goodhelmet

Survivor Series 1992 November 25 WWF World Champ Bret Hart VS Shawn Michaels - This should not be on the list. Lifeless match with a dead crowd and two guys not ready to carry the load for the company. More interesting as an experiment of putting young guys on top and seeing how they fare. Shawn applied some long headlock segments but never worked them. You can blame Bret for that if you want but if your best offense is a headlock, the match is in trouble. WrestleMania XII March 31, 1996 Shawn Michaels VS Bret Hart - What a painful viewing experience. I can watch Curt Hennig and Nick Bockwinkel go for an hour, no problem. Samoa Joe-CM Punk? Check. The fact that there was one fall in 70 minutes makes this one of the slowest, least dramatic Ironman matches out there. It says something that these two guys were the best of the best in the company but couldn’t put together a classic match. How it got a reputation as a classic match, I would be interested to hear it. Survivor Series 1997 November 9 Shawn Michaels VS Bret Hart - Crap match with the most memorable finish of all time. Seriously, I have seen both Bret and Shawn have wild brawls with other guys… but their version of brawling each other (when they really didn’t get along) was fucking lame. This is my favorite era of HBK so I thought this would have been much better than it was but given I don’t like their previous two PPV match-ups then this is right there with the others as mediocre main event stuff.

Shoot me a PM

I don’t remember watching these matches. I would like to hear more about them before I invest my time in watching them for the hell of it. 4/?/91 Shawn Michaels vs. Kato WrestleMania VIII April 5, 1992 Shawn Michaels pinned Tito Santana October 27, 1992 Shawn Michaels pinned Davey Smith 3/17/91 Shawn Michaels vs. Mr. Perfect 8/1/94 Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon 3/6/95 Shawn Michaels vs. Davey Boy Smith King of the Ring 1995 June 25 Shawn Michaels VS Kama 3/4/96 Shawn Michaels vs. 123 Kid August 24, 1996 in Toronto, ON WWF World Champ Shawn Michaels VS Goldust in a "ladder" match 6/2/97 Shawn Michaels/Steve Austin vs. Legion of Doom 8/11/97 Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind 10/20/97 Shawn Michaels vs. Owen Hart

I’ll end up watching the 80s stuff for the WWF reset. I love the Rockers though so no reason to think I won’t enjoy most of these matches. The good thing is that I have matches that aren't against Rose/Somers to get a better idea of how good the Rockers really were. 1988 Saturday Night's Main Event October 31, 1989 The Rockers VS Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard in three falls. 1989 Saturday Night's Main Event February 16, 1989 Anderson & Tully Blanchard VS The Rockers WrestleMania V April 2, 1989 Akeem & Big Boss Man VS The Rockers SummerSlam 1989 Rick Martel, Jacques & Raymond Rougeau VS The Rockers & Tito Santana 11/25/89 Rockers vs. Hart Foundation 1990 April 23, 1990 The Hart Foundation VS The Rockers 4/28/90 Hart Foundation vs. Rockers Wrestlemania VII The Rockers VS The Barbarian & Haku Survivor Series 1991 November 28 The Nasty Boys & The Beverly Brothers VS The Rockers & The Bushwhackers

ragemaster... I took these off the same way I would take a match like Wargames off of a list for Sid or JJ Dillon. Are any of these matches what you would label as the Shawn Michaels show? For example, you can give Arn credit for the first Wargames because he was in the entire match and really held things together. You can even say the same for guys like Flair and Mysterio who were the Iron Men in their Rumble victories. If any of these have long, extended HBK is a bigger star than everyone else in the match moments, let me know! Survivor Series 1988 November 24 The Powers of Pain, The Rockers, The British Bulldogs, The Hart Foundation, and Jim Powers & Paul Roma VS Demolition Ax & Smash, Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard, Nikolai Volkoff & Boris Zhukov, Raymond & Jacques Rougeau, and The Conquistadors Survivor Series 1989 November 23 Ultimate Warrior, Jim Neidhart, & The Rockers VS Bobby Heenan, Andre the Giant, Haku, & Arn Anderson Survivor Series 1990 November 22 Rick Martel, Warlord, Hercules, & Paul Roma VS Jake Roberts, Jimmy Snuka, & The Rockers Survivor Series 1994 November 23 Razor Ramon, The 1-2-3 Kid, Davey Smith, Headshrinkers Fatu & Sionne Vs Shawn Michaels, Diesel, Owen Hart, Jim Niedhart, & Jeff Jarrett Survivor Series 1995 November 19 Shawn Michaels, Ahmed Johnson, Davey Smith, & Psycho Sid VS Yokozuna, Owen Hart, Razor Ramon, & Dean Douglas Survivor Series 2002 November 17 elimination chamber match Survivor Series 2003 November 16 Randy Orton, Chris Jericho, Christian, Scott Steiner, & Mark Henry VS Shawn Michaels, Rob Van Dam, Booker T, Bubba & D-Von Dudley 4/12/04 Triple H/Randy Orton/Batista/Ric Flair vs. Shelton Benjamin/Chris Benoit/Mick Foley/Shawn Michaels Survivor Series 2005 November 27 John Bradhsaw Layfield, Rey Mysterio, Batista, Randy Orton, & Bobby Lashley VS Shawn Michaels, Carlito, The Big Show, Kane & Chris Masters Survivor Series 2006 November 26 Triple H, Shawn Michaels, CM Punk, Matt & Jeff Hardy VS Randy Orton, Edge, Mike Knox, Gregory Helms, & Johnny Nitro 12/4/06 Matt Hardy/Jeff Hardy/Shawn Michaels/Triple H vs. Randy Orton/Edge/Joey Mercury/Johnny Nitro No Way Out 2008 February 17 elimination chamber Survivor Series 2008 23 November Shawn Michaels, Rey Mysterio, The Great Khali, & Cryme Tye beat John Bradshaw Layfield, The Miz, John Morrison, MVP, & Kane (18:13) in an "elimination" match. Michaels, Mysterio, & Khali were the survivors. 10/25/09 Chris Jericho/Kane/Tyson Kidd/David Hart Smith/Finlay/Matt Hardy/R-Truth vs. Triple H/Shawn Michaels/Big Show/Kofi Kingston/Jack Swagger/Mark Henry/Cody Rhodes

Victator, my plan isn't to shit on the matches. My plan is to watch the recommended matches. If I like them, I will comment on the matches I like. If I think it sucks, I will probably just say it sucks and moves on because really... if the choice is to invest time in Kane matches or nearly any other wrestling, I'll probably choose the alternative. The main reason for starting the thread was to get the discussion of Kane out of the HBK thread.

Got it. I think if they are as well-received as we think they are going to be, they are clearly going to strengthen HBK's case.

Dude he was just joking. Good because I am already set to watch every Demolitiion match available form the 1980s. I am not going to sit through a bunch of shit Kane matches just to continue this argument.

I have watched about 2/3rd of the WWF PPVs from the last 15 years and I never thought Kane was a good wrestler. With that said, what are the very best Kane matches that deserved to be watched? To keep it simple, I only want tags where Kane played a significant part or singles matches. I remember enjoying the TLC and MITB matches he was in but I think it is much easier to be part of a good match / clusterfuck with 6 people where you hit your big spots than it is for a singles match where you actually have to work the entire match.

Rage, I will be on vacation for a bit but I plan on taking some footage with me. I will be focusing on AWA and 1980s WWf but will work on cutting some of those matches when I have time.

Oh for fuck's sake, did I hit on one of your sacred cows again? Kane? Really? EDIT: Talking to Matt D.

OK, this argument is getting ridiculous. Ragemaster, Dylan and I are going to bite and do a write-up on 5 wrestlers apiece. Now, before we start crossing off matches from that Shawn list, if you think those matches are all legitimately good matches, I want to see a write-up on each one. Not a recap but your explanation on why those matches are good. I probably agree with you that most of those Kane matches are shitty since Kane is one of the worst main eventers ever in WWE. But hey, wrestlers like working with him so what the hell. Also, Chess Knight, you can disqualify the Rockers vs. Rose/ Somers from your mind but it doesn't mean they don't exist.

I think those are all of the Shawn PPV matches. Those aren't listed as great matches just as a list of matches Shawn had on PPV with some notable TV matches thrown in. So, the first point of order would be to take that list and eliminate the matches that aren't actually good.

You can take... Sting Andre Greg Valentine Tito Santana Hennig I'll take... Regal Pillman Gordy Savage Dibiase

Fuck it, it will be fun. DO IT!!!!

Look buzzkill, the point was to be a fantasy booker.

I think the lack of multiple people fighting for the authority role is slowly lacking from today's wrestling.

I have always found this topic fascinating. Also, I read somewhere that Carnegie at his peak in today's dollars would be worth about 300 billion. Rockefeller would be worth about 200 billion.

I've never heard anyone say anything about Lita's band. I want quotes.

Just curious, is she actually in a crappy band or you just not a fan of punk or whatever music she is playing?

Listening now while burning AWA sets and I am going to bring up 2 points... 1. I love the question "Who should ROH bring in?" Hell, instead of laughing at the demise, I would like to see people's thoughts on how to put a band-aid on the company. How should they change the company? 2. I have seen ACH about 4-5 times the last couple of years and he doesn't always have great matches but I have yet to see him miss one spot live. Even more impressive, I saw him have a match with Arik Cannon in Austin where it had just rained at an outdoor venue and they wrestled a 12 minute match on a slick mat and pulled it off without sacrificing spots. Really can't see why he hasn't been put in higher level indies.

I wonder if you guys will ever do a state of the indies show?

Dylan or Loss, you guys have split posts off from threads before. Can you take the picture posts of the Greatest Wrestler / Greatest Promo and post them in here?