cm funk

I don't think there's anything wrong with looking at spoilers/results and purely analyzing the booking. Having opinions like, "that guy shouldn't lose a match to that guy right now" or "that angle looks like it sucks, why would they do that" or even "I don't like Orton standing over Bryan being the end of seven straight shows!" I generally get a pretty good idea of if I want to watch a show or not from spoilers, and my initial impressions on the booking generally tend to stay the same. I know that's what this thread stems from, Johnny Sorrow's one man crusade to defend WWE over at DVDVR. I wish everyone would just stop sniping and calling out people for having opinions about things, it made this week's RAW thread over there practically unreadable. The guy who doesn't watch the show (or WWE at all for that matter) and still comments on it as if he did, he deserves to get called out. The guy who goes, "THAT'S IT! I'M DONE! I'VE WATCHED FOR 13 YEARS BUT THIS IS THE LAST STRAW!" needs to seriously get called out. But a lot of people were getting called out for simply having opinions against WWE booking, or lack of faith in WWE booking. Johnny Sorrow, hate to call you out, but you were just as bad and annoying as anyone in that thread. I also saw a comment Johnny made where he said commentary, production, stuff added post that wasn't in the spoilers adds to show, and you don't get the actual experience of a show without watching it. Which is absolutely true. But that stuff doesn't change the bare bones booking. It can enhance it, but that's all the gaga stuff that we know WWE is good at. But I'd also add that WWE commentary rarely adds anything of great value to a show in my opinion. Rarely does it raise a match from bad to good or good to great. It's mostly just background noise to me, though the different teams do have their moments. I've also been a diehard WWE watcher for a long time, so the production and all that, I already know it's going to be well done and add to the show, but it's rarely going to surprise me.

Any particular reason the Flair thread was locked? Flair creates enough news/controversy that a catch-all thread seemed appropriate

They've had some big hits. Monk was really popular (especially with women) and is now in syndication. It's actually the most watched drama in cable history and won a lot of Emmys. Burn Notice is popular, good ratings and is in syndication. Psych is in syndication. Those shows are all lighthearted and comedic though. They're after more of a network type, PG-PG13, broad audience than channels like FX and AMC which cater to a more mature and I think male audience.

There's been people thinking Bryan was getting buried from the moment HHH pedigreed him and Orton cashed in. WWE seriously can't win with some people I thought the angle tonight was utter shit and bad enough to make me start having doubts about their ability to deliver on this whole story.....but the big picture stuff is still fine, and the idea that Bryan is being buried is ridiculous. They have a lot of people involved in this angle and they're doing a balancing act trying to get a lot of different stuff over. They misfired on one segment, it happens. An important segment, but still just one segment. On RAW next week Bryan will still be super over, and Big Show will have lots of heat, nothing unfixably bad happened. If missteps start happening on a regular basis, or Bryan starts to be less over, then I'll start to worry about the creative direction. But this overarching angle has barely just started, and it isn't just about Bryan, which some people don't seem to understand. They're still trying to get fans to break their pavlovian habit of cheering HHH and Orton....they both still get huge face pops despite being complete heels, and despite the crowd loving the guy they're fucking with

Heyman was massively fucked over during the Watts era. He'd been signed to a pretty lucrative contract, more than a lot of the wrestlers were making, and when Watts came in he was basically looking for any angle possible to break what he thought were bad contracts. He tried to talk Heyman into signing for less money, and Heyman was like, "fuck you, this is a guaranteed contract" and then Watts started burying him. Broke up the Dangerous Alliance, took him off TV for a while, took him off of commentary. Eventually WCW claimed he had lied on his expense reports as a way to break their deal.....Heyman swears up and down he didn't ever do that and it was just WCW railroading him.....I think it's plausible that Heyman did that.....but they were totally just railroading him and looking for any excuse to make him go away. He sued them after that and IIRC got a decent settlement, probably whatever was left on his guaranteed contract

Yeah, that was really strange. I assume Steph is scripting her own promos/winging it, but even so, that was just so completely not true that anyone who knows the slightest thing would pick up on it. It was probably just a mental slip up in the moment, but it's a little bothersome that the head of creative and an on screen talent with her experience would make a mistake like that She had a party girl rep back in the day, maybe the 90's are just a total blur to her Also, that closing angle on the show hit every wrong note possible, made both Bryan and Show look like crap, made the rest of the roster look like crap, and did nothing for the heel faction. I got what they were going for....but man did it not play out on screen the way they were envisioning it. Show had a pretty hot crowd for most of the night too, and that angle just killed them. I'd love to be privy to the backstage fallout from all that, Vince was probably losing his mind

I think Dave's choice would be between Tanahashi and Okada as he seems really high on both of them and on NJPW.....his opinion might sway the vote in that direction. I'd vote for Daniel Bryan....and there's a good chance he'll win. I think he definitely takes "most outstanding" NJPW will win for best promotion Bryan should win best babyface Most hated will probably be someone like Miz, lol Best show will be interesting because a lot of people love NXT and Main Event, and Saturday Morning Slam was great.....but RAW will probably win like it does most years "Most Disgusting Promotional Tactic" is always one of the most interesting. I can't recall any angle I saw this year that disgusted me.

Kim was not hotter than Stacy or Torrie.....that's crazy talk

Davey, from what I've seen, seems like a guy who'd be better "filtered through the WWE system" if he could handle the lifestyle and politics involved. He probably couldn't handle it based on some of the weird stories about him....the guy seems psychotic.....but by the same token maybe he needs the type of structure the WWE offers and would adapt like a champ I'd like to see him go to WWE just to avoid the bi-annual "Davey Richards is totally retiring to be a firefighter!" story

I would really like to see that match.....and I'm amazed that WWE would give Lawler the ok for it

Thanks for the opinions on Cutie. From what I've seen she was a good underdog babyface type, and like ohtani's jacket said, a hard worker. I can appreciate obvious hard work to be good in the ring as much as I can great athletic or technical prowess. From the Joshi I've watched she was one of my favorites and someone who stuck out to me for some of the little things she did, though I knew she wouldn't be considered one of the better workers when I asked the question.

Only if I get to see Waltman v Ricky Morton

Ninotchka looks like a cross between Debbie Harry and Wendy O Williams

dp

The show that Anderson & Eaton worked was called "When World Collide" and it happened like 6 months before the WCW promoted AAA When Worlds Collide show, and like Bix said Heyman threatening litigation led to Pillman coming in and working a show (and I think he initially tried to get Flair, then it was Austin who got hurt before the show, and they ended up with Pillman), so that story is suspect. Heyman was tight with Sullivan and Sullivan had just started booking WCW around the time they got Anderson & Eaton for a show, and IIRC Funk was already splitting time at that point, it's possible it was some kind of working relationship deal that Heyman and Styles kayfabed for the sake of the rebel ECW gimmick. Sullivan on his shoots talks about how when he was booking he was in regular contact with Heyman, and would call him up to give him advance warning when it looked like WCW was going to sign one of his guys, and how Woman going there was basically something he had brokered with Paul because WCW wasn't using her at the time. Heyman also kayfabed his dealings with Vince for years, and Cornette was sort of in the same boat where he was dealing with both promotions at the same time.

I've never been a Joshi watcher so I can't fairly rate any of them. I like what I've seen of it (some of the high end rated stuff and stuff from the biggest names, and the girls who came over and worked the states of course), but I was never a tape buyer of it and mostly just read about it until it became easy to find stuff via the internet. Where does Cutie Suzuki rank? Best from North America is a much more interesting question. There had to be some really good workers in the 60's-70's who don't get their due due to lack of footage, lack of people caring about womens wrestling as anything but a novelty etc. Probably in the modern era the best female workers are people like Sara Del Ray, McChif, Allison Danger who aren't considered attractive enough to get a WWE/TNA break. Awesome Kong is great, obviously. Hamada's daughter was really good IMO....who are some of the other good Mexican women? I've seen names like Sexy Star and Faby Apache touted, but never seen any of their matches. I haven't seen much GLOW, who would be considered the best worker from that promotion? best woman from the WWE is a totally different question. It might be AJ Lee. I liked Michelle McCool a lot, thought she was really underrated. Beth Phoenix was really good. Trish was good. Mickie James was good. Gail Kim is good. Lita was ok overall, but she was sloppy as hell a lot of the time. Melina was pretty solid, not as solid as Bret Hart thought, but for a WWE diva she was solid with some cool spots.

Seriously. Maria was a hard worker, and willing to try stuff, but she never was better than passable. Her trashing the Bellas for example is hilarious, because she was never better than a Bella level worker, and probably not even that good. AJ, Nattie, Layla and Kaitlyn are all better workers than Maria ever was. Kelly Kelly and Candice were better workers than Maria. Eve was miles and miles better than Maria. etc. etc. etc. She wasn't the worst, but she wasn't very good. That "guys today don't know how to work" talking point will never go away though. You get the same thing from old timers in every sport. The guys from today who "don't know how to work" will say the same thing about the next generation of workers

Really? Sounds believable enough....don't know that I ever heard that theory before. Weird. FWIW I thought those lawsuits were ridiculous. Was there racism and discrimination in wrestling? Sure. And stereotypes, not just racial but every sort of stereotype out there, has almost always been a staple of wrestling. But if you know anything about wrestling you knew that the people suing were marginal talents who were lucky to have their jobs. I was surprised WCW settled on those lawsuits, but once it was AOL/Time Warner and WCW had already been sold I guess they just wanted it to go away.

The WWE deal seems to be if they like you and you're in the fold, they'll help you out. It seems totally discretionary though, and nobody has anything guaranteed or in writing. They do have that rehab offer out on the table, and they've paid for a lot of guys who need that sort of help, probably more than we even know. They've paid or helped out for some surgeries for various guys. Seems like the closest thing they have to a pension plan is the legends deal, and if you're signed to that there's a better chance they'll shell out if you're desperate, but again, there is nothing like that guaranteed in a legends contract....it's simply royalty money, ownership of your name, and a chance for stuff like collectable figures, video games, spots on DVDs, retro shirts, autograph signings, publicity work etc. etc. It's not a bad deal for a lot of guys, but c'mon

Yeah, FXX might be a good fit. I'm not really sure what the deal is with that channel. They moved The League and Always Sunny to it, which are two of the most popular FX shows and those shows are definitely "taking one for the team" because it's going to hurt their ratings....and if that's the demo they're after with the channel RAW might be a good fit (I for example, an early 30's WWE fan, love those shows). But I haven't seen any publicity for the channel, no idea what kind of coverage it will have with the various cable providers, and those are like literally the only 2 shows on the channel (on the website they advertise those 2 and 2 new shows)......no idea how they're going to fill all the rest of the hours. I assume syndi repeats and repeats of stuff FOX owns like Married With Children and stuff like that.....but really, no clue.

what were the political reasons for Booker getting his push? I always took it as them simply taking the opportunity to elevate a fresh face. Whatever you think of Booker as a worker, the guy was over with WCW crowds. Steiner was eventually getting the big push, Goldberg didn't need the title....Jarrett was a weak champion....people like Nash, DDP, Sid etc. sure as hell didn't need it....I thought Booker was a good choice. I'm probably a bigger Booker fan than most, going back to the GWF Ebony Express days....and I haven't watched any of this stuff since it first aired.....but I remember thinking Booker was a pretty good champion. He carried himself well, crowds liked him, and he would have decent-good matches. He became a better singles worker with time and really came into his own as a heel later in his WWE run, but he was perfectly acceptable in the ring 2000-2001 IIRC. He had that stinker with Stasiak which was proof that Booker was not the guy to ask to carry someone in a lengthy match, and he gets equal blame with Bagwell for that awful "WCW" match on RAW....but in there with a good worker, like Jarrett or Steiner, he'd have fine matches. I really liked the Booker-Steiner series....but I was also a huge fan of both of them and enjoyed seeing them in main events.

This. I don't see Vince taking his flagship show off of basic cable. FS1 is clearly making moves to compete with ESPN, and eventually will be a prestigious channel, but they aren't there right now. Their launch was kind of rough with the cable companies, and UFC is taking a hit by being part of it. It will balance out for UFC because FOX is invested in them, but yeah. I guess if they threw enough money at WWE, RAW would definitely help their numbers and speed up the process, but I don't think Vince is inclined to go in that direction. I think he stays on USA, and I think the way the landscape is now he probably gets an increase on the value of the property, but he'd leave money on the table to stay on basic tv. It's interesting that the RAW and SD contracts are both coming up at the same time. They've been packaged together with NBC/Universal (along with WWECW/NXT) but WWE has shown a willingness to go and put shows on tv with competing companies lately. They have way too much product on tv right now IMO (and I think UFC has created the same problem for themselves), and they still have the WWE network in mind......whatever happens will say a lot about where the company is right now

Austin is just being himself on his podcast, more or less. I love Maron, but at his core he's a hyper neurotic over thinker, who obsesses over everything and owns multiple cats. Austin is a good ol' boy who just wants to shoot the shit with his pals and drink some beer and drive his truck and hang out with his dog. I like listening to both of them, and if either one veered in the other direction I'd think it was shit

lol, that's awful they used to do some BFG matches on house shows and then publicize the results on their website and on tv. I know they're not running as many live events now, and tbh I haven't followed the TNA product or BFG series much, have they done any of that this year?

The guys Austin has on the show are either friends of his or guys he's a fan of, and the conversations are always just two guys shooting the shit. I loved the shows with Jay Mohr and Adam Corolla for example, they were a lot of fun, and if Austin had gotten serious with the interviews they would have not been as good. Expecting deep analysis and probing confrontational questions from that format is all wrong. That may occur on occasion, but that isn't the point. I like how he keeps it fun and lighthearted, and I think it brings the best out of his guests. Who cares if his guests BS, IT'S PRO-WRESTLING!!!