Marty

That's the one. Great, great angle. Leading up to it, of course, was the Alliance angle where Austin gathered everyone for vote as to who should team with him in the main event. It was of course a rigged vote by Austin to get Booker T on his team, and more specifically, as a sort of punishment to RVD. Built some nice sympathy face heat for RVD too. That led of course to Austin/Booker vs. Angle/Taker that finished with RVD frog splashing Angle almost via the full length of the ring. We sat in the highest deck for that show, and it was quite a visual seeing RVD go from one side of the ring to the other. It only helped his cause to be pushed further too.

RVD-Rock had two matches. One was in September when Steph did a run-in. That one's on the Rock DVD. The other was on October 15 here in Ottawa, where Jericho did commentary. I was of course at the latter show and you have no idea how over RVD was at the time until you're there with the live crowd.

...and I was looking forward to a good weekend until I read all of that. You're absolutely right, of course, and your style of long-term booking is unfortunately something I don't think we'll see close to in the WWE. Rather than give guys who NEED a rub a flash-in-the-pan push to the main event, you're giving them a full-fledged push and giving the guys next in line that type of push that a Jericho wound up receiving. That's a good thing, of course, because your Edges and Christians at the time are good, but not quite ready for the main event, but this sort of thing preps 'em good for the future. Very well-written, Loss.

I think the Dusty Finish to Jericho-HHH wasn't necessarily bad, but not following up on it was. Jericho never really got a rematch (unless I'm forgetting something), and spent the next few months until July spinning his wheels in the midcard. The stuff with Benoit was fine, but the reaction for Jericho getting pushed was THERE and they never bothered responding to it after the false title win. There was only one other time where Jericho was the focus on the show (the night he was booked in three matches) but it was only because Rock had the night off to work on The Mummy Returns, IIRC.

Bret Hart vs. Yokozuna - WrestleMania IX: You have two wrestlers, one being someone who is built as your future main event face, and the other being a perfectly capable heel, and what happens? The 1980s return and Hulk Hogan stands tall in the end, before shitting on the promotion and taking a couple months off to make a movie and refusing to put over that new face before leaving on his way out for good. Bad, bad, bad on so many levels.

In theory, that may be true. This year's class is almost a complete who's who of 1980's WWF. The problem is finding matches for everyone. If they do that, the disks turn out to be a Hulk Still Rules Part 2 type of DVD set.

Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho - WrestleMania XIX: Been mentioned a million times, but Jericho really, really, REALLY should've gone over here. Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton - SummerSlam 2004: I think Benoit should've gone over and kept the title. There was no supreme backlash against Benoit being champ and no need to take the title off of him. It's REALLY debatable whether or not Orton was really over (I don't think he was), and the trigger-happy face turn buried his character dead. He wound up being one of the most forgettable champions in recent memory.

I think the reason for no Hall Of Fame DVD this year is a lack of sales last year. From what I remember, it was nowhere near as good a seller as others. I doubt they'll do a Best Of WCW DVD. That would require Vince to put them over in some way, and unlike ECW, he's viewed WCW as competition, and it's that reason why he'll never give them the benefit of the doubt, let alone a multi-disk set.

That's correct (regarding your last point). I'm not sure of the exact details, but it's legal for them to use the WWF initials in the UK. I was talking with Adam Ryland (my old EWR boss and current TEW boss) about that as he owns a few of those discs, and he said any mention of "WWF" by wrestlers, announcers, etc. is not censored out. Compare that with the Andre The Giant DVD, where Lord Alfred Hayes says, "WW_". Regarding the 80s disc, I should say that I'll get it if, of course, the stuff looks good. I'd really like it if it weren't some Coliseum Videos thrown together. The one thing I hated about the Andre disc was how it was a DVD copy of the original tape. I realize it was cheap, and sold for cheap, but still. With the material they have, the ability for them to produce some amazing comps is endless, as we've already seen. Their production values for TV and to a good extent, PPV, may be behind the times, but their DVD production is top-notch. They shouldn't waste too much of their time making copies of old stuff.

I'll be getting the first two sets mentioned, and maybe the WrestleMania one, depending how I feel about it when I watch it.

You're probably right on Jericho-Michaels. I haven't seen it since it was live, and I think a big reason for me liking it was just about everything else going on. Jericho-Michaels was a silver lining. Sadly, most of what I remember in 2003 was HHH vs. Kevin Nash. That doesn't help things. Goddammit, though, there's gotta be a Goldust match I'm forgetting, though.

The first ones that come to mind: - Jericho vs. Michaels (the rematch in the summer) - Booker T vs. Henry (as we discussed in another thread) - RVD vs. Christian - ladder match (not great, but there were some *sweet* sensical bumps taken by both men.

In fact, you could say the guy whose interference helped the most (Rhyno) worked out well in the long term, because he wound up having a decent 2001. Remember the decent hardcore match at Backlash with Raven? The good work over the summer? His matches where he would work a bodyscissors spot to eventually set up the Gore? Him carrying Jericho at SummerSlam? I don't know if it was their intention to push Rhyno the way they did, but it made his interference at TLC2 look good on many levels. The guy was having a fine year before he became the latest victim of the Neck Injury Crisis.

Which one, though? The one where Booker used the sleeperhold correctly, or the other one where he snuck behind Henry, and hushed the crowd successfully?

I have no VCR, believe it or not, but you're making me wanna get up at 3:30 in the morning tomorrow. A replay of Raw is shown at that time, and I wanna see if that Jericho/Benjamin/Christian match is as good as you say it is.

WrestleMania XV - The less said, the better. WrestleMania 2000 - Blah show. Liked the Triple Threat Ladder match and the Triple Threat IC-Euro match. Everything else is not mentionable, aside from the Kat being stark naked in a backstage vignette. Test/Albert-Head Cheese may be one of the worst WrestleMania matches in history. WrestleMania X-7 - Still really like it, albeit not as much. The TLC II match is fun, but hasn't aged well, since there's been tons of stunt matches since then that are quite like it. Main event is GREAT up until the Vince run-in. Benoit-Angle was looking to be something incredibly different until Angle started huffing and puffing. I thought Jericho-Regal should've been given more time. Undertaker-HHH gets extremely dull once they hit the crowd. Still probably the best WrestleMania of them all. WrestleMania X8 - Blah show. I still like Rock-Hogan. I thought it was very smartly worked. HHH-Jericho is fine, but I get pissed watching it, especially since HHH sold the Walls like it was a massage machine. Compare that to XX, where he sold the Crossface like he was going to die. Flair-Undertaker is a guilty pleasure, although seeing Undertaker carry Flair just shows how Flair should've packed it in a long time ago. Rest of the card is crap, aside from Scott Hall's Stunner sell. WrestleMania XIX - Poorly booked show in retrospect. Mysterio, Jericho, and Booker all should've went over. Main event was doomed to die, as all the focus was on Hogan-Vince and Austin-Rock. When they had the Catfight Girls just mentioning those matches, Lesnar-Angle didn't have a chance to succeed heat-wise, which is a shame. I saw this show live at a bar, and 80% of the patrons left after Austin-Rock, which says it all right there. I really like Michaels-Jericho except for who went over, Lesnar-Angle is fine, but not great, and the last Austin-Rock match is a guilty pleasure of mine. Austin looked like shit, but Rock put on one of my favourite performances of his. Cool heels aren't necessarily a good thing, but Rock looked like he was having the time of his life around this time. Gave him an edge to his character again. WrestleMania XX - The two title matches were great, Jericho-Christian was okay, and the handicap tag was decent. Everything else was filler, except the opener, where Big Show did his best to get a good match out of useless John Cena. Watching the Canadians match, it's obvious now how much Christian has turned up his game this year. Thought Rock and Flair were funny, although it's a testiment to how much Flair's fallen to a comedy worker. The sight of Benoit and Guerrero standing tall is very satisfying, although we'd hit reality several months later when the HHH push got cranked into full gear again, and Vince's JBL lovefest was also drawn into a nice diagram for us.

WrestleMania VIII - Got back into the WWF well into this time (actually, probably around the Bret Hart IC win the year before). Really liked this show, especially the rise of Hart on the card, and Savage-Flair. WrestleMania IX - Hated this show, since I loved the Bret push. I have nothing else to add, though the outdoor setting was a nice visual; everything else was a bad visual. I will say, though, that the foolish theorist mark in me thought they pushed Bret as an answer to the Blue Jays' success in baseball. I thought weird things back in the day. WrestleMania X - Still love this show, since my favourite wrestler came out on top, and built up a credible challenger on the same show. Still like HBK-Ramon, but not as much. And I still remember Savage-Crush, since I really liked the storyline. Savage hog-tying Crush is still a visual that's stuck in my head. WrestleMania XI - I never cared for the Diesel push and this was an era where I kinda missed a lot in wrestling. Needless to say, never saw the show. WrestleMania XII - Was back into wrestling again. Sass is right; the ME is a practice with patience. It's not the type of match to be watching while lying on the couch. You'll fall asleep. Easily. You might wind up doing it sitting on the couch. I really liked Austin-Vega. I think I got back into things around this time mainly because of Steve Austin. Not for the Stone Cold appeal, but more for the "So that's where that guy I watched in WCW is now..." That happens when you go on and off of wrestling like I had in the 1990s. WrestleMania 13 - Austin. Bret. Awesome. Everything else? Pass. WrestleMania XIV - Haven't seen this show since 1998 and back then, I don't remember many matches being memorable. ME and Dumpster match were fun, and I remember liking Hunter-Owen until the finish. Rock's promo was fun too.

Trying not to repeat what others said... WrestleMania: I like the old-school darker look of it, with the MSG aura, but that's about it. Most of the matches were exhibition showcases, almost done in a way to introduce the world to who's who. Main event was fine, and Mr. T certainly wasn't the worst celebrity in history to wrestle. WrestleMania 2: Blah show. I liked the BB/DT tag, and the battle royale's a guilty pleasure. Nothing else of note. WrestleMania III: Main event and IC match are worth watching, and the Adonis-Piper blowoff was fun for me as a kid. Maybe I'm looking far too deep into it, but Hogan-Andre was about as good as it was going to be in the early going before they decided to take the match outside. Then it got embarrassing for both guys. Steamboat-Savage reminds me of Lesnar-Angle (at WM XIX): a feud of hatred (although the latter is less so), with the resulting match making zero sense in the context of the buildup. Still good for historical reasons, I guess. WrestleMania IV: I haven't seen this show since watching it at a friend's birthday party in October 1988. We were all bored of it back then too. WrestleMania V: Most of the card is filler, filler, filler, but I still really like Hogan-Savage. I like Savage more, always have, but even the Main Event angle of him destroying Hogan had me freaking out at him at the time. Such a great, great worker he was. One of Savage's finest performances, as well as Hogan's. WrestleMania VI: Hogan-Warrior is good. The rest, blah. WrestleMania VII: Never saw the show. I hated the WWF at the time for the Iraqi angle and took a break from it. A local TV station here in Ottawa showed WCW Worldwide and that was all the wrestling I was watching at the time. I will correct Sass though: The Rockers faced Haku/Barbarian, not the Twin Towers.

That was the only part of the show I caught last night. I find JR's calling of Austin being an "unpredictable" rattlesnake to be extremely funny.

According to CRZ's Q'n'D report, HHH-Batista went around 21 minutes. Good write-up, Loss. The show sounds good enough for me to throw a look.

Some really interesting news, as NBC is part of the deal. Apparently, NBC will be broadcasting at least two yearly 90-minute late-night Saturday specials once the deal is underway. The return of Saturday Night's Main Event?

Ah.... I miss the days of 8:57 Eastern Time starts for Raw... (Yeah, I know, those aren't going to happen again)

* Rob Van Dam vs. Jerry Lynn - 5/16/1999 (ECW Hardcore Heaven): I've seen it only a couple of times, but liked what I saw, compared with RVD's other stuff. I think this is the best match of their series, although I may have to rewatch the Living Dangerously match to be sure. Very fun though. * Steve Austin vs. Owen Hart - 8/3/1997 (WWF SummerSlam): Excellent, excellent match which showed what these two could've done in a main event feud had a million things related to the latter stages of this match not happened. It's a shame, too, because I thought Bret Hart was well in the downswing of his career and Owen had stepped up to become the best wrestler in the Hart Foundation stable, as well as one of the best Canadian ones too. Thinking about that makes me feel even more sadder over the ending of the match, because these two could GO in the summer of 1997. *Ric Flair vs. Harley Race - 11/24/1983 (NWA Starrcade): I have to echo the same sentiments as others. The build-up is great, the heat is great, the setting is superb, but God damn, this match can sometimes be an insomnia cure. Race was very slow in this match, and was definitely in the twilight of his career. Kiniski's refereeing certainly doesn't help. It isn't horrible, and certainly has historic value, but it's not something I call "great". * Razor Ramon vs. Shawn Michaels - 3/20/1994 (WWF WrestleMania X): Loved the match live and naturally, my liking has shrunk quite a bit, as it's obvious Michaels wrestled a ladder that night, with Ramon making a cameo appearance. I keep hearing that SummerSlam 1995 was far better and I need to check that out, as I've never seen it. Still fine and exciting, although it pisses me off when people call it "the first ever ladder match" or claim that Michaels is the innovator of it. * Mitsaharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada - 6/3/1994: Guess what? I've never seen this match. Loss, HTQ, or anyone else whom applies, sell me on this match, why I should or shouldn't get it, and for bonus points, let me know if it's on DVD somewhere.

* Rob Van Dam vs. Jerry Lynn - 5/16/1999 (ECW Hardcore Heaven) * Steve Austin vs. Owen Hart - 8/3/1997 (WWF SummerSlam) * Ric Flair vs. Harley Race - 11/24/1983 (NWA Starrcade) * Razor Ramon vs. Shawn Michaels - 3/20/1994 (WWF WrestleMania X) * Mitsaharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada - 6/3/1994

I'll be honest, it had me for a second. It sure was better than The Torch's stuff last year, like "Brutus Beefcake makes return to WWE" or some nonsense like that.