goodhelmet

That's awesome!!!

He should type #wwewouldbebetterif

???

Shit, what did we talk about on Part Two?

Re-reading your "nuance being lost" post, we used JYD as an extreme example. My point is that anybody could be in that role if they had enough charisma and people rallied around them. My main contention was that it didn't matter if they were face or heel, it was in how they could be booked in the different territories. I even listed a ton of great working babyfaces who could have traveled around the country. What the fuck? You guys are arguing specifically against JYD but not against my initial argument that Parv now agrees with?

I am looking at Graham's site and they are running MSG once or twice a year. I haven't seen sell out since 2011 when ROCK popped Survivor Series. If you want to say Cena was well worth keeping a face prior to that time then I agree with you.

Bullshit... in 1985 and 1986 when Dusty went national, are you going to claim he didn't draw any gates? It was all about his opponent? Dusty wasn't a draw? Hell, Dusty was probably even more popular in the late 70s and early 80s.

If it seems like I am advocating turning him heel on the next RAW, I am not. However, it could be pulled off by Survivor Series or the next big quarter report. I also don't think it would tank business. I think people would be excited and refreshed by a Cena heel turn. It automatically takes a stale product and makes it hot.

Because more people attend TV tapings than they do house shows. As currently booked, nobody. If they got behind somebody, it will happen. Nobody thought Cena was good enough to be the guy in 2006. It wasn't until 2007 that he really found his groove as "the Guy". But they gave him the green light. Here are some names that could be huge if they booked them properly and they aren't all great wrestlers... Ryback Titus (may be too old) Dean Ambrose Cesaro Luke Harper Hornswaggle Roman Riegns All American Jack Swagger Dolph Ziggler Seth Rollins If you get the machine behind you, then people will perceive you as a star. The big key is not recycling old names from the past.

So they should just play it safe? Does Cena turning heel kill house show business or do people turn out to boo the heel while cheering the new hero? I also don't think it is a case of people just playing to the camera. I think alot of people just stay home instead of going to house shows altogether. That is an entire different problem which is that they are stale product. How do you jumpstart a stale product? First, you don't have Cena as your number one babyface. As for kids, they shouldn't be catering to kids because it's a show built on violence.

One of the huge problems that WWE has right now is that they are trying to be everything to everyone. I don't think kids have ever stopped watching wrestling even during the Attitude Era. If Cena turned heel, the younger fans will get over it and cheer the guy who is there to conquer Cena. You can't attract older fans by trying to hold on to the younger fans. In 2009, Loss, you were with me at the NOC PPV. those kids has as much Jeff hardy and Rey Mysterio merch on as they did Cena merch. WWE can find people that young guys can gravitate to. It doesn't have to be a 35 year old former rapping marine. As for house show reaction, those people will find somebody new to cheer for.

Exactly... and you rub it in their faces near the point of fans throwing shit, trying to key his car and having old grannies hitting him with a cane.

Dylan and I brought this up on the recent podcast but how many people would be upset if Daniel Bryan stopped doing the diving headbutt, the Manami toyota dropkick and the insane dives to the outside where he crashed into the railing?

No way... many of the boos are directed from the fans who don't think he can wrestle or resent his push to begin with.

Of course the idea is to change the overall direction and you use the biggest star you have as that catalyst.

If Hulk Hogan can turn heel in 1996 after a decade of being a babyface and long after the fans have become tired of him, then Cena can do it AND do it better. He can put on better matches and it completely changes the game. I don't think you move Cena down the card. You make him the most hated person in company history (if he isn't already).

Pros to turning... - Freshens up the character and the show - Will create mainstream buzz - Allows someone else to elevate to top babyface - According to Dylan, it's hard to create another boom with Cena as your top face. Cons to turning... - Biggest merch seller by far - Too big of a risk - If you turn him, then he'll just get cheered - Nobody to replace him

For chrissakes, nobody is advocating the Godfather's hoes coming out so Val Venis can fuck them in the shower. We are simply stating that you should get, as the Beatles said "the Beautiful People" as part of the Exotic Express if you want anybody to think it is a "cool" movement. It may be a comedy act but it was pushed by Cole as something that was cool. During the show, we rarely said turn a guy heel or face without giving some sort of booking idea or stating why we thought they made a better face or heel. Every single idea is with the intent of booking somebody properly or freshening up the character. It isn't rocket science. For Sheamus, you turn him heel by cutting a promo, beating people up, injuring guys people love and making them a world title threat. Mark henry in 2011 proved you can rehabilitate a guy by treating him seriously. It doesn't matter what Randy Orton's position is in the company. For the record, we said Orton needed to go on a long vacation.

We didn't touch NXT on Part Two.

The hot chix thing was firmly tongue in cheek so I could mention the lucha bikini girls who escort the luchadors to the ring. For the Adam Rose chix, I firmly believe what I said. You can't have a bunch of nerds and 40 year olds come to the ring with that guy and then tell me how cool he is. He needs hot women AND Jersey Shore musclehead escorts. As for disagreeing with everything, this is why the forum exists... to discuss the agreements and disagreements. We don't run from arguments and we allow for posters to back their opinions up. Feel free to list the wrestlers you disagree with that we mentioned. Heel turns suggested on the show... Sheamus, Adam Rose, Jack Swagger, John Cena (me, not Dylan), Kofi (I did not know that they already teased this on RAW earlier in the night).

Just curious.... what do you disagree with? Some examples?

I don't want to be Attitude era defender but part of the reason it came to pass is because the entire industry was in a funk. The Attitude era and ECW & NWO were reactions to the state of wrestling.