Jetlag

I've seen very little of him but when he has his working boots on, I think he's a legit great worker when he's doing those weird BattlARTsian mat brawls. He understands exactly what he's doing and created a style that works perfect for him, that he can slot many different workers into. There's a match vs. Chris Hero where he sells dislocated shoulder (or was it knee, can't remember) and it's seriously some of the best stuff I've seen, including a great post match where they pop it back in. As for his deathmatches again I haven't seen much but from what I can tell he is a smart worker who can tell a story even when he's literally just swinging garbage and get watchable matches out of skinny and morbidly obese near backyarders. There is a match vs a morbidly obese guy called Dixieland Destroyer which is a herculean carryjob from Ian. Watch that and check out how Ian is selling getting choked out and tell me he's not great.

I can say Takada is sleeping because I see it in his matches and I can point to examples. Which I did in my post. If you had an argument to why you think he's a decent matworker and why he ranks above, say, Daisuke Ikeda, with examples to point to, or if there was some Takada stuff to fill out his resume, like something against a lesser opponent or an example of Takada carrying somebody, I might consider ranking him. (i.e. not a "big Match") I don't see how sprawling for takedowns and fighting for escapes from submissions is comparable to avoid getting tossed into explosive garbage in any way. These matches are laid out in completely different ways... the comparison goes way over my head.

They are U-Style guys. Sakata was in RINGS too... I don't see why it's pointless to compare shoot stylists when you are trying to figure out who is the best of them. If you think he has a pro style mind, how does he compare to someone like Alexander Otsuka or other BattlARTS guy? And yes, being good at matwork is important, when you are trying to do matwork. You can't work a 20 minute match that is all dramatic ropebreaks and aggressive striking the entire time. So Takada fills the time in between by lying around. You don't get great matwork from Lawler matches simply because there's no matwork in them... there's a long Lawler/Race title match which has some great matwork, by the way. Takada matches have necessary matwork in them (winning chance being by matwork-related submissions or matwork-related rope breaks) and he's an embarassment at it. Even the Vader matches have their dull bits. About the Onita comparison: is that a reference to him fighting dudes like Albright and Vader? Otherwise I'd like to know a match where Takada's clearly driving things with his Onita-like charisma, preferably a match where's not facing a superworker like Sano or Tamura.

OJ, you should check out: Tenryu vs. Isao Takagi and Tenryu/Kawada vs. Kabuki/Mighty Inoue. He doesn't have the punches and toe kicks at all in AJPW but these are probably his most WAR-like performances in AJ. In fact, I have the theory he took that style from Kabuki.

I was entirely referring to his matwork there. I pay attention whenever I'm watching shootstyle. When you're dull that is not going to last long... the last Takada match I watched was vs. Sano and I remember Takada pretty blatantly being a stiff during the grappling sections and Sano literally dragging him through the match. Heck, the finish to the Fujiwara/Takada match in 1990 is Fujiwara being unconscious, waking up and then submitting Takada because Takada was apparently too dumb to lock in a proper submission on a knocked out veteran... which makes me wonder is Takada a buffoon when it comes to the mat, or is it his gimmick that he's a buffon? Eitherways if you are shootstylist and you want to qualify for a top 100 all time in my eyes you should be good at matwork as it makes up most shootstyle matches. I get what you are saying about his strikes, I like the Vader matches, but if we are going by a) aggressive striking and ability to create drama in a shootstyle match what does Takada have that ranks him above guys like Wataru Sakata, Hiroyuki Ito, Ryuki Ueyama? Speaking about pure ability there.

I'm neutral to the Finlay late WoS and NJPW stuff. I really like his work in germany and austria which sets the tone for the Regal feud. There is a match against Schumann from the EWF french TV show that is really stiff and completely outstanding from anything else on that show. Some of his stuff there is fairly junior-ish, so I guess people here won't like it as much, but I also like him vs. 2 Cold Scorpio, vs. Liger and vs. El Samurai in NJPW.

Takada is falling asleep on the mat way too much in my eyes for me to see it like that, really. Is he really feeding holds when he's just a shitty matworker? Atleast Cena will look like he's actually fighting. I like some Takada matches but a lot of the time he's really bland to me. Not as bad as Minoru Tanaka, though.

Common, there's nothing wrong with the Hansen or Vader matches. And the Joe match is all Joe blowing it. I also recall Misawa got the best possible match out of Bison Smith.

There's some 2000s Tenryu stuff where he works as a heel outsider. Couple tags in AJPW and his work in NOAH in particular, especially a tag with Akiyama against Kobashi and Shiozaki. I could see that being worth checking out for you if you are into him working as a prick.

OJ what would be an example of a match where they pummel eachother just enough? IIRC that Tenryu/Yatsu match was stiff as a tree and had just enough pummeling. I recall Yatsu hitting lots of great offense and trying to damage Tenryus equilibrium and Tenryu angrily attacking his kidneys.

I really liked this when I first saw it and it holds up very well on rewatch. The matwork won't make you forget your fancier RINGS bouts, but they created a nice intensity and snap with the constant scrambling for chokes, armbars and aggressive pin attempts. The meat is in they story they are telling. Lots of neat learned spots, aswell as establishing early on that locking up alone with Yoshida is dangerous. Yagi discovers the bandaged arm on Yoshida and goes after it with a variety of flying armbars, until she has the veteran with her back against the wall. Really liked the bit where Yoshida abandons the ropes in order to reverse the armbar but Yagi changes position and it looks like Yoshida has screwed herself. Brutal choke to finish this. Yoshidas defensive style here was pretty great, really. One of the best bouts of the year.

Match recs for her? Only know her as veteran worker who feuded with Sonoko Kato.

Well, I think Meiko can't be faulted for the style she is working. Do you think her matches like that Hojo match would be better if they were worked like a 1993 match? She doesn't really have the opponents to do that, so she has found her own formula that she can stick anyone into and work it out. That 90s style is fucking dead and let's be real going back and watching the matches you can tell why. Can't fault a worker for seeing the pitfalls and taking a new, better route. So I guess this goes to comparing apples and oranges and I think comparing apples and oranges is necessary for this kind of list. The same goes for Casas - I mean give him a break, he's 50 years old, he's not going to do a super intense 30 minute matwork clinic anymore nor is CMLL going to let him. His shtick-ladden arena mexico appearances aren't that different from his 90s work in places like Monterrey anyways. EDIT: Actually I misread that about Casas, but it's not like being the best in the world or in a top 15 in 2015 means you are anything special.

Out of curiousity, do you think Hokuto and Kandori are also non-traditional joshi workers?

Mimi Hagiwara/Rimi Yokota/Victoria Fujimi v. Tenjin Masami/Masumi Sukizaki/Cheryl Day Ah, Devil Masami. Cool to see her so young. This was mostly heels bashing the fuck out of the faces. It felt a little like lucha except with real quick tags and girls running in to break up pinfalls. Yokota and Mimi decide to slow things down a little by doing some armwork but they quickly go back to the fast paced action. Amusing blown spot shortly before the finish where Yokota crossbody blocks Sukizaki's back. I imagine there's an indy worker somewhere using that more or less ironically as a signature move. Fujimi was the best worker in the match, mostly due to her fire and more good chunky girl offense. Ayumi Hori/Rimi Yokota/Victoria Fujimi v. Raquel Rios/Norma Gomez/Yumi Ikeshita (September? 1979) More of the same I guess. Except this also had Yumi Ikeshita who was hellbent on beating the fuck out of everything she met. Goodness gracious what a beating. This was shorter and one-sided. Yokota kind of blends in with the other girls in these tags. Ikeshita wins this with the most hellish Owen Driver. Rimi Yokota v. Mimi Hagiwara (December 1979) This was a damn good matchup. Yokota was in tremendous shape here, especially next to skinny Mimi Hagiwara. Yokota puts in a real beating, working absolutely heelish by biting and pulling hair, but also doesn't forget to show off her holds and put Hagiwara in her place with that beautiful vertical tiger suplex. It was closer to Terry Rudge than Monster Ripper. Yokota really cranks in her holds and delivers some blowaway great legwork, while Hagiwara performed really nicely working underneath. Hagiwara's selling of the leg and graceful comeback attempts were awesome. Can't decide what I liked more, Hagiwara desperately going for a small package only for Yokota to roll through and once again punch the fuck out of her leg, or Yokota calmly briding out of a weak pin attempt from her worn out opponent and continueing the beating. Last cover was thing of beauty. Damn good TV bout here.

LA Park would be near the top of my list.

What are the best Kansai matches then?

Satomura obvious carryjobs include vs. a very green Kana in 2010, vs. way over the hill Tamura also in 2010, vs. Genki in 2004, Hojo matches mentioned, vs. Nanae Takahashi, vs. Kimura in 2006, etc. These are all opponents who don't really have a lot of good matches outside that. Hojo really can't do anything well except selling and all her non-Satomura matches I've seen are crap. Not saying Satomura is a Kawada-tier superworker dragging the Gary Albrights of this world into classics, as most joshi workers are game to some degree and girls like Aja or Kato turn into different workers when they face Meiko. But for me it takes a certain confinement for the style to work and Satomura sets that more consistently and better than damn near anyone else. Again I'm talking about individual performance and not sheer volume or workrate or whatever. I've never seen an individual performance from Toyota, Inoue, Kansai etc. that comes any close to the stuff Satomura does in her average match, not in 1993 or any other time. Atleast not in terms of what I want from a worker, that is good selling, timing, execution, presence, etc. In fact I am surprised OJ mentions Kansai carrying an entire company when I never thought Kansai was very special outside of a singles match against Yamada maybe. I'll probably have to look deeper into it.

Aja and Meiko are pretty close for me. Kansai I don't really like. Kyoko is very hit or miss for me and she has a lot of real crap on her resume. I love Kandori, but she doesn't have exactly a ton of great matches and she's kinda one dimensional. Can anyone explain how on earth Kansai and Kyoko are better than Satomura at anything? Kansai doesn't even a better arsenal of strikes than Meiko.

Is there anything Hokuto clearly does better than Meiko? The only thing I can think of would be storytelling. Even then, I don't think Satomura ever had an angle going on like Hokuto with the knee or the feud with Kandori. Meiko also never had an opponent as good as Kandori. Not saying Meiko has better matches than anyone in 1993 had, but in terms of execution, selling, timing, pacing, I don't think there's anyone clearly better than her. She also may have outworked Hokuto in their singles match (which was coincidentally Hokutos best match in a while)

The only thing I don't like about her is how liberally she tends to bust out her Death Valley Bomb. Especially in that recent Hojo match. What a weird tendencie for someone who notably turned basic moves like sleepers, armdrags and european uppercuts into holy shit spots. Anyways she is quickly approaching Finlay/Regal/Danielson tier for me, in terms of consistency and giving several workes their career matches. Her execution is high end and most importantly because she knows about timing her matches don't get old. And her genuine intensity is awesome and what makes her truely stand out. Who says 2000s joshi sucks when she's better than anyone in 1993?

Of all the chubby indy nerds he's the best. Like Punk he benefits a lot from being brought up in IWA Mid South around guys like Bull Pain and Tracy Smothers. It gave him a serious advantage in instincts. Unlike someone like Cesaro he was good as a chubby nerd and he wasn't afraid to try different things. His last man standing match with Eddie Kingston is a really great mid 2000s indy take on an 80s arena brawl. His performance in CZW vs. RoH cage of death was picture perfect. When he changed his look to something more polished he started carrying himself in a different way in order to get heel heat, as in "he dropped his vinyl pants! he's betraying indy wrestling!" It added a nice different note to his matches, as people really wanted to see Necro Butcher beat the piss out of this brat and splash blood on his fancy new gear. I give him a ton of credit for having awesome matches in many different environments and with opponents like Hidaka, Togo, or Martin Stone that he never met before. In some way he's the bizarro Danielson. His WWE run not working out may be his demise for this list, but his indy performances since then has been a lot of fun and I love the fact that he is a lot more over in NOAH now that he got fat.

No, it was an earlier match of theirs. I think Eddie had long hair. Anyways, I watched a few 90s Benoit matches. The Spring Stampede tag is a pimped match I've actually never seen before. It was kind of big dumb poor man's Fantastics/Can-Ams tag from AJPW and doesn't really do anything for Benoit. I imagine it has status because it was the first tag of it's kind in the US. I could do without this type of match to be honest. Benoits NJPW stuff kind of exposes his blandness. He just seems to be going back and forth between moves. The Sasuke match is kind of a move exhibition. The Kanemoto match was "technically good" but it felt like watching a computer simulate a match. After that I saw Benoit vs. Finlay which was a sprint. Benoit works like junior in it. He throws a mean chop but Finlay absolutely smokes him with a stiff as piss beating that Benoit doesn't really answer. Then I saw a Regal match. Benoit seemed to come alive a little in that. It was still tough for him because Regal was ridiculously awesome in that and all over the place with his Snake Pit-fu. He even had one of the best ways to eat a tombstone piledriver I've ever seen. Benoits best showing in the bunch may have been against Eddie. He controls much of the match and modifies some of his moves to work over Eddies arm. He also absolute obliterates Eddie with the most ridiculous of powerbombs. Even in 1995 you could tell Eddie was different from everyone else (especially juniors) with the way he did things and would slow it down, or even the way he did something as small as a cover. Benoit working dominant was a lot better than move trading Benoit. So far it seems Benoit suffered from 90s ills. I'll probably dive a little more into his WCW work and watch some longer matches because he looks a lot more tolerable there than in his japan stuff. You can tell the Dynamite Kid influence. It also looks like he wasn't as much of an assbeater as he would become later in WWE and instead more of a typical junior, which is a negative for me. Looking forward to watching him vs. Sullivan and Scorpio, though.

He has the epic El Dandy match and a handful of good trios showings. So, about as much of a case as roughly 70 other lucha guys.

I've seen a Benoit-Eddie match from WWE that was almost shockingly bad. And Eddie was able to carry Edge to surprisingly good bout around the same time. I guess part of it was the booking, but they just couldn't meet up and did some dated pseudo-WoS work only for a directionless second half that couldn't decide between junior match and Eddies cheating. I'll check out some of the mentioned 90s stuff, however.