W2BTD

There is no point addressing this. Seriously. People like different things. I can list stuff, and it won't matter. EDIT - also, I never, ever called him a "historical draw". Don't know where you got that or if it was even being attributed to me. Fine. Niche fetishism within a niche. Sigh. Anyway, I knew this would happen. I like this site because I genuinely enjoy the alternate perspectives, so i'm bowing out unless somebody posted while I was posting this, and i'll politely respond.

How does the fact you agree with this point make it a "strawman" argument? Do you even understand what that means? It's a legitimate argument, made in good faith, that addresses your point directly. It's not a "strawman." What makes this a "historical run?" What does historical even mean in this context? What is the standard for determining who is eligible to vote? Some of the voters seem to be proxy votes sought out to validate certain opinions. They don't seem to be people grounded in a historical appreciation of wrestling. To your first point, it's a strawman to say he'd be the 12th best worker in All Japan, even if I agreed with it (I don't), because I like most of those guys a great deal and think most of them belong in the HOF. So who cares? To the second point, historical in this context means his historical run of incredible matches. Roughly two straight years of elite caliber main events that have blown away everything else in the world. Which, you don't happen to agree with. Fine. You can like whatever you want, man. My point, is that 60% of HOF voters probably do agree, and will either this year or one of the next couple.

He works a style that HOF workers prefer? I didn't know he works like Steamboat. Or Stevens. Or Destroyer. Or Jumbo. Or Kawada in his prime. Or Debiase (who in 1996 got in for his work). Or... Serious, how many HOF Workers work like Tanahashi? I mean, I helped select and/or voter for the overwhelming majority of the HOF Workers in the WON HOF. There's a slight disconnect if say 50%+ (i.e. generally prefer) don't strike me as working Tanahashi-style. John I'll tell you what. He's getting in. And most of the guys goodhelmut just posted, including "working genius" Buddy Rose, are never getting in. Three of them won't for sure. So yeah. That's what i'm talking about when I say the voters are much higher on his work than they are of the niche fetishism examples being thrown around here. That may be hard to swallow, but hey, it is what it is. This isn't even some "who is better" circular argument anymore. It's now about what the voters actually do. Somebody like Regal is not going to sniff the HOF. Neither will Rose. Tanahashi is getting in, bank on it, and based on the passive aggressive bashing of his drawing ability, you tell me why it's going to happen. I'll give you one guess.

Nipping at the heels of those two may be a bit strong, but he's getting there. Honestly this is pointless, as I knew it would be. I can list a bunch of matches, and you'll tell me they were shit. This all comes down to preference, but the fact is, he's going to get in (whether it's this year or next or the one after), and it will be predicated mostly on his work. Because that's the style of work the HOF workers generally prefer. And he's a top level worker who churns out classic after classic, every time out, and is on a historical run of doing so.

How is it a "strawman"? You said he might be one of the best wrestlers of all-time. I'll suggest, with respect, that he doesn't have shit on Tsuyoshi Kikuchi. His matches aren't as over, don't draw as many people and aren't as good as the matches in classic AJPW, which is the gold standard of modern pro wrestling. No one really measures to that standard today. Which is fine. No one is Michael Jordan. But this guy isn't LeBron James. He's Harold Minor. It's a strawman, because I have no issue with that era of All Japan, and I in fact agree with your assessment of it as the gold standard of modern wrestling. I disagree with the rest of your thoughts. I feel you are seriously underrating Tanahashi. From that era, i'd rate him below Misawa & Kobashi for sure, and I would accept an argument for about a half dozen others, but would respectfully disagree and take Tanahashi over the rest. I believe he's nipping at the heels of Misawa & Kobashi at this point, and I also think 2011-current New Japan is now nipping at the heels of early 90's All Japan as well in terms of overall quality. If you don't think he "has shit" on Kikuchi, that's fine, but we're just way far apart on this then. And I like Kikuchi a lot. Tanahashi is an all time great. This run of quality rivals anybody, any time.

Also, this statement is false, because there are people who have gotten in on work alone, and on their first ballot. If these guys were deemed good enough in the ring by the voters, they would have also.

-Work alone isn't getting Tanahashi in, -But it certainly could. I know this is going to open a gigantic can of worms, and I realize there is probably no good reason to do this because i'm clearly on the wrong side of the proverbial tracks, but sometimes on this site there is a severe lack of self awareness of the niche fetishism for people like Rose, Dundee, etc. If you asked me if i'd rather watch my house burn down or watch a typical Dundee southern style punch fest, i'd think hard before settling in for the match. Memphis is about as appealing to me as GLOW or lightning tube death matches (hint: I don't like those things), so i'll chalk that up to style. But Rose I like, he's fine as a small territory heel, actually very good in fact, but don't pretend as if Rose as some slam dunk awesome top ten worker is a universal opinion. It isn't. Tanahashi is churning out non stop ****+ star stuff at a pace that hasn't been matched since Misawa/Kobashi. This run is legendary, and he wasn't chopped liver before it started. He's on a completely different level than somebody like Bill Dundee or Regal, and I love Regal. But Tanahashi's worst singles match this year rival's Regal's best stuff ever. Anyway, this is all subjective. I feel like Dylan does when he wanders over to "my" side of the tracks. My post probably reads as a troll, but that's not the intent. I just don't think the work of people like Dundee or Rose is what your typical HOF voter looks at as HOF level great. Tanahashi's stuff is.

The All Japan thing is a strawman here, because I have no issue with the All Japan guys, think the ones that are in belong, and would vote for a few others that aren't.

Are you serious here? He would have been like the 12th best guy in 1990's AJPW. Many of whom are in, and obviously I don't agree with that ranking anyway. I think this recent two year stretch solidifies him as a Top 5 big match wrestler of all time. He always delivers, and has produced the best match of several people's career in the process, which is always a key measure for me and something that only Daniel Bryan can say as a contemporary (Yujiro, Karl Anderson, Okada, Suzuki, to name a few). He said 12th best. So is Satoru Asako or whoever that would be a hall of Famer? I don't know, ask him. I don't agree with his assessment to begin with.

He is miscategorized, which hurts him. I would vote for him if he were on the US/Canada ballot. I abstain from that mish mash "Miscellaneous" category.

Are you serious here? He would have been like the 12th best guy in 1990's AJPW. Many of whom are in, and obviously I don't agree with that ranking anyway. I think this recent two year stretch solidifies him as a Top 5 big match wrestler of all time. He always delivers, and has produced the best match of several people's career in the process, which is always a key measure for me and something that only Daniel Bryan can say as a contemporary (Yujiro, Karl Anderson, Okada, Suzuki, to name a few).

Agree with Dave completely on Tanahashi. I voted for him without any thought. For me, he gets in on work alone if he never even drew a penny. Toss in being the top star during a big turnaround and the iPPV stuff, and it becomes an uncontested layup. Can't fathom a no vote argument that would sway me even .01%. Okada is on a path to be even better. In fact, I think Okada is slightly better already. He does some things at a higher level than Tanahshi, and he's only 25 years old. He may not peak for a decade.

If you or anyone else blogs about the book and mentions that very thing prepare to be levelled with the criticism you are too inside the bubble given the experience I had with one of his fans recently. That's the "out" Shoemaker gets with his stuff. He doesn't have to be even close to 100% accurate, because his tongue is just enough in cheek to play the "lighten up dude, it's just wrasslin'" card. He has a niche, and it lies someplace in between the (very) casuals and the hardcores. He walks the line brilliantly and his writing style is easy to digest and appeals to the masses.

Not exactly a Dragon gate haven around these parts, but here you go: http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2013/11/0...ny-2013-review/ The prologue is basically a book if you are into that sort of thing. Anyway, very good show, with one must see match, and Dragon Gate now has an exotico.

I watched this for the first time yesterday, because I never thought to look for it for whatever reason. Great match. I know this is a POC thread, but it lead me into a Rogers wormhole, and he's a lot better than people over the years had led me to believe.

http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2013/10/2...le-1025-review/

http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2013/10/1...estling-review/ Card was nothing special until the semi & main. Nak/Maru was great, and the main event was the best Tanahashi/Okada match yet, an absolute all time classic.

Yeah, I have no idea what Meltzer was going on about all night with the attendance, the place looked full.

Best of this era....okay. Oh, without question. Closing in on possibly ever. Welp, after tonight, in my mind this debate is over. They just had their best match yet, and I gave two of the previous five 5-stars. Forget this era, the only rivalry I rate higher period at this point is Misawa/Kobashi. Tonights match was a god damn masterpiece. I'm out of adjectives.

This was great, thanks for posting it. Watts is always a fascinating interview subject.

Some good New Japan & NWA insight here from Lance, particularly about this years G1, and how the locker room has responded to the big Okada push over the last two years. We also talk about his WWE run, in particular the story behind his ill fated haircut, and whether the talent was aware of the infamous 2011 WWE Superstars phenomenon. http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2013/10/0...-wrestling-nwa/

Here is the audio review: http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2013/10/0...ground-preview/

Best of this era....okay. Oh, without question. Closing in on possibly ever.

I really can't fathom an argument for Edge. I'm not voting for Batista either, but I totally understand why somebody would. Edge, I just don't get it.

"Overall, a good show with a skippable first half. One of the weaker major New Japan iPPV’s, but I would still recommend it for hardcores, and some of the stuff in the second half is worth seeking out for everybody else. I’m not sure how I feel about Tanahashi/Okada VI coming this soon, but if any promotion has earned “let it play out” status with their booking, it’s New Japan." http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2013/09/2...ruction-review/