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Dylan Waco

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Everything posted by Dylan Waco

  1. Very true. I suspect people are going to love Jim Breaks even if they don't care for WoS (which is hard for me to fathom really, but I guarantee you there will be plenty of people who don't "get it.") And Breaks is really the tip of the iceburg.
  2. I think Greg Gagne fits in this part of your category, so I'll nominate him. Solid wrestler who gets the neopotism tag hung around his neck at times unfairly. People can't grasp that he didn't look overly out-of-place in the 70's and early 80's. He was a believable contender for the AWA title against Bockwinkel in the late 70's. Too many people have only seen his work post 1985 and their knowledge of him starts with "Rambo" Greg Gagne. That's a damn shame. I am hoping that some of his pre-1985 work makes the AWA 80's set when all is said and done to give people a broader sampling of his work. I agree with you. The worst thing about Greg besides the "nepotism" deal was that he moved around the ring awkwardly at times and had a strange body type that some times resulted in bits of his offense looking goofy. No way in hell was a he a bad worker. He had more charisma then he was ever given credit for. In fact I would compare him to Backlund in terms of how he comes across on tape as it goes interactions with the live crowd. Really loved his diving knee off the top and headscissors, he was a solid mat guy, could play a good FIP and was good off the hot tag. In general the High Flyers are one of the more underrated teams ever and I think a lot of that has to do with the way Gagne has been shit on over the years by "smart" fans. Mad Dog Vachon is another AWA guy I expected nothing out of who has looked good so far. Even late in his career he brought real energy to his matches and seemed to work a hundred miles an hour and I don't mean that in the modern indy workrate sense.
  3. I actually think Unabomb was respectable for the most part.
  4. This thread is a little different than a standard "underrated" wrestlers list because I'm more interested in talking about and hearing about guys who either a. Have been almost totally forgotten over the years, i.e. "lost" or b. guys who have been casually dismissed as not worth watching or going out of your way to see because of some established consensus about their lack of talent/commitment/whatever from the broader wrestling World. Brad Rheingans Watching for the AWA Set Rheingans really comes across as the ultimate "I thought this guy was supposed to suck?" dude. The knock on him from veterans has always been that he had "all the talent" but didn't "understand" pro wrestling and was too bland. Not "understanding" pro wrestling is obviously bullshit. The guy was really awesome at it. He was essentially what Kurt Angle should have been - a super athletic, amatuer wrestling machine, with a slick combination of throws/suplexes and a nice ability to adapt to opponent and setting. I've seen him in good tag matches, good undercard matches v. guys like Steve Regal and awesome main events v. Martel and I've just really scratched the surface. Rheingans has been a star, or the star in all of this. Really fun to watch on the mat, really dynamic and explosive offensive wrestler, very athletic bumper, could sell and was great at working leverage and struggle spots. I'm even somewhat skeptical about the charges of "blandnesss" (though to be fair I haven't seen any interview of his) after watching the Regal match where he really hams it up and reacts well to Regal's taunting of ringside fans. Definitely a guy where the conventional wisdom is skewed if not totally wrong. Kantaro Hoshino Really the find of the DVDVR 80's project so far and in a lot of ways the star of the NJPW Set. Hoshino was basically a total unknown prior to that set and I doubt many who didn't get the set could identify his name, let alone his picture. And yet he was at worst one of the top ten guys in NJPW during the 80's - I would argue a strong contender for Top 5 - with tremendous charisma and a shocking degree of versatility for a very small worker who looked like Elvin from the Cosby Show and was often paired off against guys twice to three times his size. Great rapid fire punches, great at working the crowd into a frenzy, tremendous bumper, sweet high spots, et. Was perhaps most impressed by the fact that that the same guy who was working comedy Tom and Jerry spots with Andre The Giant was working grizzly, sadist, veteran gimmick against Liger just a few years later and seemed totally natural in both types of matches despite the fact that his style, gimmick and demeanor never really appeared to change. If another Greatest Wrestler Ever poll ever happens Hoshino seems like the sort of guy that ought to be a top hundred discussion. J.T. Smith Obviously not the level of worker as Hoshino, but I agree with Gabe Sapolsky that he was really the workhorse of early ECW and is a sadly forgotten part of the early era of that company. Unlike Gabe I think the FBI gimmick was great and think the J.T. era was impressive, especially given the fact that at the time his job was essentially to get his ass kicked by various incarnations of the Dudleys. He really was the guy that developed the "shtick, highspot, schitck, highspot" formula that the great Rich, Guido, Smothers incarnation perfected. A really great bumper, with nifty offense for the time, I was also impressed by how well he structured his matches against guys like Hack Myers or Axl Rotten. In a different promotion or era he probably would have been given a lot more chances and had a lot more memorable matches. Mike Enos The little bit of the AWA stuff I've seen holds up well, but in general my love for Enos is based off of his WCW undercard run. Just a truly great utility player. I think Enos worth as a jobber was that he had a good look, good mannerisms and good offense so he always seemed like someone impressive and thus a win over him had value. The 96 Set looks great on paper and I plan to get it, but Enos v. Jericho is a match I would have liked to see make the cut. I absolutely understand why it didn't as it is in no way essential, but it's a match more people ought to see as it is one of Jericho's two best WCW matches and in large part that is because of the incredible offensive barrage Enos unloads on him. Enos was also good fodder for guys as diverse as Malenko and Goldberg and even had a last minute thrown together match against Benoit at Souled Out 99 where he got to showcase some really good selling, in between working some really sweet transitions. One wonders if he would have gotten a bigger push had his first national break been anywhere other than dying days AWA. Bobby Blaze Sort of the "WTF?" star of SMW. Not on the level of Smothers who was absolutely incredible there, but a really unique and talented wrestler who was good at a lot of different things. He's probably most remembered for his feud with Landel where he held the SMW title and worked a sort of redneck Mikey Whipwreck gimmick as accidental young champ. He was good in that role, but I don't think he was nearly as impressive there as he was working workrate matches against Candido, or even paced openers against guys like Killer Kyle. He had a unique offense for the era as he was a big framed guy, with an unusual athleticism that made him capable of looking credible against virtually anyone on the roster. More than anything I was impressed by the fact that Cornette chose Blaze to be Severn's opponent when they brought him in, as the matches are all mat based affairs that are totally different from anything else SMW was doing at the time. I like those bouts an awful lot and I think Blaze would have been an interesting addition to undercard ECW or the WCW Nitro circuit (yes I realize he worked some in WCW, but it was sporadic at best).
  5. I really wish they would bring Regal and Goldust over to SD. Both guys would excel over there, it would give the SD mid-card fresh match ups and it would allow for guys like Kofi and Dolph to be phased into the top of the cards without thinning things out underneath too much.
  6. How did that even come up at F4W?
  7. Smackdown, Superstars and IWRG gave us plenty of good wrestling last year. I actually preferred 2010 to the previous two years.
  8. Marafuji might be a better pick actually.
  9. 1. LOU THESZ/RIC FLAIR AWARD- Tough one. I think L.A. Park is probably as good as pick as any based on what I know, but aside from Triplemania I don't know what value he had as a draw. So I will go with the default answer to this question which is Cena. 3. MOST OUTSTANDING WRESTLER – Black Terry, with the minor qualification that if forced to pick at knife point I'd rather watch Chico Che than anyone else on Earth. 5. BEST BOX OFFICE DRAW- Cena I guess. 6. FEUD OF THE YEAR – Gringos Locos VIP v Cerebro/Terry by a hair over Punk v. Rey. 7. TAG TEAM OF THE YEAR – Los Traumas, unless we are counting trios units in which case Gringos Locos VIP. 8. MOST IMPROVED - Sheamus 9. BEST ON INTERVIEWS- CM Punk 10. MOST CHARISMATIC – Chico Che 11. BEST TECHNICAL WRESTLER - Negro Navarro 12.BRUISER BRODY MEMORIAL AWARD – Black Terry 13.BEST FLYING WRESTLER - Freelance 14. MOST OVERRATED - Have trouble being sure what this means as this could mean "most overpushed" or "most overpimped by smarks" or some combination of both or something different entirely. I will opt for combination of both and say Randy Orton. If "most overpushed" was sole criteria would say Edge. If "most overpimped by smarks" was I would say Davey Richards. 15. MOST UNDERRATED - See above. If combination of "most underpushed" and "most underpimped by smarks" I would say Chris Masters. If "most underpushed" only I would say William Regal. If "most underpimped by smarks" I would still say Chris Masters. 16. PROMOTION OF THE YEAR- IWRG 17. BEST WEEKLY TV SHOW- WWE Superstars 18. PRO WRESTLING MATCH OF THE YEAR - Very tough. I have had this discussion or some variant of it several times this week and have come up with a different answer every time. Black Terry/Chico Che/Dr. Cerebro v. Avisman/Hijo del Diablo/Gringo Loco IWRG 3/7/10 has my favorite moment of the year with the Chico Che fat man freak out/comeback spot. U.S. match of the year is Punk v. Rey from Over The Limit which really was a great, great match with a great post-match payoff. Still in five years time I think the match that is going to stand out the most to me is Black Terry/Dr. Cerebro vs Gringo Loco/El Hijo Del Diablo IWRG 1/24/10. That's the match I judged everything against this year and in some respects nothing really compared to it. So for the purposes of this thread I will go with that match, even though I have answered the same question differently a million times. 20. ROOKIE OF THE YEAR – Assuming he is a rookie Alan Extreme. 21. BEST NON-WRESTLER PERFORMER- Vickie Guerrero 22. BEST TELEVISION ANNOUNCER - No one really deserves this. If pressed I would say Grisham I guess because I found him to be the least offensive week to week guy. 23. WORST TELEVISION ANNOUNCER- Mike Tenay 24.BEST MAJOR SHOW - Wrestlemania I guess CATEGORY B 1. WORST MAJOR SHOW OF THE YEAR - Any TNA ppv other than Lockdown or the ECW show. 2. BEST WRESTLING MANEUVER - Chico Che's fat man splash. 3. MOST DISGUSTING PROMOTIONAL TACTIC - Not sure as nothing in wrestling really disgusts me anymore. I suppose Lawler's Memphis promotion re-running the "Lawler was responsible for Kauffman's death" angle and using a Heath Ledge Joker dressed character as avenger of Kauffman from grave was pretty bad but I actually enjoyed that. 4. WORST TELEVISION SHOW - Impact 5. WORST MATCH OF THE YEAR - I try to avoid the truly awful. MVP v. Husky Harris was incredibly shitty and would probably be my pick without thinking to hard. 7. WORST PROMOTION - I don't watch Dragon Gate because the style doesn't appeal to me at all. So I would have to say TNA. 8. BEST BOOKER - "who booked the first four months of IWRG this year?" I agree with this. 10. BEST GIMMICK - Gringos Loco VIP 11. WORST GIMMICK - Abyss 12. BEST WRESTLING BOOK - Memphis 82 book. 13. BEST PRO WRESTLING DVD - Cornette Rookie Year Set
  10. Was Alan Extreme a rookie this year?
  11. The brawler award is named after a guy who wasn't any good and who is regarded as a good brawler because of how he looked. So even though I disagree that Necro didn't really do anything of note last year, even if that were the case his winning would be a fitting tribute to the awards namesake.
  12. I don't even know what the fuck the Observer awards look like these days, but if Dave would take a ballot from a non-subscriber I would vote either Terry or Chico Che for the "best worker" award (I know it's named after Flair or someone isn't it?) and I would have an IWRG match as my MOTY.
  13. My daughter asks me all the time what would happen if Rey Misterio "fought" John Cena
  14. Helms could have gotten over as a major act if the Sugar Shane gimmick he was working in dying days WCW had carried over into WWF. "The Hurricane" was never going to be a main eventer.
  15. I think the Monday Night Wars combined with widespread internet fandom have changed the industry forever. Marquee matchups are run dozens of times a year because the sheer volume of tv hours is insanely high. Short title reigns are the norm (though a few years back we had some epic reigns, including a Cena run that might have gone over a year and a half had he not been injured) because the champions are expected to work on tv every week for the purpose of ratings/revenue. "Real" heat is gone/rare because the number of fans that are following the wrestling through the web is incredibly large (seriously, EVERY adult i know who is a fan at least occasionally checks the web for rumors/news bits. most of these people aren't tape trading, star rating type guys either). I've said it before, but I have no clue why anyone would watch wrestling for storylines or angles at this point. I think the last long term, sustained storyline that blew me away was the US v. Canada angle in 97 and even that leaves you with a sour taste in your mouth when you consider there was no payoff due to Montreal. There have been plenty of good things since then, including things this decade. But almost nothing that delivers on it's initial promise (see Nexus, Straight Edge Society), and the few things that do don't have the same explosive effect because the net eliminates almost any surprise possibilities. Anyway for the most part I agree about the nature of heels and faces and the attachment I have to them (though it is worth noting that my eight year old daughter reacts huge to Rey Jr. for example and extremely negatively to Sheamus, Dolph Ziggler and CM Punk, so how much of this has to do with becoming older and jaded shouldn't be dismissed). But in terms of match quality...you couldn't pay me to go back and watch 2000 WWF at this point. The rest of the decade has spoiled me and the idea of watching HHH "wrestling as bioepic" matches just doesn't compare. Hell a match like Punk v. Rey from the Over The Limit this year had the right atmosphere AND was technically better in every respect to any match the WWF ran from it's hottest point (99-01).
  16. Curious as to what you mean by "sucks" in the first line that is bolded. If you are talking storylines and promos I basically agree with a few exceptions. But I gave up watching wrestling for those reasons over a decade a go. If you mean in ring I think WWE especially is a thousand times better now than it was in 00.
  17. That Lord Al Hayes match was on WWE 24/7 several years back and is good as fuck. Seriously if I ever get around to doing "waco comps" or some horribly silly shit like that it will make an appearance alongside gems like Cowabunga v. Jim Cornette and JT Smith/Little Guido v. Spike/Bubba Dudley
  18. Is this the promo where Bischoff is mouthing the words both guys are saying as they say them?
  19. Part of what makes this match great is the storyline around it with Douglas scoffing at the TV title pre-match and just dismissively trying to win via countout before realizing he's in a real war and appreciated his title win as a result of the competition in the match. This also officially began the "TV title is co-equal to World title" theme that would dominant ECW til the end of it's run.
  20. Honestly I think Kanemoto is the only one of the big name juniors who got better the older he got. His prick heel act is a lot more interesting and effective now, when he relies less on flash and sizzle.
  21. Also Malenko/Benoit v. Blue Bloods from 95 is the best Malenko/Benoit tag match I've seen from WCW and that falls under bigs v. litles
  22. Nitro cruiser wrestling is comically overrated. Hell from memory my favorite matches involving cruisers from that era were matches with bigs v. littles like Jericho v. Enos or Eddy/Jarrett v. Benoit/McMicahel
  23. The full ten minutes of this is really great though I can see why it wasn't needed to make the set.
  24. From memory these guys have four or five FanCam/Commercial matches. I actually like Cyberslam second to least out of that bunch but I haven't watched it in a while.
  25. A good friend of mine is a casual fan. Apparently he tuned in tonight at some point and I get a text from him about half way through the Bryan/Regal match that just said "this match is great!" I've had this stuff happen before which sort of puts the lie to the notion that only us super smarty internet fans notice and/or give a shit about stuff like that.
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