43 buyrate (775,000 buys), which was a GREAT number. Judging from the shows before it: Backlash - 375,000 buys - .94 Judgment Day - 405,000 buys - .75 King Of The Ring - 445,000 buys - .84 The idea of the Invasion and possibility of what could happen was BIG business... Summerslam 2001 had a big drop afterward due to bad booking, but that is a story for another day... My question is, since Invasion got such a huge buy (only Mania's were bigger) with the WCW / ECW talent they had, would it have been financially wise to have picked up a couple of the big contracts (with the thought that the talent said yes) and brought them in to lead up to Invasion /be in the Inaugural Brawl? I'd imagine that buyrate would have been even bigger (dont know how much) if some or all of Goldberg / Nash / Steiner / Flair / Sting came in as well.. So would it have been worth it? Also, for the contracts, could they have just picked them up from Turner (AOL / Time Warner) and continued to pay them, or would they have had to pay them out an amount (Buyout) and sign them to a new deal? Not sure how that works either... Steiner - $600,000 / year through Nov 2001 Nash - $1,625,000 / year - dont know when it ended Sting - $1,000,000 / year through 2003 (maybe not) Flair - $750,000 / Year (this must have ended as he showed up in Nov. 2001) Goldberg - $2,000,000 / Year (tough) So with all that, what do you think? I dont know how the buyouts or contracts would have worked, but curious if some or all showed up, could they have made money?

If you have never seen Taylor's heel run in UWF from his turn on Chris Adams all the way through Starrcade 87 in Crockett, do yourself a favor a watch it...Taylor is fuckin amazing as Johnny said in that role and to me was "Taylor Made" (ha ha) to be a heel. His build to the break with Chris was cool as well, and the feud afterward was decent. He and Eddie Gilbert make a great pair in the end of UWF and the few months they are in Crockett. I remember thinking he was gonna be a guy to watch (I was 9 at the end of '87, so what did I know!) and someone that could be a star. Even when he left Crockett and went down to Texas and WCCW for a while, he was a GREAT heel that they put the Texas Title on and had a good feud with Kevin VE, until he walked and went to WWF and, well, that was that. Even his 1990 WCW days as a face were decent in ring, as he had a good 3 match,, 10 min TV Title matches with Arn in the fall that are some of my favorite short TV Title matches...He was OK on the mic to... So I never understood why he wasn't at least given a chance in 88 WWF to be something other than the Rooster....I have no idea what that story is...

I will be picking that up...

Samoa Joe... TNA fucked that up SOOO bad in 2007 it was sad,....then they had a chance to redeem it in 2008 when he beats MMA Angle in the cage...then loses to Sting like right afterward at Bound For Glory during the "Sting wins the title at BFG every year" run, then disappears into virutal obscurity on the shows to the point that he doesnt really even care to stay in any great shape (he never was a great body, but fuck he could go for an hour + and have great matches)...and have a tattoo and threatening peopel with a knife? FUck, I would have stopped caring to! I am sure WWE would have pushed him furhter, they LOVE Samoans, but not as a top guy either... But he would be my pick hands down....I remember in 2006 after the Angle series thinking "Shit, TNA has a huge main event draw right in their hands, Jarrett isnt ruling the top anymore, this is a no-brainer...then......well.....yeah....

Sorry I brought up, it was in teh heat of my rant on him....I really had no rights to attack that...I just have a lot of friends in the military that didnt take to that too well and still dont like him.... But please delete the part of the post if you;d like and this one if needed! I will stick to hating him for being terrible in WWE...lol

I can honestly say there has NEVER been a main eventer that has lasted this long that I have disliked more...since I got into wrestling seriously in late 85....Not one redeeming quality. I will REALLY appreciate when he's not on TV every week...but then if he comes back, I'd would be so appreciative! To me, its just really really strange that as a young mid-carder, joining Evolution (2002 - mid '04) he was great. He had character, he had that something that made you like or hate him. I enjoyed seeing him on the mic and in the ring (vs. RVD in 2003 at Armageddon and RAW come to mind)...but he fell off a CLIFF when he turned face after Summerslam 2004 and never got "IT" back. There isnt a role ANYWHERE he'd be good. Just cause things would be strange, he'd probably go to TNA and be good...opposite of the good WWE guys that went there and werent!

Randy Orton has, since 2006, not only not entertained me, but made me want to turn the channel completely when he was / is on. He has 0 charisma, isnt great in the ring to cover it up. His promos are awful. He has grown up over the years it seems from his younger days where he was good in the ring and mic but an ass outside the ring...There was one spot where he was coming back...August 07 - Dec 07, but he lost it again...and Cena and Shawn were why he was good during that time is my opinion. Back to today, there is just NOTHING that could be done to make him any better cause I dont think he has what it takes to be that kind of guy, no matter what WWE does to him, rebuild or not...he is a hole for charisma and not a believable character.. That and the dishonorable discharge from the military is disgusting as well..... SO yeah, if he left, things would be better to me, as it would open a main spot to someone that actually has a shot to bring things in WWE back up.... Worthless...no I have never been in a ring or think I could entertain a crowd, but I am not paid to, he is..and he fails miserably at it! And to hear him bash fans for just talking and never living it, I hope he NEVER has made one comment about a movie or even another job type, cause he has never done it or lived it... Why treated as a star? I have no idea outside of they have no idea what else to do and are afraid to take a chance and make big waves as it could force things to get worse OR better, and they seem to like stable.

Did Mike Graham vs. Greg Gagne ever happen? Guilty pleasure I'd like to see….

No or at least I'm not aware of it ever happening. I hope I'm not breaking the rules by posting this: When is this from??? I dont remember ANY of this feud.

Let me know immediately!!!

Thanks, that is the info I had found already as well.... ECW in late 92 and 93 was just another show, but the TWA and WWA are two I'd love to know the insides of, as they got along at first ( The Battle of the Belts co show) and then became bitter rivals with ECW and WWA, before Heyman got ECW to join the NWA.. Would love to know some of the things done (probably not great, but underhanded) by each (ECW and WWA) to try and gain control of the Philly Indy Scene with talent as well as with the promoters (Gordan and Coraluzzo)

Are there any good detailed write-ups on the TSWA / WWA / early ECW days in Philly in 90 - early 93? Would love to read about how these all worked and what was going on in each in terms of booking and matches and such...fascinating to me and I can only find small bits and pieces here and there about it as almost every BIG detail starts in April of 93 with ECW, along with Match listings for the TSWA shows, but nothing else...