Jimmy Redman

I can't think of a single person on that roster that Bryan would get booed for beating up tonight. They'd be too happy that Bryan isn't really retiring. A heel turn would be the dumbest possible thing to try. Doesn't seem like a work to me anyway.

Yeah, I'd find it odd if someone liked Christian for his 2009 ECW ace run but didn't like Matt for doing basically the same thing the year before.

That's pretty rad. It's funny that you mention about it being an anti-smark workrate kind of thing, because I remember after watching the Demos vs Brainbusters I said...I can't remember but something like "these guys are working at such a high level, but using smarts and tag team spots. If they were working at the same level using movez and head drops people would go nuts calling it *****" Like, the exact same thought went through my head as you. Demos are awesome. I really can't say much more than what you just did.

For you I will! Is this stuff I can find online?

On the first point, my counter to that is that all of those fundamentals don't add up to anything to me if you're boring. I appreciate that as a worker those are good skills to have, and skills that other wrestlers and offices would appreciate in him, but to me it means nothing because I'm a viewer, not a worker. I care about what appears on my screen, not how many boxes a guy can tick. Physical proficiency just has so little to do with great wrestling to me. Anyone can be mechanically sound and athletic enough to go through moves and spots and bumps, but it won't necessarily make for a great match because great wrestling is about the story, the emotion, as you say the wow factor. Mechanics mean nothing to me in and of themselves. Of course this is all stated with the huge asterisk that sometimes, there are situations where physical proficiency is a significant positive (or negative) and thus comes into my consideration. A guy like, I dunno...Tamura, who is so silky smooth and ridiculously talented that it's a big part of his appeal. Or a guy like Slaughter who not only bumps well but takes insane lunatic bumps that make him look dead. But it has to be something...special. I can't say "he's a good working heel, bumps well, sells well, solid in the ring" and nothing else and get excited, because again, ticking those boxes does nothing for me in and of itself. If I had happened to have seen a bunch of Ted in Mid South (and I may do so, you never know, I've found my watching groove heading down the stretch) and found a bunch of his matches awesome or bunch of things he did in matches awesome, we'd be having a different conversation. From what I've seen so far - the Duggan feud and his WWF run - I've found Ted extremely solid in the ring, but not really capable of much more outside of the Duggan matches. I need more than what he's showing me. I get that he's your fave and he has skills that you value highly, but he doesn't for me. He's fine. That's all. At this point there are probably 100 other guys I rate more. But I mean, we're talking about him being in my 110s so it's not like he's far off the cut as it is. On your question about AJ, my answer is...yes, I guess? To all of those? I guess a part of it is mechanics, if you like, in the sense that he is incredibly good physically, takes maniac bumps and hits his offense really well. But it's also so much more than that - his babyface fire, his timing of big spots and comebacks, his ability to get his ass kicked and sell, the dual role he plays so well as juniors ace/heavyweight underdog, and his ability to rise above a spotty environment to make his matches and spots mean something in context. He's a great tag worker, great gimmick worker, had an incredible year in 2005, a lot of good years on top of that, and a myriad of great matches that hold up extremely well even though most of them took place in a shithole like TNA. It's funny, you say a knock is not having long matches, but to me that is a net positive because I'd much rather sit through a 15 minute match than a 30 minute match every single day of the week. (Why must matches go so long!?!? I don't have the patience for this anymore!)

I don't think it's an absurd notion at all. AJ's 2005 holds up to me more than almost anything, which is amazing because - it cannot be stated enough - TNA.

Yeah I agree, I see Bryan's "meta heel" run as not an inability to play a true heel, but a conscious decision based on the expectations that were placed on him at the time as ROH Champion, and finding a way to play a character while still delivering the high-quality matches that ROH's appeal and marketability was based on. You can watch his late 2011 heel turn, through all of the monster matches and AJ stuff and see that he's perfectly capable of playing a "true" heel and garnering heat when it is required of him. He was a babyface again within 12 months but I don't think that's on him as much as the fans just never want to boo the guy for too long. And I think the same holds true for ROH - he's so good in the ring that the ROH fans would cheer him anyway for the great matches, and again, abandoning the great matches wasn't an option since their business was built on great matches selling DVDs.

This is kind of where I'm at with Ted. I don't find anything wrong with him, but I also don't find anything outstanding about him either, save for the gimmick and skits and promos. It's a similar thing to Dusty really, where he was great out of the ring, but I don't find what I'm looking for in the ring. And it's not like he does anything wrong or I expect him to be different, it's just...he doesn't engage me in the ring at all. I say this with a huge asterisk because I haven't seen as much Mid South as I'd like and I know that's supposed to be his best work. I like the Duggan feud a lot. I'd have to explore his Mid South work in order to rank him at all, to be honest, and he's not going to be a priority because again, there's nothing there that grabs me and draws me in. He's solid as hell mechanically but I just care so little about that as a metric.

Blackwell was great, kind of like Mark Henry 30 years before there was Mark Henry. Super working fat guy. Unbelievable, ridiculously nutty bumps for his size, the way he would just splat was straight out of like a cartoon or something. Knew how to use his size. Also really good at selling just the right amount. His willingness to show just enough vulnerability was the key to the drama in his matches.

For where I'm coming from, I really enjoyed the Flair Starrcade '85 match, but that's about it as far as liking Dusty matches. Didn't like the '84 match as much. I remember a Tully U.S. Title match being so-so. And I have this memory stuck in my head of a hideous Barry Windham match during his black glove phase that was so bad it turned me off both guys for a good while, and maybe I still haven't recovered.

It's a testament to Han that he's someone I got into almost immediately even though I have basically no time for shoot style. He opened the door for me to enjoy a style that I previously couldn't even sit through, and he gets a hell of a lot of credit for that from me. Like Breaks he's a guy with almost immediate, universal appeal. Anyone who starts watching him can't help but be impressed, even if they previously had no concept of the style or context, or (like me) don't like the style. I think there's an argument that some guys get bumped up ahead of their contemporaries for essentially being gateway drugs (Aja Kong in particular, also Breaks), but I choose to see that as being a significant positive. It's not an easy thing to work a style, perhaps a niche or unfashionable one, and make it entertaining and universal enough that even people who are novices to, or actively dislike, that style can enjoy it...I feel like that's a real accomplishment as a worker. It's not a traditional one because wrestlers work in the moment and aren't thinking about randoms on the internet 20 years later when they wrestle, but at the same time, creating something that is timeless, something that transcends the time and place they are in, is special. And kind of necessary for the purposes of this list and the kind of things we do.

You've said that a thousand times and I still don't entirely know what it means, but it sounds right.

I am all in on Andre. Footage issues aren't something I care about if you can paint a picture with what's there, and what's there shows just how great Andre was at the pro wrestling. Glimpses of him in his physical prime show a force of nature. He is literally other worldly in the way he looks and moves and wrestles. The way he throws his body around is just absurd for a guy his size. So many giants of vaguely comparable size come off as lumbering oafs. They're hard to knock down, but in turn they don't really offer up much offense, because they're so slow and cumbersome. But with Andre, when he goes on the attack he gives the impression that he could kill someone without even realising it. He seems so powerful. I can remember watching him do the over-the-shoulder armbreaker on Hansen in their match, and Andre's hands take up like Stan's whole arm, and it looks like Andre could snap it in half at any moment if he so chose. And Stan is a big guy. His late 80s WWF career is so great at showing just how smart he was, and just how effective he was at getting the most out of his limited physical ability. I'm such a big fan of this run. The Hogan match is legitimately great in my eyes, just a perfect spectacle match. Andre is so awesome in the first Survivor Series main event, just being a total prick, and generally in this whole run Andre is a great character, heeling it up all over the place. He uses that, his aura and some well-timed shots to create some entertaining matches even when he could barely walk around. Seeing what he can do in 1990 shows just how much this is a mental game, and when you look at guys who have more physical tools than almost anyone on earth and do absolutely nothing compelling with them...another argument perhaps, but it shows you just how much Andre "got it" and how complete a wrestler he was. Andre vs Stan is one of my favourite ever matches. I think he's the best big man ever. He's in my 20s at the moment.

Grey I'm definitely ranking. I don't know if I have him as high as my favourite British guys - Breaks, Jones, Rocco - but he'll certainly place well. Like OJ says, he's like the quintessential babyface. And just has so many great matches. I'd like to repeat a point made earlier in this thread, in that if you've come across Breaks and liked him, you really should keep digging and look at guys like Grey, Jones, Cortez, Sarjeant, etc. There's lots to love in WoS, and a lot of GWE candidates.

Breaks may be the single most revelatory wrestler of all time. I don't think there's a single person who has stumbled onto him and not thought "Holy fucking shit at this Jim Breaks motherfucker!" He has that immediate effect, like shooting up smack. And it never goes away the more you watch, he's endlessly entertaining. Just so magnetic. He's knocking at the door of my Top 10, in all honesty.

How high are people going on Mark Henry? I've got lots of love for the big guy and I'm wondering how far I can push him up. I love the way he works as a big man. Amazing in-ring mannerisms and shit talking. Great construction of matches. He's really good at selling just enough as well when the moment calls. On the subject of matches, as Will said above the idea that he doesn't have the matches isn't true. I'd argue that all of these are great: vs Rey, Smackdown 20.1.06 vs Rey, Smackdown 27.1.06 vs Undertaker, Smackdown 10.2.06 vs Rey, Smackdown 23.6.06 vs Matt Hardy, ECW 19.8.08 vs Big Show, MITB 2011 vs Sheamus, Summerslam 2011 vs Sheamus, Smackdown 26.8.11 vs Randy Orton, NOC 2011 vs Randy Orton, HIAC 2011 vs Big Show, Vengeance 2011 vs Big Show, Survivor Series 2011 vs Daniel Bryan, Smackdown 20.1.12 vs CM Punk, Raw 2.4.12 vs John Cena, MITB 2013 w/ Big E vs Real Americans, Raw 16.12.13 To add to that you got random ass shit like his mini-feuds with Booker T (2003) and Evan Bourne (2009), where they had these cute little 5 minute matches based on trying to knock Henry down. His team with MVP lead to some really good tags vs Jerishow that I kind of want to revisit There's a short match with Punk on ECW in late 2007 that's basically a forerunner to their awesome Raw match years later. And he's a great addition to any kind of gimmick or multi-man match as well, just on account of Being Mark Henry.

Yeah but you can say that about plenty of guys. It's just weird because like, I'm in the same boat. I never got to talk about him the first time, and he'll be in my Top 5 most likely, but I still have no idea what to say about him. Just a weird case. Having said that, Eddie is awesome and will be in my Top 5 most likely.

For a guy who finished Top 10 last time and could still go pretty high here too, there's been next to no talk about him. Other high end candidates get pages and pages of discussion and revision, but with Eddie it seems that there's some kind of fatigue that prevents people from really discussing him anymore. Where do you see Eddie now? If you did the 2006 poll, have your feelings on him changed since then? What do you think causes the fatigue/lack of discussion?

Ohtani is easily my favourite juniors worker aside from Liger. That's not as high praise as it sounds because the juniors style isn't really my thing, but the best stuff outstrips my dislike of the style and Ohtani's best stuff is just ridiculously good. He's the guy that I most look forward to seeing in an 8-minute Super Juniors tourney match. His springboard dropkick is a thing of beauty. I like how he always makes his stuff look impactful, even when he's doing flips and shit. He launches his body into things really violently. He's a guy that I've watched enough of for the purposes of this project, but I'm still keen to watch so much more. Sometimes I get fatigued from binge watching a particular guy for too long, but Ohtani still intrigues me.

I love Dusty as a promo and a character, but sadly not in the ring. I WANT to like him in the ring, because I like him so much outside of it, but whenever I see him I just don't. He's a weird guy to say "recommend me some matches" about, but honestly I'd like to know what recommendations there are. He's not a guy who's best matches are immediately obvious to someone like me.

This is my conundrum. He was vital to the 6 man classics from that era, but I'm not sure how you build a case for him individually on the back of those matches. Also one of the best examples of a junior heavyweight who rose above that stigma without actually graduating from that class. This is me too. If there was such a thing as a "Guys Who Were The Best Non-Singles Workers" list, he'd be pretty high. As it is, I'm deciding just how far his work in all of those tags and trios gets him. I don't think I'm ranking that many guys whose whole case is in tag work. He's a bubble guy at the moment. Having said that, he sure was great in all of those tags. He's a great dickhead.

The Hansen/Colon feud is life changing in how great it is, he'd almost get a look at my list for that alone. But beyond that he's looked good in everything I've seen of him, and as Dylan says is just a master at working gimmick matches. He's great as the ace of PR, he has that insane connection to an audience that honestly only a few guys in wrestling can match, the kind that makes everything he's doing seem like life and death. He comes off as a hero to an entire people.

Psicosis I have a huge soft spot for and will almost surely rank. He might be my favourite base of all time. He was great as Rey's touring partner. I like the Santo match. And I enjoy him basically whenever I see him in a trios in that mid 90s period. He's just such a great bumper, willing to fling his body all over the place, and with his size it makes for really impactful, dangerous looking bumps. And in turn his size makes his offense work even if he's not the most technically proficient guy around. And to be honest I almost don't even care if he ever goes on offense because he's just so good at taking guys' shit and making it look awesome. Is there anything specific from this century that people want to recommend? Don't think I've seen anything recent outside of his WWE run.

Hayabusa is a guy I need to watch more of. I've said before that I have a soft spot for guys in masks doing crazy flippydoes, and he's a good example of that. I enjoy him whenever I come across him. Mainly I need to watch him more in FMW, because I wonder if he's a guy that I like as a novelty, a special attraction who goes into a NJ tag league or ECW or whatever and looks so cool because he's different.

Of the three Shield guys he'd be the one I'd be most likely to rank, but I don't know if I can go there. One thing that's easy to forget with the advent of NXT is that he was really great in FCW. The Rollins series, and the Regal feud, with of course all of the promo work as well was all great shit. He was just so great pre-call up and that run is a good bridge between indy Mox and WWE Ambrose. I like the way that he works and I don't agree at all with the argument that he's become some terrible worker post-Shield. He wrestles exactly how the Dean Ambrose character should wrestle. But at the same time, not enough of his post-Shield matches have really grabbed me, and he's not a guy who can rely on a lot of awesome indy matches either. So I think that's what keeps him just outside my list.