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Everything posted by HeadCheese
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Rookies clearly better than Senka Akatsuki
HeadCheese replied to Jetlag's topic in Greatest Wrestler Ever
For context I think Senka Akatsuki might be the best rookie year and alot of the wrestlers you mentioned, their rookie years are out my scope of knowledge besides Yuta Oya (who rules!) but, I think Akatsuki is better. Goldberg has a case June 1997 to 1998 - Has a shakey start but, finds his way to being a amazing squash match wrestler. Even in matches that are more competitive Goldberg and are out his comfort zone like the Regal match he improvised well enough to have good input there. Having really cool matches Raven, LA Parka, Yuji Nagata (specifically the Saturday Night match), and Glacier (specifically the Thunder match). If you stretch his debut from September (his first time on tv) to September, he has really fun Hogan. Not sure if there has ever been a non-outside star to pro wrestling who brought more big match feel. Goldberg does have the advantage of the commentary and seemingly most putting him out succeed big. Yuma Anzai (September 2022 to September 2023) might be better rookie than Senka Akatsuki. Other rookie cases might be Katsuhiko Nakajima (2004), Mei Suruga (May 2018 to May 2019), Takuma Fujiwara (2021). I think your caveats are fair but, her input in those matches lift them. She does have the advantage of cross promotion matches (that have an added heat to them) and having a character based on dramatic pinfalls, I feel like she's not just along for the ride, she's hold up her end bringing energy and even lifting the match quality making wrestlers try to match her. I also think Senka Akatsuki with current character feels like a feature not a bug. She is 95% energy and passion than 5% skill, which is what I really enjoy In about rookies. I think the best rookies are the wrestlers 95% energy and passion than 5% skill type or the super rookie a roster of more expirenced wrestlers have to adjust too. -
Making My List Jumbo Tsuruta Jack Brisco Jay Briscoe Jun Kasai John Cena John Morrison Slight Consideration Jeff Hardy Jeff Jarrett Jeremy Wyatt John Tenta Juventud Guerrera
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I asked someone who follows US Deathmatch history wrestling and knows wrestling better than me and really likes Danny Havoc for recommend these matches vs. Andy Sumner - CZW Down With The Sickness 4Ever - A Chris Cash Tribute Show from 9/10/05 Feud vs. Sami Callihan feud - Devil Wears Prada Match (CZW, 9/12/09), Caribbean Pits (CZW, 10/25/09), Nails & Carpet Strip (IWA East Coast, 11/7/09) With as strong recommendation on their- COD match (CZW, 12/12/09) vs. Masada - Gusset Plate (CZW, 7/9/11) Feud vs. Scotty Vortekz - Lighttubes, Ladders & Log Cabin (CZW, 6/9/07), Barefoot Thumbtacks, Bottle Caps & Glass (IWA Mid South, 6/21/08), and 444 Lighttubes (CZW, 6/8/13) vs. Jun Kasai - Ragnarok'n Roll Glass Crush (CZW, 4/9/11) Thumbtack Jack series (They have 11 singles matches between CZW, BJPW, wXw, and various other promotions) vs. Drew Gulak - No Ropes Barbed Wire (CZW, 5/12/12) vs. Brain Damage (CZW, 4/7/07)
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Highly recommend Goldbelt Brian Maxine, he feels like World Of Sport-ified Buddy Rose in actions, with the bumping of UWA Rambo, and toes the line between cartoon but, grounded very well. I'm not huge generally World Of Sports rule system but, him and Steve Grey really pop out at me. Here's a side with the World of Sport dates and links, it's helped me alot https://www.itvwrestling.co.uk/index.html
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Slight Consideration Ivan Koloff Io Shirai Might Look into for future Lists Ilja Dragnuov
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The WWE Vault Person must have known its GROTWE (Greatest Ruler Of The World Ever) Season! \
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My first ever favorite Japan based wrestler! In my GWE list, he's a tentative #16 below El Hijo de Santo, above Chigusa Nagayo. One of the best wrestlers ever (especially 2004-2015). I get why he did it but, I personally would have would have relied less on headrops. Kota Ibushi is good at the main event NJPW Heavyweight checklist wrestling style wrestling but, junior heavyweight and DDT stuff is way better. Wish he leaned more into being weird and creative. When doesn't have the spark in his matches, his matches can be a drag. I remember finally watching the Jiro Kuroshio vs. Ibushi match (I love both) from a big Wrestle 1 show, I hurt because I could feel Ibushi's heart wasn't in the match despite doing a balcony moonsault. I still want to see the Kota Ibushi research institute triangle wrestling ring and him vs. Andreza Giant Panda or Chiitan. The 2008nKenny Omega vs. Kota Ibushi, 2 out of 3 Falls is amazing and one of my favorite matches ever. Kaiju Mono is very fun movie and Ibushi's doing a moonsault on a kaiju is sick.
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Jumbo is now a lock at number 2 for me, he rules so much! Someone I'm on Discord with said they don't connect with Jumbo singles work so I nominated them alot of tags. I feel like even with just Tsuruta's tag work a decent case can be made for him. Maybe the best older brother/protecter tag team wrestler. 1980s Jumbo 2/28/82 Ole Anderson & Stan Hansen vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Tenryu - GCW *Jumbo in the territories in a quick fun match* 1/28/88 Abdullah The Butcher & TNT (Savio Vega) vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & John Tenta (Earthquake) - AJPW 7/15/89 Kenta Kobahi & Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Genichiro Tenryu & Stan Hansen - AJPW 8/18/89 Jumbo Tsuruta& Kenta Kobashi vs. Genichiro Tenryu (goes under 5 minutes) 1/14/90 Jumbo Tsuruta and Tiger Mask II vs. Samson Fuyuki and Genichiro Tenryu *My favorite Misawa perfomance ever?, Jumbo is so great as the older brother roll in a tag team* Grumpy Jumbo Era Wrestles more aggressive but, still in the old brother role 1/2/91 Jumbo Tsuruta & Mighty Inoue vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada AJPW *The match that made me love Mighty Inoue* 1/15/91 Jumbo Tsuruta, Masanobu Fuchi & Mighty Inoue vs. Kenta Kobashi, Mitsuharu Misawa & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi - AJPW 4/20/91 Akira Taue, Jumbo Tsuruta & Masanobu Fuchi vs. Kenta Kobashi, Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada *The Fan Appreciation Tag often gets touted as the best 6 man tag ever, get emotional attachment to the feuds before watching* 12/21/91 Akira Taue & Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Dan Spivey & Stan Hansen - AJPW Real World Tag League - Tag 17 Post Diagnosis Has to wrestle in a very style but, still tries and still has that charismatic spark. 10/18/96 Akira Taue, Dory Funk Jr. & Giant Baba vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Jun Akiyama & Mitsuharu Misawa - AJPW October Giant Series 1996 - Tag 13 1/2/97 Giant Baba, Jumbo Tsuruta & Rusher Kimura vs. Haruka Eigen, Masanobu Fuchi & Mighty Inoue - AJPW New Year Giant Series - Tag 1 5/1/98 Haruka Eigen, Masanobu Fuchi, & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Mitsuo Momota, & Rusher Kimura - AJPW 25th Anniversary show at Tokyo Dome Jumbo Tsuruta at the Tokyo Dome hearing the crowd still go oh with him is so sweet.
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Making My List HARASHIMA Hiroshi Tanahashi Major Consideration Hector Garza Consideration Hyper Misao Hayabusa Hirooki Goto Harley Race Homicide Don't Know Well but, would like to watch more of Harley Saito Hector Guerrero Herodes
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I'm considering Ishii. He's someone who I enjoy but, not sure if he connects with me on a top 100 level. Not sure where a good place to rank him would be. I think Ishii will get votes but, not make the top 100. I do think Ishii sometimes falls into forcing a dumb jock macho wrestling formula that sometimes doenst connect with me (he has matches where he detours from it). He also plays a very good underdog haven't watched it in a long time but, the Keith Lee match from Rev Pro in 2017 is amazing! I really like the Takeshita Wrestle Dynasty match from last year. He also has some interesting pre-2013 too, that I might try to maybe look into before voting.
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Maybe the best wrestler at mixing mind-blowing high flying emotional core face/that feels earnest work in the 2000s and one of the best wrestlers of the 2010s. . His Lucha Underground, AAA, and indie stuff is very fun. I think the Lucha Brothers are a fun team especially on the indies and PWG (specifically vs. Ricochet and Matt Sydal vs. Young Bucks), it didn't work as well in AEW (their charismas and the matches each excel at are often opposed especially with Alex Abrahantes (who wasn't bad nesssarily but, personality clash). Highly recommend the 2019, Nick Jackson vs. Rey Fenix match, his match vs. Kenny Omega is fun too. I haven't much of his WWE work but, hope he does well, he feels like a wrestler who I dont get is not one of the biggest stars in wrestling. Here's the WALTER match.
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Making My list Genichiro Tenryu George South Strong Maybe Giant Baba Goldberg Greg Valentine Gypsy Joe Go Shiozaki Consideration for this or a future list Genki Horiguchi Gilbert Cesca Gino HerHernandez Gran Naniwa Great Kabuki Gus Sonnenberg
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My Top 10 was for 2025 1. Zack Sabre Jr I really value going around and range. I saw nobody have as many great matches as ZSJ. The Goto feud is good too. Favorite Match - Zack Sabre Jr. and Jake De Leon vs. Fabio Makisig and El Phantasmo (DEXCON Dakila, 5/18) 2. Mei Suruga A similar case to Zack, the best ace and maybe best champion reign of the year. Mei Suruga has so much creative spark. Favorite Match - Mei Suruga vs. Chie Koishikawa (ChocoPro 438 Warring Era, 3/31) 3. Adam Priest The best heel and/or face in the world, excels in every opportunity he is given in a variety of settings. The DPW Champion work. Is so good. Favorite Match - Ultimate Conflict (DPW Title Fight in Vegas, 4/18) 4. Jon Moxley Mixed work at the start which is still understandable but, eventually clicked. His leaning into vunderability and desperation was really cool. Favorite Match - Jon Moxley vs. Adam Page (AEW All In Texas, 7/12) 5. Kyle Fletcher Feels like he really found himself this year. Sometimes goes to a little too far but, is still growing. In maybe the best match I have ever seen live and maybe the one of best cage matches ever vs. Will Ospreay. Favorite Match - Kyle Fletcher vs. Will Ospreay (AEW Revolution, 3/9) 6. Shinya Aoki Favorite Match - Astronauts (Fuminori Abe & Takuya Nomura) vs. Keigo Nakamura & Shinya Aoki (DDT Change Age, 4/6) 7. Kenny Omega Favorite Match - Kenny Omega and Will Ospreay vs. Konosuke Takeshita & Kyle Fletcher (AEW Grand Slam Australia, 2/15) with Japanese Commentary 8. Chihiro Hashimoto Favorite Match - Sareee vs. Chihiro Hashimoto (Sendai Girls Hashimoto 10th Anniversary Show “KAIBUTSU A DECADE”, 11/16) 9. Hiroshi Tanahashi Favorite Match - Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. EVIL (NJPW Wrestle Kingdom, 1/4) 10. Senka Akatsuki Favorite Match - Mayu Iwatani, Seri Yamaoka, and Utami Hayashishita vs. Mio Momono, Senka Akatsuki, and Takumi Iroha (NOAH Monday Magic Xtreme Season #1, 10/6)
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Found a 900+ video playlist of Randy Savage stuff seemingly mostly in order!
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Making my list (right now above Kenny Omega and below Hiroshi Tanahashi). Her matches feel so unique in a cinematic kind of way. She wrestles in some of the loudest crowds ever and it's absorbing even when she is not facing a Chigusa Nagayo or the Crush Gals (the 1985 Hair match is a top 10 match ever for me abd the 1986 match is a top 100 match too). Her case for me gets lowered some because it's a short run and not doing much in a way of range (comparatively) mainly only working Crush Gals era-AJW and not much outside of that. I think in her return to wrestling that I've seen feels feels like a neutral. I do think her return to wrestling stuff is solid nostalgia. There are wrestlers whose post peak effects their how I feel about them but, Dump Matsumoto doesn't. It feels like it is playing the hits stuff which feels less bad defeating the top wrestlers and feeling unmotivated post peaks.
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Nobody is for sure on my list Strong Consideration Fit Finlay Slight Consideration Freddie Blassie Fuminori Abe Franz van Buyten Fugo Fugo Yumeji Cool Wrestlers I would like to watch/Learn about Felino Fuerza Guerrera Fujita Jr. Hayato Freelance
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I have gotten watching more of El Satanico over the past few weeks after finding out about his retirement which has been great. He wasnt someone I considered (havent watched alot of historical lucha), I have seen alot more after starting research for GWE/GME helped inspired me a lot. He might be leaning to being in the top 20 for me, if I had more time to watch more of his stuff I could see him go even higher in my watch through, he always does something that connects with me in a match even even if I don't fully connect to the match even at age 70+
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A really interesting wrestler, basically built up to be a top guy in DDT suceed at age 16 (Debuted vs. El Generico at Peter Pan) and mostly succeeded at that was pretty consistently very good. In 2022, he had one of the best years and working well on the US indies, I have ever seen a wrestler with leaning more action packed sprints including vs. Adam Brookes in DPW and his best match maybe best match in DDT history vs. Kazusada Higuchi at Whose Gonna Top. I thinking last year, he had some odd dips like the Zack Sabre Jr matches that didnt click with me (still ranked him top 14 in the world). His PWG work specifically vs. Daniel Garcia at Nineteen and at BOLA 2023 were great. Posted this after seeing him Revolution face Jon Moxley last Sunday. "Not sure if he'll make my list but, Konosuke Takeshita might be one of the best live wrestlers I have seen (different than best wrestler I have seen live if that makes sense). I've seen him wrestle live 9 times (11 times if you counting BOLA tornament matches). He also might be the most consistently great match haver I have seen too. He is so great really at projecting that he is wrestling for or against everybody in the arena which is really impressive in big arenas on tv/ppv. There's many wrestling who are great (and even have great matches) but, feel like they are wrestling for the outside the arena audience." Some Free Random Konosuke Takeshita Recommends 2/15/15 Happy Motel (Konosuke Takeshita & Tetsuya Endo) vs. Strong BJ (Daisuke Sekimoto & Yuji Okabayashi) - DDT Saitama Super DDT 2015 https://vimeo.com/120509960 3/21/19 Konosuke Takeshita, Akito & Yuki Iino vs. Meiko Satomura, DASH Chisako & Chihiro Hashimoto - DDT Into The Fight AEW has some his matches up on YouTube with Japanese Commentary. https://youtube.com/@aewjp?si=cnT7E3XCCD4_tATq
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These two might be the two top contneders for greatest United States wrestler with both in my top 10 (At the lowest 20) for sure.
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Making my list El Satanico El Hijo de Santo Eddie Kingston Considering Eddie Guerrero
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That's my Number 1! Dr. Wagner Jr. Making My List Daniel Bryan/Bryan Danielson Dump Matsumoto Dusty Rhodes Daisuke Sekimoto Demus Dean Ambrose/Jon Moxley Daniel Garcia Consideration Daniel Makabe Dax Harwood (for a tag team list) Daisuke Harada Devil Masami Dick the Bruiser Dick Togo Don Frye Dos Caras Dustin Rhodes
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Making My List Chigusa Nagayo Cesaro / Claudio Castagnoli CM Punk Christopher Daniels Chihiro Hashimoto Chuck Taylor Strong Consideration Curt Hennig Consideration Carl Greco Carl Ouillet Cash Wheeler (For sure would make a tag team list) Cassandro Charlotte Flair Chavo Guerrero Sr. Chicky Starr Chon Shiryu Chris Brookes Chris Candido Chris Sabin Christian Cien Caras Clive Myers Crazy Crusher
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Talked to someone on the server. Athena being very good to great but, very intermittent hurts her case some but, she has been consistent over the last few years. She might rank in the 90s with Chuck Taylor and Mitsuhiro Matsunaga for me. I haven't much of it but, she might have interesting to look into her with her AIW and regional indie stuff. Her WSU match with LuFisto in 2014 is great from what I remember.
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PAC is a interesting because has been great for almost 15 years but, due to stuff stopping him, he feels intermittent. He feels for sure top 100 but, not sure where to place him. A great highflyer and impactful high flyer. He was very showy but, his moves felt like they had a bit more sting compared to others. He also has a sneaky amount of range. His face work feels like he comes of as someone who never turn heel or brooding. But, he does it and it works. He wrestled territory invader in Dragon Gate and tour helpinfg lifts people up (Cara Noir in the RIPTIDE match). He is also great base (the Will Ospreay match All Out match) and now since his return has leaned into being a good power guy. One of the first independent matches I saw was a PAC match.