W2BTD

Kayfabe he always says Attitude, Charisma, Heart

Myself & Rich will be interviewing ACH for the podcast Thursday night. Listener questions are always encouraged and we will get to as many as we can. A heads up. This is ACH's second time on the show, and we already covered his start & early career interview #1. That interview was done just days before he signed with ROH, so If you'd like to know something about his early career, i'd suggest posting questions because we probably won't talk about that stuff on our own.

I normally write these reviews while i'm watching live, to shield myself from other opinions. I could not stay awake during this show, and watched the final three matches when I woke up the next morning. When I looked around the internet after writing the review, I was pretty surprised to see others loved Ishii/Naito as much as I did. Initially I had Ishii/Naito at ****3/4 in my notes, but when doing the write up I bumped it to five because despite the (very) minor gripes I had the bottom line is that was the most fun I had watching wrestling in a long time, probably since the great Dragon Gate tag from Kobe World. This shit is supposed to be fun, and sometimes we lose sight of that. This match had me popping off my couch, feeling real emotion, and loving life for 20 minutes. Five stars. I never ever like a match as much as other people do when it's hyped before I watch it. Ever. My expectations always kill it for me. So I get it.

http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2014/02/11/new-japan-new-beginning-osaka-211-review/

http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2014/02/0...ginning-review/

He's in a good spot, so I would imagine that if they want him bad enough, they have to play ball with him to some extent. I'm sure he's not hot on the idea of rotting a year of his career away in Orlando when he probably enjoys his lifestyle as it is right now and doesn't need the risk of wasting a year and then possibly flaming out when he gets called up. At that point he's two years older and the landscape could be drastically different in New Japan. If I were him, it would be main roster or bust, unless it's his life long passion to make it there, in which case you do what it takes.

It's a shame he never found a way to do some extended work there, though, because I feel like he could have had a poor man's Bryan-type appeal. I saw him live many times in 01-02, and the guy had an aura and a very natural connection with a crowd. Of course, I also think the most likely scenario would have been him ending up the way Taz did as a wrestler there, because WWE was just not going to let him use his natural character at his size. They were not going to let his little guy kick the shit out of and put holds on, say, Kane. Actually, the Taz comparison makes me think Low Ki was really just a couple years too late to be an amazing ECW guy. I think in an alternate universe, most if not all of the guys who ended up making a name in ROH would have ended up in ECW. In fact, I think ECW would have for the most part evolved into something very similar to what ROH came to be. "Workrate" was the next thing to sweep that level of the business, almost immediately after ECW closed up shop. Heyman would have followed that trend and evolved.

According to the latest Observer, international (meaning non Japan) iPPV buys are topping out at around 1,500. That's not only the U.S., but Europe and everywhere else too. They are doing about 100,000 total worldwide for the biggest shows, which is great obviously, but 99.9% of it is coming from Japan. New Japan has grown exponentially in Japan since 2011, no doubt, but the growth abroad is still tiny and really just the hardest of the hardcore.

Totally plausible that he doesn't need another WWE paycheck for the rest of his life. First if all he'll make royalties until he's dead. And he's been there for almost 9 years, mostly on top, so the royalties won't be chump change. He can call his own shots and continue to make money in wrestling if he wants, whether its conventions, Japan, indies, really anywhere he feels like it. He can do outside ventures or a podcast or try to get into TV or whatever. He owns real estate. He'll never want for money.

I think it was from November 16. Thanks guys. I know they've had two recent TV matches, and I was wondering if the one that aired about two weeks ago was filmed in November, December, or January for year end list purposes. I really liked it.

Speaking of which, can anybody tell me when the most recent televised Kincaid/Americos match was actually filmed?

Here is what I can say. He's not booked for New Japan yet. Let me put it to you this way. The Young Bucks have already pulled out of their two New Orleans bookings.

New Japan "Invasion Attack" is WrestleMania weekend, so i'd be wary about buying tickets to the wrestling show if you are primarily interested in the Lance Hoyt vs Chris Masters match.

I think you can do "a lot of stuff", whether it's innovative moves, stiff blows, big bumps, etc, and still have a well structured, compelling, & logical match. I'm not advocating for spot fests. Bryan didn't work that way. And most of the time, neither did Generico. And personally for me, there is nothing that pops me more when watching a match than a well placed fighting spirit spot. To each his own.

I'll be completely honest, a lot of Bryan's WWE stuff loses me. Particularly during the Team Hell No era when I flat out didn't want to watch him and even fast forwarded a ton of his stuff because I was so tired of it. It's not because it's ever bad, it's always at worst good, but I feel like he's worked the same TV match for the last two years when he falls into those formulaic WWE signature move patterns. When he's in there with somebody dynamic like Rollins, who bumps like a maniac for his comebacks, that's when i'm all in. I never had that problem with ROH Daniel Bryan. The Bray Wyatt match at the Rumble to me was by far his best WWE match yet. I gave that ****3/4. It had a different pace, a different feel, and just when you thought they were going into the same old WWE finishing sequence, they turned it upside down and Wyatt cut everything off. The timing & pace were outstanding. That was peak Bryan in this style.

I think you answered your own statement there: Sami hasn't really had a chance to have his best match yet. He's still in developmental for heaven's sake. Televised development, sure, but still development. I mean you said it yourself, Daniel Bryan, a guy who was the 'best wrestler in the world' for a while beforehand, took until 2012 to start reaching his potential in the ring in WWE, which coincidentally is when he started to work main events. In WWE for the most part you need opportunities and time in order to deliver on a high end level, at least much moreso than the indies where guys have the freedom to routinely go above and beyond on the undercard. I really prefer WWE Zayn over Indies Generico. He did way too much and took too many nasty bumps. Now he does less and is over just as much. Here's my stance on the nasty bumps, which i'm sure people will get all over me for, but hey, i'm ready for the heat. It's not my body. Now, when things get too uncomfortable to watch, like Big Japan death matches or old school CZW stuff, I get turned off and won't watch. But otherwise, it may sound callous, but it's not my problem if these guys choose to put themselves in risk of long term damage. For me, Generico never crossed that line. As far as doing less and getting over, that sort of speaks to working a style that suits your environment. Good on him if he can do less and have it mean the same, but how does that equal more entertaining matches for me as a fan as compared to when he was doing more? I watch wrestling to see action. Maybe it's my personal taste, but i'd rather watch Generico do more in DGUSA or DDT rather than Zayn do less in NXT. Selfish? Sure. But I watch this stuff to be entertained. Why would I want to see less, assuming of course it's structured well? Generico was in some of the most well structured matches I saw over the last 3 or 4 years. The Kenny Omega match from December 2012 in DDT. The Kota Ibushi trilogy from DDT in the same year. Some of those matches featured lots of "stuff", but none were spot fests. I doubt he'll even top those matches in WWE. Just like Bryan won't top 2006. Because that stuff is flat out great. He can be great in WWE (and I know that he will be because he's too good not to be), in a totally different way. Just like his crazy brawls with Steen were great in a different style. To me just doing less won't really make him better, just like what Bryan is doing now isn't better than his peak indie stuff (i'd argue it isn't as good overall because of the formulaic structure of a lot of WWE matches). Smarter? Maybe. But you have to work for your crowd, and the great ones like Zayn & Bryan can get over anywhere and do anything.

Touche. As someone who for some reason refuses to stop watching, that's pretty much true, except in rare cases like Austin Aries. While Okada was there, he worked a lot of Xplosion matches with the guys you would think of as the undercard workhorse types (by TNA standards, please work with me here) and even in those 5-8 minute matches he really showed nothing. And trust me, I was looking for glimmers of hope because I wanted him to do well. I'm also a guy who loves the B-show enhancement role types (which is essentially what Okada was), like Stevie Richards in the WWECW days who I thought was fantastic, for example. Okada wasn't awful, but he was just...there. At the risk of derailing this into another split thread or a split thread of a split thread, i'm really hoping the network eventually puts up the B & C shows like Velocity, Worldwide, etc. I eat that stuff up. Just wrestling, usually with cool undercard workers, and little to no bullshit.

I agree that Tajiri had the best sustained run and was treated the best overall, but Hakushi did peak higher because he got to do a serious WWE Title program with Bret Hart, and was pushed harder than Tajiri was prior to that and up to that point. Then he sunk down the card and ended up in the lower mid card with Horowitz & Skip.

Okada didn't have a single good match in TNA. His best stuff was flat and uninspiring. Then he had a flat out terrible match with YOSHI-HASHI at WK6. So it was a universal opinion that his push was a huge mistake, and even after the Tanahashi match people thought Tanahashi carried him. We know the rest. So maybe sometimes it's confidence or motivation. I don't know what Gedo & Jado saw, but nobody else was seeing it. I can't compare 2012 Okada to 2012 Rush because I saw every Okada match that surfaced, and probably 2 or 3 Rush matches total.

To the bold, nothing. What i'm saying is, I don't feel like he's inherently improved. I feel like he's adjusted to his surroundings. I suppose it's maybe the same thing, I don't know. And I agree that the indies have not been great for a few years now. Obviously they've been poached by WWE, and to a lesser extent, TNA (well, really just Aries at the elite level).

I always found Brodie Lee to be a bit stiff (not in the working way, but in the not very nimble way) & awkward. In fact, even after he was called up I thought the entire Wyatt Family was stinking it up badly in ring. But lately it's as if the light bulb went on for him (and to some extent, Rowan as well but I still think Rowan is largely shit). I really think he's developed into something fantastic. He can brawl, he can wrestle, his shit is believable, he can sell, he can do it all. If it hadn't come so late in the year, I would have voted him most improved. I think all three Wyatt's have benefited from being in there with great workers every night.

Completely disagree on Bourne, who was neutered in WWE. Nothing he's done can touch his Dragon Gate stuff where he was a whole different level of dynamic even while not being featured. Also completely disagree on Ambrose. I could never get into him on the indie scene and didn't understand the fuss. Now, i'm a huge fan. Same for Harper. Both of those guys have improved in WWE. The people who are arguing Cesaro as top five in the world are people who prefer the WWE style. Again, this is really a style debate, nothing more. I can't be convinced guys like Cesaro, Bryan, and Zayn, who were already great and elite (Bryan was legit best in the world at one point and Zayn to me was easily top five and you could argue #1 before he signed), have improved. It's more like they have adapted because they are great. They are working for the room, as they should. If Bryan got cut tomorrow, he'd be back to working whatever style suited his next landing spot. El Generico had a run where he was having the best match on every single show he was on over a span of something like two years, and doing it in like a half dozen promotions in multiple continents. There is no way i'm buying an argument that he's better now based on a dozen 12 minute NXT matches. Not a chance. Same guy, new style.

I would sure hope Punk is a better wrestler now, he's been in WWE for like 9 years, smack dab in his prime. I don't think Bryan is any better now. Again, I'd argue I enjoy his matches less. And I enjoy the fuck out of his matches now. But I prefer the style he was working previously. Bryan has dumbed it down for the style, which again sounds like a complain but really isn't. He can't do 40 minute matches with small room psychology in basketball arenas in front of kids. It has to be turnbuckle flip-missed clothesline-come off-hit the second one. It is what it is. And he's still excelling because he's great and was able to adjust, which amazingly if you go back many, many people thought he wouldn't be able to. Which looks incredibly dumb in hindsight.

KENTA's four signature moves are currently being used by Punk & Bryan. Half of those he invented, yet he wouldn't be able to use any of them. He would have to drop all of his stiff kicks & strikes as well. Basically, everything he does would be out the window, and he would have to completely reinvent himself from the ground up, even more so than the usual veteran guy who comes in. I don't see how it could possibly work out, never mind attitude issues, language barrier, size bias, injury history, and everything else working against him. Personally I think he's an all time great bell to bell, but there is no way he can overcome all of that.

I don't agree that the system improves (all of) these guys. It's a different style. If you prefer the WWE style to the indie style, then you are going to think they've improved. If Daniel Bryan went back to ROH or DGUSA tomorrow, he's go back to working a style more suited to those places. Some would like it better, some wouldn't. I can tell you right now that as great as Sami Zayn has been, he hasn't had a single match in WWE that would sniff his Top 50 in my opinion. Maybe a little unfair because he hasn't been able to go long, but up until 2012, same for Bryan. Bryan's best year, by far, is still 2006. And I really liked his 2013. He has however fallen into the signature move/WWE pattern style as of late. That sounds like a knock but it isn't. That's what they want and that's how they work. It isn't better or worse than what he used to do. It's just different.