Microstatistics

Top 10 right now (Alphabetical) Akira Hokuto Daniel Bryan Eddie Guerrero El Hijo del Santo El Satanico Jushin Liger Kenta Kobashi Kiyoshi Tamura Shawn Michaels Yoshiaki Fujiwara Other Strong Contenders: Bret Hart, Brock Lesnar, Daisuke Ikeda, Jumbo Tsuruta, Jun Akiyama, Tatsumi Fujinami, Volk Han

Kandori is one of those wrestlers who is both overrated and underrated, IMO. She used to be overlooked and unfairly dismissed (e.g, previous Dreamslam reviews claimed Hokuto carried her, which is clear nonsense). But the pendulum might have swung too far in the other direction as some people now claim she actually outworked Hokuto. Makai Club #1 did a good job capturing her strengths. I'll probably rank her but in the bottom half.

Andre the Giant vs. King Kong would have been a better match. Kong understands the concept of selling better than Hansen.

Great topic. I feel predefining selection criteria is a key element as it allows prioritization of what people truly value and makes the actual ranking feel less arbitrary. Matt D's approach is an extremely rigorous one and I respect the commitment behind it but something like that might not be suitable for everyone. For instance, in general, I am going to heavily emphasize high-end output, since that to me is the most important thing in wrestling. It won't be as simple as "who has the most great matches" but will be sort of like a top-down approach and account for more objective metrics (variety of opponents, settings worked, roles played, styles mastered) to intangible, subjective components (contribution to match greatness through selling, offense etc.). This would help factor different elements into consideration while keeping the focus on the main thing, i.e., quality and volume of top matches.

Another guy who I ranked 30-50 spots too low in 2016. As people have mentioned, one of the most impressive peaks ever, which alone should be enough to get him into my Top 50. But he has a respectable amount of good stuff both before and after as well that boosts his case.

Ohtani is going to be a priority for me as well. I did rank him in 2016 but far too low (bottom 20) and almost entirely on his 1996 work. Just based on his 1997-1998 run (which includes underrated stuff vs. Tajiri, Yasuraoka and strong performances in tags) and a couple of 2000s matches, I suspect he should be easy Top 50. He has promising stuff pre-1996 too. With a more complete evaluation, he might even be Top 30.

Honestly, the "I have a strong immune system so don't need to worry about anything" argument you see from COVID-skeptics/deniers and anti-vaxxers might be their dumbest talking point, which is really saying something. Yes, the elderly are more susceptible but this is a novel coronavirus that has shown to affect everyone and you can't predict how you will response to it, no manner how "healthy" you are. In fact, an immune system overreaction is a serious concern as a triggered cytokine storm will likely kill you. Not to mention long-term effects, particularly pulmonary fibrosis. Anyways, this is just me shouting into the wind but the fact that there is still so much ignorant resistance is quite sad.

Yeah, this one is really pushing it. She's not bad at all but I'm not sure if she's currently even a Top 15 women wrestler in WWE.

I was the high vote on Ikeda in 2016 and am proud of it. I know most prefer Ishikawa but Ikeda was an all time great seller, had incredibly brutal offense and worked really well as a heel or face. Was good in a pro-style setting (NOAH) as well.

There was a brief debate about this in the GME threads but I feel his post-1989 drop-off is way overblown. In fact, I think he could be a Top 100 contender just based on his post-prime. Throw in a 11 year peak and his versatility and you have a Top 20 guy.

I had Tenryu at #1 in 2016 for the reasons bossrock outlined. I have a lot of regrets about my 2016 ballot but putting Tenryu at the top is probably not one of them. Everytime I watch a match with him, I can understand my reasoning at the time. Still, this time around he wouldn't be nearly that high. Unlike other GOAT contenders, he is hurt most by the fact that he lacks that collection of all time classics. He still has a healthy number of great matches, which makes him an easy Top 20 contender but he has fallen out of truly elite company for me.

I agree with Loss too. Takada was perhaps the biggest sufferer of the adverse end of the pendulum effect in 2016. I don't think he is a super worker or anything but he has been in too many great matches to completely dismiss him. Yes, many were against great workers but they were hardly carry jobs as Takada more than held up his end (sometimes even outperformed his opponent). I'm sort of in a similar boat as elliott. Takada is a guy who should make it but isn't a lock per se.

I like Goldberg, though he is probably more of a Top 200 guy. Based on what I've seen from late 90s WCW, I can't say I agree with the old assessments that he was green and couldn't work. He had pretty killer offense as well as a solid understanding of timing and selling. Enjoyed his WWE run too. I still maintain the Taker match is one of the most memorable in recent years.

This is an excellent point.

I'd argue lucha brawling is far too formulaic and constrained to be considered the "greatest wrestling ever". This thread has sort of turned into "What are the greatest eras/promotions of wrestling", which I guess is the best way to tackle this topic. It's an interesting philosophical question.

There was a time when ranking Santo over Casas would have been inconceivable to me. But after the 2019 and 2020 GME projects, Santo and Satanico seem to be in a league of their own when it comes to the luchadors. Santo is one of the definitive output guys. He was slightly formulaic and maybe lacked the touch of someone who emphasizes micro-level details. But he was a great mat worker, a great brawler, a great high-flyer, a great bomb-thrower, worked well in multiple settings, and produced an assortment of great matches over a 25+ year span. Top 10 lock.

The most effortlessly brilliant wrestler I've seen. Eddie could simply do anything and do it well and was a guy who delivered in every setting he was in. I think those gaps in his career do hurt his case somewhat, but Top 10 still seems like a safe bet.

Easy contender for best US wrestler and probably the pick for wrestler of the century. A true student of the game, to use that cliche. I feel his biggest flaw was his insufficient ability to put things together cogently in his matches. If he had converted several of his 30+ minute "epics" from mid-2000s ROH into 15 minute compact and coherent pieces of work, not only would he have finished #1 for me, he might have ran away with that spot. There is a lot of neat stuff in those matches but it's all bits and pieces here and there and holistically means very little. Nevertheless, he still has a tremendous amount of in ring successes and should be a strong Top 10 contender.

Another guy I ranked way too low in 2016. Definite contender for best bumper ever (even if he overdid it at times). But his creativity and ability to construct smart yet memorable matches were probably his biggest strengths. For instance, many of his big 2000s matches share similar themes but were worked in fresh, unique ways. Top 25 contender.

Top 20 lock. Almost certainly the best US-based wrestler of the 1990s. His 1991-1997 prime is absolutely loaded with a plethora of good-great matches against a vast variety of wrestlers. Though, you could penalize him for the brevity of that timeframe, which might be enough to knock him out of Top 10 contention for me. A logical, thoughtful, deliberate wrestler who did follow a template but could mix it up when called upon and was able to gel well with just about anyone.

I royally screwed him over in 2016 but Fujiwara is a top 5 contender this time around. The godfather of one of the great pro wrestling styles and was, at worst, a Top 3 worker within that style. He wasn't a particularly flashy or eye-popping matworker but more than compensated for that with a world-class sense of positioning and movement as well as top notch striking, body language, and facial expressions. He also adapted effortlessly to the more classic pro style and even showed proficiency in a hybrid setting (i.e., UWF 1), more than a decade before that style arguably even existed. Impressive longevity but his peak is the true standout in my eyes with the 15 month stretch from 7/1989 to 10/1990 being one of the most productive runs of any wrestler ever.

A truly unique entity. Killer offense and a special aura but Lesnar's selling, bumping, psychology, and ring awareness are second to none. His 2012-2015 is one of the greatest runs ever in terms of high-end output. Even though Suplex City watered down his approach, there is plenty of good stuff in the 2016-2020-time frame. Strong initial WWE run too. Could make my Top 20, despite the sporadicity.

Alongside Jimmy Redman, I might have become the resident HBK fan. One of the greatest American wrestlers and an easy Top 10 contender. A very good early tag run, the high-end mid-90s peak, and an impressive post-return. Screw HHH at Bad Blood and the Kurt Angle matches, watch the Chris Benoit Raw matches from 2004, or the Batista matches from 2008, or the Chris Masters match from 2005, or the Mr. Kennedy feud, or even the DX blood feud tags etc. He was at his worst when the drama and histrionics were the main emphasis, rather than a complement to the substance (and was maybe at his best in the vice versa scenario). An imaginative and ambitious wrestler who, unlike a lot of his students, possessed the skills , smarts, and grit to pull off his vision of wrestling in the ring.

Kawada's leg selling reputation is the most undeserved in wrestling history. 1 extraordinary performance (12/3/1993) doesn't compensate for multiple wildly inconsistent, if not outright poor, performances. Kobashi was magnitudes better.

The definitive #1 contender. All-time great offensive wrestler, all-time great seller, and probably the best babyface ever. He was also more consistent, durable, adaptable, and smarter than any of his immediate contemporaries. He was hardly perfect though: His meathead, macho showdowns could be dull as hell, Chopbashi was a poor template for modern wrestling (though at least Kobashi had crippling injuries as a legitimate reason to embrace the route) and he occasionally had off matches (the 2003 Nagata match is awful). But, frankly, all of that is immaterial to an extent. His biggest case is simply his output, which might actually dwarf that of any other wrestler.