Dylan Waco

That's possible. Maybe even probable. But it's also guess work which isn't what HoF's are for

No one is saying that they didn't get massive reactions or weren't important parts of a hot supporting cast. But they were the supporting cast. Compare the NAO to a team like the High Flyers who most folks would reject with a laugh as HoF candidates. The High Flyers utterly annihilate and destroy the NAO as candidates and that's even if we totally exclude in ring performance an area where the Flyers would also have a massive advantage. If a team like the High Flyers that headlined major buildings around a territory loop on and off for almost ten years, setting record attendance figures in record setting feuds against a huge variety of opponents can't get a "maybe they ought to be considered" mention without audible laughter, no way in hell the NAO should even be on the radar

Hans Schmidt died yesterday. My guess is that will greatly enhance his chances of getting in this year. He almost got in last year (and I think the year before) and I had thought this year might be a tough go because of the emergence of Cena/Lesnar on the ballot. Now I think he'll likely get the RIP bump.

Jerry Blackwell can't get on the ballot and he meant far more to the AWA's hot run than NAO did to the Attitude Eras. Cowboy Bob Orton was a huge part of Roddy Piper's act and did well in Mid Atlantic and elsewhere as a complimentary figure in feuds that drew. I suppose he's an HoFer now as well...

The biggest reaction I ever heard someone get live was for Ice Train. New Age Outlaws and Rikishi/Too Cool were as over as any acts during the attitude era if you are looking purely at pops/reactions. I don't see any of those guys at HoFers and I don't put much stock in pops because they prove nothing. When assessing drawing power buyrates, ratings, gates/live attendance figures and merch sales (if you can find real numbers) are all valuable tools

Someone run a Gordy List on Sting.

I assume those are Farmer's numbers. I like Matt and think his research has worth, but I think it is limited in assessing who was and wasn't a draw. Having said that any other sort of research is pretty much going to get you the same result. in fact if you look at the SMW and WCW pages on history of the wwe.com for the respective years in question you'd be shocked to see that if you adjust for size of markets run and overall market penetration Bullet Bob Armstrong was a better face of the promotion babyface draw than Sting from 91-94

You don't put all the blame on Sting, you just don't reward him for a fantasy World that doesn't exist. Conversely with Buddy I think it's hard for people to grasp that Portland was a financially viable and successful territory because they weren't running huge buildings and weren't in a big market. If Don Owen was a shittier business man and didn't take advantage of the fact that he owned his own building and could make a huge profit off of everything there and instead averaged 5k a week at a bigger arena that wasn't a converted bowling alley...well if that was the case and Rose had been his ace for almost ten years during that run I think the consensus would at minimum be "Buddy is a very interesting candidate." Instead the consensus is "Buddy was a big fish in a small pond" or some variant thereof. Buddy is also a victim of Portland not being a heavily tape traded territory so while Buddy has a rep most of the people who pushed that rep only saw a fraction of his career and aren't going to go back and watch it now. I actually think the idea that a poor national draw is more important than a successful regional draw is the crux of the argument against guys like Buddy and I wish people would just state it outright. I suspect they don't because it is such an obviously shitty argument. I mean you can certainly argue against regional draws, but the idea that it meant more to be a money loser than a money maker strikes me as insane in every respect.

I think 91-93 is a perfectly acceptable time frame for Sting as ace. I'd have to go back and look for more specific concrete dates and I suspect it would go back some into 1990 and maybe a bit forward into 94 (though I'm not sure). But the point stands that he was not an effect ace at all. And that's really a generous way of putting it

If you play the "is he better than shittiest guy in the Hall" Sting gets in. So does Col. Debeers in my opinion, but sure under that metric Sting gets in. Sting is worthy of the ballot and worthy of discussion because of his stardom. But Sting really bombed as company ace and bombed badly. It's certainly arguable that Luger is a better candidate than Sting in a lot of ways and most scoff at the notion that Luger should even be considered. Sting was definitely over and had some quality matches against a variety of guys but that's something that could be said of a ton of guys.

Cena has been the face of a financially viable and successful wrestling promotion for eight years. The only time Sting was the face of a company it did shit business. I like Sting, but I think his biggest plus was the year he was in the rafters not wrestling and the payoff there was so horribly fucked it's not a major plus. Cena was a much more effective ace, headliner and draw and remains so. I also think Cena is a better worker

I will say this. I am not a fan of anyone getting in on work alone. But if someone like Benoit gets in and sets that precedent there is no real argument against Blue Panther.

Cool, so this mean each year will eventually get a podcast covering it? I'm not saying that is a guarantee, but it is very likely as both Dave and I were very pleased with this show. Also Jerry I think 19 and 20 almost go together as the show with Devon is interesting because you get to sort of see how a post-Monday Night War era fan looks at things, became interested in other things, evolved as a fan, etc. and then the follow up is a show with four long time fans talking about the height of the MNW era through the prism of the yearbook

Let me just say I think everyone should listen to this show. Goodhelmet and Loss were great guests, the discussion was really solid and I think it was an extremely interesting overview of the wrestling year. Both the shows we did this weekend were very different, but I also think they were two of the better shows we've done so far.

Put aside? Hell this is the first time Buddy has even been on the ballot and every voter I've seen comment on him has been very dismissive to the point where they won't even entertain the notion that he has a serious argument. I'll have more to say on this as we get closer, but I agree with everyone on Loss list.

You're insane

Just out of interest how much time do you actually spend watching footage? Just wonder how you manage it being married and all. Answer? Too much. It comes in waves though and I don't sleep a lot so often times the bulk of it is done when everyone else in the house is sleeping. It doesn't hurt that with certain things my daughter enjoys watching with me (current WWE, most Lucha, matches involving fat guys who take big bumps)

Ha!

Yeah this show was a lot of fun. Johnny's story about being at the Hansen title switch is classic

Devon is a footage watching beast. I've been known to be pretty crazed in that regard myself but he's at least as nutty in that regard as I am. Looks like we'll have another show up very, very soon on the yearbooks. AWA set show will follow hopefully next weekend, but certainly not much later than that under any circumstances as we are extremely close to finalizing a match list.

Look is more important than size. The problem with the modern product - maybe my biggest problem with it actually - is that organic/unique/interesting/different looks are incredibly rare.

http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkC...2658&cmd=tc Episode 19 of the Wrestling Culture podcast! This time Dave Musgrave has to deal with two Hales brothers, as we were joined by my younger brother Devon Hales. Devon talks about his fear of the Kiss Demon, our mother dancing to Rikishi's music, how a small Southern independent was his alternative to the WWE, his love for Don Owen, and the OCD that all true wrestling geeks share. It's a multi-generational look at the EVOLUTION OF A WRESTLING FAN with added bonus of Devon singing the Honkytonk Man's theme song.

Ha. The 79 MSG match is probably my favorite Hogan v. Dibiase match!

This. At some point, I'm willing to give Hogan all the credit he deserves, and he's been given plenty in the last 5 or 6 years, but one as to also accept the fact that WWF marketing machine + intangible IT made Hogan what he became. Not his great talent. He had more IT than anyone else before and after him (until The Rock came on scene). When you're over to that degree, the quality of the match doesn't matter at all. Hogan had "IT" before the WWF marketing machine had him. His reactions in the AWA were just as insane.

What did it have to do with then? The degree of his push? That's hard to fully accept, particularly watching the AWA footage where he was pushed very hard, but not in the Vince like fashion that would come - but was still getting the exact same (if not crazier) reactions. If someone wants to say that innate charisma isn't really a talent okay I guess but Hogan's mocking/taunting of opponents and the way he feeds and plays off the crowd has been some of the most entertaining stuff to watch on the babyface end from the AWA footage.