Dylan Waco

Huge fan of him, and hadn't really considered him, but he does have some strong points in his favor. For starters I think he is one of the top two or three bases in the world which is something that I think is increasingly important. He's just excellent at being a human balance beam for flyers and getting over their offense to boot. Another micro plus - he works stiff and has varied offense. At this core Harper is a brawler, but he's got a ton of tricks up his sleeve. I am a huge mark for guys who have multiple ways of putting you away or getting credible near falls, and while Harper isn't Sheamus level in that regard, he's got a lot in the holster for a guy who is never pushed hard. Both is indie run and WWE run are really, really underrated. In the case of the indies he's a guy who is a victim of two things. First he was on that scene when it was really deep with "name" talent that he was never going to be seen as on the level of, no matter what he did between the bells. Secondly, he seemed to peak right before he got signed. I always thought he was good, but he hit another level in the 10 months or so before inking his deal and he had a GREAT run in the closing months. I remember having him insanely high in my WKO100 that year (number 9 I think) based on matches he was having in 2CW, but also bouts v. guys like Tatanka and Danny Doring that were legitimately really good. In a weird way I think another year on the indies would have given him a bigger rep as a "great" indie worker, even though he was already someone with a lot of fans when he was signed. In the WWE he's been tremendous really, but he's just been completely lost in the shuffle. For my money he was the best guy in the best match of the year last year (the EC Shield v. Wyatts tag), and was also awesome teaming with Rowan after the Shield v. Wyatts feud fell apart. In fact Harper had great matches in trios, tags and singles last year, and was legitimately one of the best guys in the World. For a while this year he took over the mantle of the best t.v. match and B-Show worker in the promotion, which seems like a minor positive, but this is a company that produces a lot of t.v. and has had some really strong stuff on B-Show's in recent years. Aside from Cesaro and maybe Sheamus there probably isn't anyone in the company over the last two years who has as many good matches against as many different opponents in as many different settings in terms of card placement, shows, style of match, et. I actually think Cesaro kind of curses Harper in the sense that if Cesaro isn't around - or better yet was getting a push - Harper would be the obvious unsung big guy, with indie cred, a unique look, and incredible skills, who isn't being used to his full potential. As it stands he's even second tier in that regard which makes him feel almost wholly irrelevant. It's a shame because he's really fucking great, and I don't see him as an outlandish lower end pick for this project at all.

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This kind of speaks to my theory that Dragon Gate delivers for it's hardcore audience well, and does a strong job building angles over time, but it is severely lacking if someone is just jumping in blind. I have no clue what the hell is going on in the promotion half the time and I at least try to stay conscious of the major angles in the company. The idea that more context would make me appreciate certain people more is possible, but I do wonder if it would be a case of desensitizing me to things I find distasteful/annoying/et., or a growing appreciation for what the wrestlers are doing. In any even it's tough to make it a priority when I actively dislike 2/3rds of the roster.

Speaking for myself but my criticism about body part selling tends to focus on cases where the whole match is built around it and it is either blown off or ignored in really obvious, head shaking ways. I only watch Mochi matches here and there, don't even know if that is a criticism of him that is common. If so what are the controversial matches?

I would recommend virtually anything he did with Huracan Castillo Jr. both feuding and teaming. Not everything is great, and a few things are less than good, but there is a lot of really strong quality in the mix. I remember liking his match teaming with Colon v. The Sheepherders a lot. I'm going to watch some of his non-WWC matches this week and may come back with more recommendations.

I like Mochizuki, CIMA, Tozowa and Fuji more than anyone else in DG, but I'm curious to see what about him you would consider un-Dragon Gate? Or is your point that he is so great within that style that he is atypical?

I nominated him based on comments Joe Lanza was making on Twitter the other night, but honestly he's a guy worth talking about in his own right. While I think it is sort of easy to call Poffo underrated, and there are ways in which I think that moniker fits him really well, I also think he's a guy whose rep as a worker is kind of benefited by how he was used. Here I mean that when you go back and watch him now you see him doing stuff that stands out as really unique for the era, and yet getting no traction, so it sort of fits the popular narrative of "undercard workhorse who didn't get the push he deserved." Having said that I do wonder how much of what makes Lanny unique is just fluff. Don't get me wrong, he had matches I really enjoyed against a pretty wide variety of people - Adrian Adonis, Terry Funk, Ron Garvin, Rip Rogers, Eddie Gilbert, Rene Goulet, et. - and some of those matches I think go beyond just being "fun" undercard affairs. That said a lot of his flashy offense was REALLY light looking (as in barely making contact light) and I think that stands out more when you watch him in bulk. I also think while he was quite good at building his matches, he never really put together a match like Barry Horowitz v. Blue Blazer where you came away from it thinking you'd seen something that would be considered a classic if it was in the main event slot. There is also the fact that in his worse moments I think he became a sort of fuck toy for other wrestlers to try out new shit on and abuse in illogical/absurd ways, which may not be his fault, but I don't think it adds to his case. His selling was also a bit goofy, though that is partially just a reflection of the times. I will say that his highspots for his era really were exciting and different and the style he worked made otherwise shit shows enjoyable to watch. While he's probably thought of more as the random jobber in the WWF who did moonsaults, I always enjoyed watching him work the mat as he had a bunch of cool - if not somewhat repetitive - escapes and counters that he would go to that were uncommon for the place and time. At his best he comes across as a modern version of Rikki Starr and I say that as a compliment. I LOVE The Genius as a character, but aside from one SNME tag match, I'm not sure there is anything from that run that really stands out, and while he was good in ICW I'm not sure he was good enough to really merit consideration for something like this. Still he's the sort of guy who I wish had gotten more of a chance on the national stage.

Probably the last guy I will nominate based on Puerto Rico, unless something really unexpected emerges from the rest of the IWA footage that is floating around out there. His team with Miguel Perez Jr. was good, maybe even very good, but I think this guy was really miscast as a face. Yes he worked well as an underneath babyface, and I've seen many tags where he was a strong face in peril, but I think his real strengths are as a dirtbag heel. Sadly we only get glimpses of this due to footage gaps, but the 91 feud with Miguel Perez Jr. is excellent, and the other heel clips I've seen from him from this period - including a t.v. match v. Colon - are really excellent performances. He had a tendency to work light, and a natural awkwardness to him, but his sleaziness really was something to behold. Where Art Barr was a more dynamic Gino, I'd consider him a less dynamic one, though there are some respects in which I think he was a more reliably sound wrestler.

I've always had a soft spot for him because he's a South Carolina guy. I actually think the gimmick hurts him some because it's so sterile that nothing he did really stands out. In real time I always remember thinking he was a solid hand, but never had anything spectacular on this resume. That said, he's exactly the sort of guy where I would be open to reexploring him. If anyone has a handful of AJPW recs for example, I'll see if I can't track them down.

I was actually shocked he didn't have a thread already. I was a huge mark for The Juicer gimmick as a kid (god help me) and I like the glimpses of him in Portland we have as a completely unique (for that promotion) high flyer. Obviously if people are going to vote for him it'll be based on the Lucha run. I'm honestly not sure there is enough there to merit it, but he fits into the category of a true heatseeker, who was excellent at injecting his character into his matches. In that regard I'd argue he was a more dynamic Gino Hernandez which is kind of funny because there is someone I nominated today who I think is sort of on the opposite end of the Gino spectrum.

In some ways Pain is the all time journeyman wrestler. If you are the type of person who thinks making it on the big stage is a prerequisite to be considered for a list like this he's off the table. If you are someone who favors searching for the obscure, forgotten, and eccentric, he's someone you might consider. I can't honestly say I'll vote for him, but for guys who made their career in the indies there are very few guys who gave off a "real asskicker" vibe as authentic as Bull's. He is one of the better American death match wrestlers, and in general is very fun in the sort of out of control brawls that defined much of independent wrestling in the pre-ROH years. He's one of those guys who I always get excited to see matches of pop up on YouTube whether they are short TN indie slugfests or wild fights with Ian Rotten. Unlike a lot of guys with somewhat similar careers, he did have a really great run in Puerto Rico as part of the Texas Hangmen that produced some really strong matches that I would consider "canon" for that time and place. I would consider him a viable pick for people who were really into Midwest indie wrestling, American Death Matches, or Puerto Rico, so he deserved a nomination.

I could see someone putting Cornette at 100 as an acknowledgement of what he was able to bring to the table when he was "forced" into a match. I agree that he was often presented too strong in SMW, but a part of that was out of necessity given the size of the crew in that promotion. I would also argue that his actual work in SMW was often very good, and not just in the sense that he had good working punches and could bump. The matches with Butch Cassidy, Cowabunga and others were well laid out, got a lot of time, and filled that time very well. The Cowabunga match in particular is a very good match, with great psych, good build and a nice mix of seriousness and highspots. You get the feeling watching this stuff that Cornette could have actually been a very strong wrestler just by having a command of the basics. I also think he is sort of a provocative pick in the sense that I would listen to an argument that his managerial work should count. This argument has been made before in the WON HOF debates, but with the Midnights the act was really the Midnights AND Jim Cornette. Cornette had signature spots and interactions that were delivered in the vast majority of matches. It was not uncommon at all for the matches to revolve around interference from Corny and the subsequent payoff of a big Cornette bump. I am by no means saying that all managers work should be included but I think Cornette is a rare case where it doesn't seem like a completely absurd thing to suggest. I won't count it myself, but it's not something that I think can be dismissed out of hand.

From BuryWindham via The Nomination Thread: "The Patriot (Del Wilkes) version is a curious talent. Does he belong in the same breathe as Misawa, Funk, Lawler, Tenryu? Probably not but is he one of the greatest workers ever? Perhaps to an extent. The value of Wilkes as a great worker is similar to that of Tommy Rogers an excellent tag team specialist that when given shots at singles matches put on fun, never boring and solid ring work. For Patriots best work his work with Kobashi in the 96 tag league, was his best stuff. For tag matches his match where he and Kobashi faced Akiyama and Misawa is probably his best match and a high recommendation for me. I'd be willing to call it the second best match of a memorable tournament full of great matches. For singles work, the Bret Hart feud was something of a bright spot in a time where the WWE had next to none. He was over, the capture the flag match was also great fun. I'll nominate him based purely of being on the all time great tag specialists, his memorable gimmick which I personaly feel was always over and being an all around good singles talent. "

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Nominating Lanny Poffo, Art Barr, The Patriot and Huracan Castillo Jr. Poffo via 80s sets/Yearbooks, Barr and Patriot via Yearbooks, Castillo Jr. via my massive PR thread.

Nominating Bull Pain via Yearbooks and Puerto Rico thread

I just rewatched the Finals of the 96 tag league for the first time in a while. Usually what grips me about the match is the dynamic between Kawada/Misawa and Akiyama's role as sacrificial lamb/glorified young boy trying to save the god king in the face of the Demon Army. But this time around I was really blown away by Taue's performance to the point where I think he was clearly the best guy in the match if you adjust for the fact that it was a match that was less "about" him than anyone else. One of the big knocks on Taue is that his offense doesn't look as hurty as other people and/or it looks awkward. It's funny because here I thought his offense looked more on point than anyone else's. Not that the other guys looked bad, but there were flubs or minor timing issues with the others, including a really egregious one with Kawada and Misawa. Taue by contast delivered his stuff dead on, and his timing was pretty much perfect. In terms of role playing, I don't think you will see many performances in the history of wrestling better than Taue's here. As the big man asskicker he is just great in this match. His body language, mannerisms, facial expressions, et. all fit with the role he has as Kawada's strong arm man. The build and delivery of the nodowa off the apron to Akiyama is incredible largely because of the way Taue sells the act itself. Down the stretch he is equally great running interference for Kawada, cheerleading for him, reacting to Akiyama clinging to his leg, et. The way he sold the singular impact of being rocked by shots in this was great to, and I honestly thought his selling was better than anyone elses. I have never been a big fan of the pop up selling after head drops, which both Misawa and Kawada do in this match. To be fair both guys dot it as well as is possible, but I much prefer the way Taue reacts to what he eats here, than the delayed reaction approach. He also deserves credit for some really well executed, timed, and delivered cut off spots. It's one match, but it does make me want to go back and watch a bunch of Taue. I was going to have him really high anyhow, but if he stands out of the pack like this in a match this great, I could have him astronomically high.

Will listen to this tomorrow, but noting for the record that Rude v. Steamer is in my mind the best WCW match ever

Seems like a guy where if we had more footage he would be a solid pick. I think he was more fiery than Invader 3, but more precise/fluid than Invader 1. On pure ability based on what we have from his prime he seems like one of the most talented guys in Puerto Rico. Really good balance of athleticism, speed, sound timing, et. I absolutely love his big comeback, fist of fury spot to he point where it is probably my favorite signature spot of it's kind in Puerto Rico. Best footage we have of him is really good but there is so little of it I can't justify voting for him. Still he's a guy where I always hope more pops up, and I could see someone who grew up watching him having him on their ballot.

There is a ton here to respond to, and unfortunately I don't have a ton of time these days, but I will say that I am including everything when I assess wrestlers for this project. That said, how to deal with guys I saw a lot live is something that I struggle with in large part due to the fact that the great majority of my live wrestling experiences took place over 20 years ago. On the one hand I can not ignore that Brian Pillman connected with me huge as a kid in a live setting, to the point where I would jump up and down and lose my shit for everyone of his matches. On the other hand I was eight years old the first time I saw Pillman live. To me live viewing as a kid gave me certain emotional attachments (Pillman, Arn, Windham) that drove my interest and made me a hardcore fan. I happen to think that in the aforementioned cases the footage holds up to scrutiny too, though I'm not sure I can completely distance myself from being a kid watching them live. Where it is more problematic is when you start thinking about guys like Scott Steiner and The Great Muta who came across as absolutely revolutionary in a live setting when I was a kid, but a lot of that vibe has warn off with time, and the flaws have become more evident. My adult live experiences are much more limited, but I do put a lot of stock in guys who work hard at house shows when they don't have to, and someone like Jimmy Rave played himself onto my list almost entirely on the back of live experiences I had watching him this year.

Nominating: Miguel Perez Jr. Super Medico Believe Perez Jr. has enough matches reviewed in Yearbook/Puerto Rico match threads. For Medico w/Rufus Jones v. Battens Chicky Starr, Hugo and Carlos Colon are wearing tuxes and introduce this match from what looked like another part of the arena which is something I wasn't expecting. Awesome moment early as Rufus is in a headlock and goes into his jive dance, slips out and the Batten face plants to a huge pop. The Battens are actually really good heels as they do a great job taking solid bumps and playing the fool for the babyface team. Gotta love the faces doing the heel tactics behind the refs back as the Battens freak the fuck out and plead with the fans to tell the ref what is going on. The Battens finally get in a cheap shot to the back of Rufus when he hits the ropes to take over. I loved the way Rufus sold that shot as he sold it like an old man who's back went out while taking out the trash. The Battens end up doing the switcharoo behind the refs back that the faces had been utilizing against them, but Rufus is able to fight out shortly thereafter and we get an epic hot tag with the Batten leaping to stop it and Medico going fucking nuts with fists of furry to a massive pop. Rufus knocks one of the Battens out with a headbutt and then Medico rolls through on the reverse crossbody for the pin, as The Battens claim their tights were held. v. Hercules Ayala I think I have a higher tolerance for Ayala than most. He's not a good wrestler, but you can plug him into certain roles or situations and he is perfectly acceptable and that is basically what he was here - a perfectly acceptable, bullying heel. On the flip side I thought Medicowas really, really good in this. I hesitate to say great because there is only so much you can do with Ayala, but basically everything thatMedico did in this was good. Loved his opening barrage and how over the crowd was for him. The psychology of Ayala on the verge of losing and bailing out to the floor was well played and I also liked how every time the pace picked up in this Medico got the advantage. I really loved Medico's punch flurry when Ayala was caught up in the ropes and Medico's selling and timing on all of his comeback was really good. Medico also took a real good post shot in this which is something I am always a mark for. Ayala in control wasn't as compelling on it's own, though I did like the initial shot that set up the FIP and they did a really great job with the hope spots as the sleeper attempt felt huge and I thought Medico's desperate fighting out of the figure four attempts was really great. I didn't even mind the finish here, because it really came off like Ayala had to do everything to get the figure-four on and was not going to relinquish it because he knew if that wasn't going to put Medico away nothing would. Really strong performance by Medico that got plenty of time (about 14 minutes all total interspersed with what looked like a few very minor edits for local promos), built well, told a good story and left you feeling that the face was a star with real heart and the heel was a piece of shit. v. White Knight (Pat Rose) This is a match between two guys in long white trunks and completely white masks with totally different gimmicks. Kind of a strange match in that there wasn't a lot that was done and a few restholds that lasted for while, but the atmosphere remained electric throughout and the hope spots and cut offs were a lot of fun (and simple). The highlight of the match might have actually been the opening punch exchange which sounds like light praise, but it was pretty awesome. There were a couple of cool rope running spots and I actually thought this was one of the better executed multiple ref bump sequences I've ever seen. In many ways this is very subdued match, but I really enjoyed it.