jdw

This thread had 270 pages before you joined the site, and that's not counting the prior thread that went on for quite some pages before that famous Resident Evil discussion got it locked. The posters in this thread have included both of the owners of the site, and all of the mods. We've had Dave supporters in the thread(s), people like to smack Dave around, and people who are in the middle. The current tangent about Dave's view on the n-bomb in wrestling was started by one of the owners. The thread go back close to 8 years, and touch on a wide variety of issues. Some of silly, some of it minor, some of it making us bang our heads against the wall. Some of it has been quite interesting, with lots of interesting comments by posters coming in a variety of different directions. Frankly, it's not close to being as critical of Dave's work as it could be if people really wanted to pick him apart like we pick apart matches. So... On the whole, it's been a perfectly fine thread given 6000+ posts.

Sounds like a quote. Who used it, and perhaps we can ask that person.

Just eyeballing it, I don't see anything that aired on Original Sammy Classics that then didn't air in the G+ version. So if you get the G+ version of Classics, you'll have all the classics material. Of course there's a fair amount of TV that didn't air on either Classics. Hence our excitement of Dan tracking down original 1982 TV stuff to supplement it. His season sets are always great.

Which looking back at PM, is what I sent you a few days ago.

Dan from the other thread on the G+

I wasn't talking about Wrestling Fans knowing about it. Just that it was nationally out there as opposed to just something talked about in the sheets. The Village Voice isn't a "wrestling bubble" publication. It was at the time a nationally read publication. Major publication? No, it didn't have a massive circulation. Bigger than the WON? Yep. And it was read across the nation. This is just the same as the Penthouse article about the Von Erichs. It was a story that escaped beyond just being talked about by the people inside the business and out into wider world.

More evidence that they just didn't give a shit about chasing Snuka, rather than them not having a reasonable case.

The damning thing is that there's really not all that much new information that led to today's indictment (although that's not the way the DA spun it). The forensic information was there (although not public record). Snuka's rapidly changing story was known. If they didn't discover during their first investigation that Snuka had been arrested for attacking Nancy in a hotel room a few months earlier, then that would be shockingly bad police work. I don't know why you don't believe that this is just police work. The first time I heard about this story was probably 10 years or so ago and wasn't really all that surprised he didn't get arrested. This is kind of just how these type of cases work. The police don't really do as much investigating as people think. If there is a reason for them to stop looking into a case, they generally just move on to something else. The only reason people think that the cops are out here solving crimes is television. In the real world they kind of just arrest the first suspect, if they don't feel like they'll get a conviction they just kind of drop it and move on. That is why the vast majority of people in prison are there on petty drug crimes, it is easy to prove you caught someone with a bag of weed, but if there isn't a witness to a murder it is hard to prove someone killed someone. The cops get to act like they're fighting crime and the people get to pretend that they're safe, but in reality the vast majority of violent crimes don't lead to a conviction. That doesn't even take into consideration that a lot of crimes aren't even counted. This woman's death was never even officially ruled an accident or a homicide. As far as the law was concerned she died of natural causes. Jimmy Snuka most likely killed that woman, but since no one really bothered to investigate he was never charged with anything. They actually did investigate it. The presentment walks through the evidence that was there at the time. The inconsistencies from one day to the next, along with the number of different witnesses he made statements to, is pretty much what they're looking for if they want to chase the case. There was plenty to charge him with. Convict him? Quite possibly enough of a scare for him to perhaps cop a plea to involuntary manslaughter and a low end sentence rather than risk a murder rap. It's not a great case to defend. Snuka is a shitty witness who is accused of killing his mistress while his wife & kids are back home. You have all his statements others who have built in credibility to a certain degree (doctor / nurse / paramedic / cop). How do you counter that they're full of shit? Put Jimmy on the stand? He'd be a trainwreck. Offer up other witness on what Jimmy told them? Those would most be people in the wrestling business, which is another trainwreck. This was in the era before some jury folks felt the need to see everything on video tape to convict, or had watched loads of CSI and thought they were super geniuses. Then work the case a bit deeper, and you get Jimmy The Coke Head, and the prior violent act which. I don't recall of the Allentown Cops were aware at the time of his incident in Syracuse in January 1983 involving Nancy. If not and they dig deeper, then they get that as well and drag it in. My guess is that a decent lawyer representing looking at the case at the time with charges filed and seeing just how shitty of a witness Jimmy is would work to get a plea. * * * * * My "brutal" comment earlier was less aimed at what Jimmy did (which has been largely known nationally for 20+ years), but in how much the cops had to work with right from the start. This wasn't a hard one compared to a stone cold whodunit that they would work knowing there was little chance of cracking it.

Brutal.

Thanks!

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/lehigh-county/index.ssf/2015/09/jimmy_superfly_snuka_murder_ca.html Bix or Keith: if you get your hands on the presentment, or find a link to it, please share. That would be an interesting read.

This all makes my head hurt. Dave has always had odd blinders on.

Vince didn't do the murder, so he's not benefiting from the tampering. It would be Snuka, and the clock didn't run out on him. He's up under #1. Though I don't know how they got him for involuntary manslaughter as it's voluntary manslaughter that is specifically set out as having no statue of limitations. That would seem to indicate involuntary manslaughter has a lesser statute. I've seen it listed in several places as 2 years, though seem to be overlooking it in the code.

It doesn't appear that they were looking at anything beyond Snuka. Looking at the statute of limitations in PA: http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/42/00.055..HTM Snuka got charged with 3rd degree murder and involuntary manslaughter, so the no limitations wouldn't apply. Given it's a 30 year old case, the statue would have run ages ago. Also, it appears that tampering with evidence is a misdemeanor: http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/consCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&ttl=18&div=0&chpt=49 You'd have to sift through that to ponder all the things the WWF/Vince may have done and maybe they're a felony in there. But the clock would have run.

Yeah, and I pitched "shoot style" long ago and instead use "UWF-style". We have shoot style now: UFC and other MMA promotions.

Actually, the "Southern Tag" name might be a good peeve. Does anyone really think the style was invented in the South? Perfected in the South? Or... anything in the South, other than just worked like it was elsewhere? Here are the Millers and Kagaroos going right into FIP and Southern Style by the 3:00 of the clip, with double teams, distractions of the rough, standard work by the "guy on the apron", falls tag attempts, and finally the hot tag. The AWA had tag matches back to the beginning. Think they weren't working "Southern Tag" matches? We could probably read clippings of early tag matches once the standard form of working them got down pat and see the makings of a Southern Tag match right there from the start.

Steve is part of the tOA crowd. He explained that Dick at some point told Lane and/or London to introduce him as the Sensational Destroyer. Then after a while told them to add Intelligent. Or the other way around. Dick was a smart heel.

We'll, if you've come this far, it might be worth doing the Jumbo & Tenryu vs Choshu & Yatsu series of matches from 11/85 - 2/87: Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu vs Riki Choshu & Yoshiaki Yatsu (11/30/85) Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Riki Choshu & Yoshiaki Yatsu (01/28/86) Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Riki Choshu & Yoshiaki Yatsu (02/05/86) Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Riki Choshu & Yoshiaki Yatsu (03/04/86) Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Riki Choshu & Yoshiaki Yatsu (12/06/86) Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Riki Choshu & Yoshiaki Yatsu (01/24/87) Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Riki Choshu & Yoshiaki Yatsu (02/05/87) All are titles matches, with the exception of their 11/85 & 12/86 which are Tag League matches. They might not all be available online... or easily online. I don't know how much of it Ditch put up, either... probably a chunk of it. But they're all in circulation now. The Jumbo-Tenryu series is probably played out in terms of discussions, so I won't list those singles matches.

Thought that might have been the meaning, but wanted to check. What people are tossing out are long matches in you're 25+ minute concept, though I've seen you mention other matches as being long that go right around 20. I'm looking at Loss' list of his best matches in 1996. 8 of the Top 50 are All Japan tags. 6 of the 8 were 25+ minutes, while the other two were right at 20 minutes. Granted they're not everyone's cup of tea.

That's a big-time Kawada carry job. Kobashi might as well had been lead around by the nose in the match. Plus, that finish "killed the territory" after Kawada's huge win a month earlier.No way was that a carry job. Kawada was awesome on offense, sure, but Kobashi gave him the perfect underdog foil to work with. In particular, what really puts the much over the top for me is how Kobashi gives the best glassy eyed concussion selling I've ever seen for Kawada's kicks throughout the match. Not really sure we could call Kobashi an underdog at this point. They were 1-1-2 since Kobashi won the Triple Crown for the first time, and Kobashi's win came in their last singles match in an oddly quick manner. People reading the booking tea leaves *raises hands* didn't think Kawada was dropping the belt. But from the booking of the promotion, they had already moved Kobashi up to being Kawada's peer, with Taue in roughly the same ballpark though more forgotten than the other two. That's one of the problems with Kobashi's work in 1997 and 1998: he was still working like it was 1993 and he was an underdog, even "crying" when Jun kicked out of the moonsault.

Which style?

I don't disagree with the first half of that sentence. I just don't think I've seen Kobashi in a "great" match since January 1997. I did once upon a time, but again that match didn't hold up well for me the last time I watched. Considering I'm rather invested for 17 years pimping the shit out of that match more than anyone, you probably should take it as me telling folks the truth on what I think of it rather than blowing smoke up folks asses. I'd love to keep pimping it, just as I love to keep pimping Sammy-Ohtani. But I can't. The closest that I've found Kobashi coming to a great match since 1/97 was against Suzuki. It was 100% due to the wacky bullshit that Suzuki brought to the table to force Kobashi out of his NOAHism, and I was digging the shit out of it. Then it came time for Kobashi to get all NOAHtastic, and the match sunk quickly out of the great range.

I wasn't impressed by Kobashi when watching the stuff in 1998 as a whole. Excess probably is a word I used. I'm about 100% certain that I used the word "bored" first with the 10/98 match. To be honest, I wasn't totally in love with him in 1996. I thought Misawa ran circles around him, Kawada when have a chance did as well, Taue was about ten times more interesting to watch in 1996, and Jun's growth was as well. I didn't say he sucked. But he was hitting me in the same exact way that Toyota did. :/