cm funk

Just listened to the interview and really enjoyed it. Highly recommended. It's a nice companion piece to the interview he did with Colt. Marc clearly has a greater understanding and respect for wrestling as performance than he did before talking to Colt and came into the conversation well prepared. In a different life Maron might have been a huge wrestling fan

I can't say I'm a fan of JBL's commentary, and I'm always perplexed when I see him getting praise on boards. But at the very least, his being there has upped Cole's game several notches. Lawler has been on autopilot for years....and the Cole/Lawler team had reached a point where it was the Peanuts teacher to me. Cole at least seems more engaged and confident with JBL there. The JBL dated references and Cole calling him on it is a running gag, a bit they're doing. That doesn't mean it's good or funny, but they're doing it on purpose.

I'd start, like other people have said, from as early as possible so you can get the full context of the promotion. I know if I'd never seen JCP/WCW and only heard things about it that's what I'd do. I didn't start watching WCW til 91-92ish, but I went back and watched a lot over the years....all the major shows....as much of the tv as I could find. I particularly enjoyed 84-85 tv

I'm not a particularly big Tito Santana fan......but Tito is so >>>>>>> Kofi......and it's not even close If you transported Kofi to 1985 would his flashy offense and athletic ability get him over? probably.....and he he might actually be a better worker by sheer inertia because you couldn't be as sloppy and illogical as Kofi tends to be back in that time. If you transported Tito to 2013 would he be instantly one of the biggest stars on the roster? definitely.

Haven't listened yet, but I'm a big fan of Maron's podcast. Check out the one he did a while back with Colt Cabana. There's a cool, "I know absolutely nothing about wrestling, but I'm fascinated by it" vibe from Maron that makes it an interesting conversation, and they bond over being struggling/starving artists who've had to deal with a lot of rejection in their careers. Very interested to see how Maron and Punk interact.

This sentence epitomizes the dearth of creativity in WWE booking. How many feuds start these days because someone beats someone else up for no reason? There are no real storylines anymore, just vague feuds where the participants trade beatdown segments every week before a match at the big show, and then rinse and repeat until they have fought on about three consecutive PPVs. There are way too many rematches these days and way too many heatless, uninteresting feuds without a solid reason behind them. The night they started the program it was done very well. Bryan tries to cripple HBK.....Hunter doesn't come out to save him. Commercial. Backstage Bryan is brutally attacked by The Wyatts. Bray says, "the devil made me do it". Brie Bella is forced to wrestle immediately afterwards, visibly upset. Later in the show, The Wyatts target Punk....the one guy who hasn't been focused against "The Authority" because he's been so busy with Paul Heyman. Bryan and Punk are now allies with common enemies. Oh and to top that off, Bryan's former running buddy Kane, the guy who the Wyatts abducted and took off of tv.....kneels before Stephanie McMahon? This was all great stuff with so much potential if they connect the dots right.....problem is they haven't really been doing that since that night. I think whoever booked all that on RAW had great ideas.....but the next week they could all be tossed out the window because of way their creative is so chaotic and schizo. I can imagine what would be a great way to book all of that stuff into a cohesive and coherent story....but I doubt we'll see it

I don't agree with this at all, and it's a false equivalency. The question is would more people pay for Bryan/Punk v. Harper/Rowan, or for the 6 on 6 Survivor match? The crowd went NUTS when they had that big 6 on 6 brawl segment. They love Bryan. They love Punk. The Rhodes boys and Usos are super over right now. They popped big for that Shield v. Wyatts tease. Doing a 6 on 6 match with all those guys would be way more of a drawing card than a straight tag with Bryan/Punk against the least over of those 12 guys. If you're going to tease that match and then not book it? It doesn't make any sense. Meltzer seems to think that they're booking week to week right now and are just dropping and starting stuff without concrete ideas......and from watching the shows I tend to agree. The whole payoff to the Big Show angle was supposed to be Vince.....they booked and advertised him being on tv the night after HIAC.....then they changed their minds. After they'd done the whole damn angle for two months. And then the payoff they came up with instead was super weak. They haven't even booked a single Survivor match yet. Or anything really. Two title matches and a tag match a week out. I think people who read my posts here know I'm a big fan of WWE's presentation, but how can I not shit on them when they book like this?

I think they should go back to the traditional Survivor Series format, and I've felt that way for years. Survivor Series felt like a special show because it was different. When I was a kid it was probably my favorite show to see. Now it's just treated like any other random PPV show. Why is it Survivor Series now? It's just a name. I know they have that rationale of "gimmick PPVs don't sell" or whatever, but that's bs. The second most important show of the year is a gimmick ppv, and it's important because they actually treat it like it's a big deal. Survivor is just a throwaway ppv to them now, which sucks

BE FAIR TO FLAIR

the card is insanely weak right now Orton v Big Show, which ok, they've done a good job pushing Show and he's over as a babyface now, but nobody really wants to pay to see this Cena v Del Rio? meh. Cena beat him clean with an injured arm, they totally threw Del Rio under the bus here. Nobody is gonna pay to see this, and nobody thinks Del Rio has a chance Bryan/Punk v The Wyatts? I don't know what the f they are doing here. They did that big angle with Punk/Bryan/Usos/Rhodes family v The Shield and the Wyatts......then they book a tag match? why? It's a week out from Survivor Series and they've booked 3 matches, none of which anyone is going to pay to see. Will The Shield have a match? Will the tag titles be defended? US title? IC title? Nobody knows and consequently nobody cares. I could book a Survivor Series better in my sleep

don't say Lawler

Ole Anderson Roddy Piper Flair and Dusty obviously who else?

I'm sure there's a lot of reasons for that. Video was a lot more expensive to produce at the time, and with new tech the public always gets milked for as much profit as can be made. VHS and video rental bit into existing revenue streams. Even blank VHS tapes were ridiculously expensive in the 80's And of course you always hear the stories about how in the 70's tape was so expensive that territories would just record over footage It's always like that with new media technology. I'm sure some people here older than me can talk about how expensive it was to buy cassette tapes back in the day, or CDs when that was the new medium. I don't even want to know how much I paid for my first Walkman or my first Discman. The first CD burners cost like $500 bucks, they were shitty and slow, and the blank CDs cost an arm and a leg as well.

I think you guys are missing the point I was trying to make. I'm not white knighting for Paige here.

No, I'm not discounting that at all. But it's telling that Eva Marie and Jo-Jo get put on tv before someone like Paige

Don't lump Maryse in that category. She may have been hired because she was a model, but she became pretty damn entertaining in the ring over time. But I agree, not every Diva needs to be in the ring on tv, that's for damn sure. In the latest Observer Meltzer had a blurb about one of their latest hires, and how she has a strong athletic background as well as modeling experience, and that's what they are looking for now. Which makes sense in theory, but you can only have so many women like that on the roster, and you can't just throw them on all on tv and ask them to learn on the job. And they should at least have a concept of what wrestling is and what it takes to make it. That girl on Tough Enough who said her favorite match was Alicia Fox vs. someone......lol The whole "casting call for potential WWE divas" system is fucked, and it leads to someone like Eva Marie hired because she wants to be famous and this is the only way she's getting on tv Take Trish Stratus for example. Hired because she was a bombshell fashion model, with an athletic background, but she was also a wrestling fan, and had a good head on her shoulders. And they didn't throw her in the ring on tv her first month on the job. It was several years before she was expected to wrestle tv matches, and when it came time to do that she was actually decent, and got better and better with experience. WWE now chews up and spits out girls so fast they don't even have a chance to get good. An Eva Marie who appears to be dangerously uncoordinated and oblivious in the ring will likely never get better...but some girls that have potential never get a chance to improve And what the womens division really misses right now is an Ivory, or a Victoria, someone who can teach girls how to work while in the ring with them. Nattie is in that role right now and I don't think she's really the best person for the job. I don't understand why they wouldn't take someone like Cheerleader Melissa or Alison Danger and pay them good money to be in that role. It's not like they're unattractive to the average person

Exactly. Anarchistxx would cut half the roster and replace them with.....who exactly? And isn't he someone who admits to not watching or liking the product? So forgive me if your opinions don't hold much weight with me. If you think almost the entire undercard is deadweight odds are WWE isn't for you, because they'll just fill the same slots with different people, rinse wash repeat Some of these names are just silly: Heath Slater is really entertaining and a great bumper and job guy. He's a perfect lower midcard stooge heel. 3MB is a fun act too. Jinder has improved in the ring (I used to think absolutely nothing of him but he's become a perfectly acceptable tag guy who's still got youth on his side) and it's been a good role for Drew Santino? Khali? Tons of Funk? Hornswoggle? These guys aren't "deadwood". They're over with kids midcard comedy acts who serve a purpose on the roster. Sandow has a lot of potential in ring and as a character and he isn't close to being stale or buried yet. He's coming off the best match of his career with Cena and you'd cut him? Swagger? Like others have said has found a niche with The Real Americans. He might be in trouble when they break Cesaro off, but you can at least have him put Cesaro over before you toss him aside. I also think he's a really good tag guy, so you can always find another partner for him (a developmental callup perhaps) Fandango? Over midcard heel act and hasn't even been on tv a year yet. Nowhere close to stale. Kane has had one of the most entertaining 12-16 months of his career, first in Hell No and now with his corporate character The three stalest guys to me who'd be my first cuts: Kofi R-Truth Miz All these guys have been on TV forever at this point, constantly and in basically the same exact roles, and they need breaks. They're never going to move up and will probably never move too far down. Maybe they could come back and be fresh down the road, but right now it's time to give all of them a breather. After that it's guys like JTG and Curt Hawkins who are just hanging around and not even used on tv, Sin Cara who's a failed experiment, and Zeke who aside from being a big, tough looking guy never showed me anything in the way of charisma or in ring. I think the Divas need an overhaul as well. Layla seems to do a lot of promotional work and goes on all the foreign/military trips so doubt she'd get cut. I like her too, but her best days as a performer seem to be behind her. Fox and Aksana don't bring much aside from being attractive. I'm already tired of the Bellas again but obviously they won't be going anywhere. Natalya could use a break. AJ, Kaitlyn and Summer are all good and still fresh, and they have some girls with potential in NXT like Paige and Charlotte (Ashley Flair). I'd like to see them use a few girls who are more substance than style as well, but I know that's unlikely to happen.

Bryan got MORE over after being jobbed out in 11 seconds at WM. Sheamus, the guy who destroyed him, isn't close to being that over, as hard as he's pushed. They put Bryan into essentially a comedy team with Kane, and he came out of it as a guy who beats John Cena at SummerSlam. If he's not bulletproof yet he's pretty damn close to it I remember after he won MITB and they weren't doing anything with him, and had him on a losing streak (which is the worst booking trope they have right now, but I digress) and everyone was thinking he would just fade into oblivion. Didn't happen.

I think you can basically put Punk/Bryan over them, while making Harper/Rowan look credible and dangerous, but Wyatt ends up being the difference maker I'm interested to see where they go with it, but it seems fairly easy to have them all looking strong in the end. Punk and Bryan are basically bulletproof at this point. The Jericho comparison is fairly spot on. Jericho can lose all the time, he can be booked like shit, and it doesn't really matter, because he has a connection with the audience that most guys can't dream of

Bo Jackson was a HUGE star back in the day. Nike marketing had a lot to do with that, but he was 1A after Jordan. He might be a historical footnote now, but they took the idea of a "2 sport athlete" and ran with it. Nike could make stars out of almost anyone in the 80's. Bo wasn't a great baseball player or anything, but he had those moments where he'd make a highlight reel catch or jack a homerun, and nobody thought about his OPS+ or anything like that. As big of a star as he was though, for those few years, people don't remember him like they do a Hulk Hogan. He's more of a "oh yeah, I remember him. What if?" type that younger people or people who weren't paying attention at the time would have no clue about

I have conflicted opinions on Chris Hero. I remember him being super popular on the internet back in like 02-04 and I just never saw it. His matches seemed self-indulgent and masturbatory to me, and I never bought into them. Lots of "mat wrestling" and strikes for the sake of strikes, it all just seemed really fake. I give him credit though, I thought he improved a lot over the years. He got in better shape, and he got rid of that hideous costume he was wearing that right off the bat made him look like a joke. Can't say I've ever been a huge fan of his, but I think in 2013 if he'd gotten onto WWE tv he'd be a good addition to their roster. I don't know why he got cut, but if you believe the dirt they weren't high on his look and attitude? Which begs the point why would they push him on NXT so hard and give him showcase matches like they did, but a lot of what WWE does doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Maybe there's more to the story, maybe he asked for his release or something, but on it's face it doesn't make sense to me. Like I said, not a huge fan, but he's clearly someone they could have made money with. As far as Punk and Bryan go, I like the spot they're in right now. They're going to elevate the hell out of the Wyatts. You can be in way worse spots than they are, ask Dolph Ziggler. So the Bryan main event push didn't play out the way people wanted, oh well, the idea that he's being "buried" is nuts. The guy beat Orton at every turn, and murdered HBK live on RAW. So it hasn't been perfect booking, but at the end of the day they clearly are pushing the shit out of him.

I feel like Dave is just arguing against himself at this point I'd put Sabu in the hall of fame, take him for example. Super over in the 90's, iconic, all that. Not everyone is a fan of his work style, but you can't argue that he got over and popped crowds. He entertained. Revisionism might say that he exemplified that culture of "garbage wrestling", but according to Dave, "you weren't there so you can't understand" I was there. And I understand. And that's why he belongs in the WON HOF. Way ahead of some bs like Tanahashi getting voted in in 2013, which is laughable

I guess, but he was a star on the back of ECW and the Raven character. WCW didn't make him a star. He was a star the moment he showed up. I took the thread topic to be people who didn't do anything in WWF and WCW made stars out of. And this thread is proving that WCW completely failed at ever doing that.

Do people actually cite the Benoit murders as a reason for a change in the age criteria? That's one of the last places I'd think of going when arguing to change the standards.

I don't see the signs of desperation til 96. 95 was a shit year for both companies, but WWF was doing much better on houses and PPV. I think once Nitro started up and WCW gradually made gains Vince started to feel the squeeze. Bringing back Warrior again and signing Marc Mero to the first guaranteed contract after losing Hall and Nash were the big signs. Then he throws a 10 year guaranteed contract at Mark Henry, and starts signing up his own guys (Shawn, Bret) to big money deals. This was all stuff he did in direct response to what Bischoff was doing. In 95 he wasn't reacting to WCW, he was just going with his tried and true (and totally out of date) formula.