goodhelmet

Bob Backlund vs. Sgt. Slaughter (3/21/81, cage match) --- This is a wierd match to watch. On one hand, you have Sarge bumping like a champ for Backlund, a nice gusher to increase the violence level, retribution from the previous match, and some great spots. On the other hand, it is basically an extended squash as the much bigger Slaughter gets very little offense in and plays a cowardly heel, constantly trying to escape, and basically admitting he is no match for Backlund. The ending is also pretty anti-climatic for a blow-off match. However, I have been marking out for both of these guys the last few days and I can easily see this finishing in the upper half of my list, probably right below the first Sarge-Backlund match and above stuff like the Slaughter/Daniels tag match.

The match is shown after the angle. I just caught this today. While there is nothing special about the match itself, it is def. not #100. Right now I have that saved for the Andre-Khan match. Something really bad has to pop up for that to get bumped off.

Sgt. Slaughter vs. Bob Backlund 1/10/81 --- It amazes me when watching heel Slaughter how easily he manipulates the audience. The same crowd that chants Gomer Pyle at him now will be chanting ?USA! USA!? in a couple of years. Eary on, after Sarge rams his shoulder in the turnbuckle, Backlund does the intelligent thing and attacks the arm and shoulder. It also helps that Sarge sells like a champ. The middle portion sees Sarge take over You gotta love using the headlock as an excuse to sneak in illegal punches as he plays the crowd and the ref. Then when he has Bob pinned, grabbing the tights hoping to score the pin. The home stretch sees both men trying to take advantage as the other one continuously has a counter or does something that you could buy as the end of the match. One thing that bothers me is that Backlund usually kicks out before a two count to eliminate any crowd anxiety. It isn?t just this match either. He did it in the Hogan match and in the pair of Muraco matches I watched. Another problem is when Backlund was shot out of the ring. It didn?t look like Sarge?s kickout had enough force to send Backlund out of the ring. However, Slaughter?s relentless attacks on Backlund, drawing blood no less, as he attempts to get back in the ring were fun to watch. Seeing Bob get in and duel it out and sending Slaughter, the great bumper, out of the ring was also great. Still, another inconclusive finish to a Backlund match has to knock this down a few pegs. Since it leads to the cage match I can forgive it though. With the amount of mediocre matches on this set, I can easily seeing this crack my Top 20.

If you want it to encompass as much as possible... yes.

My point was the reason no one has recommended them is because no one here, in our small community, actually has them.

With ECW... were there any truly great ECW matches worthy of being in this type of survey? I think the myth of the great PItbulls-Raven/Richards match has already been debunked and nothing else that wne tdown in that organization was really Match of the year worthy. With WCW and WWF TV ... slowly but surely. With Coliseum Video... I would lean on teke and Bruiser to come up with some stuff here. I can look through match lists and list potential matchups but not anything I have seen and loved with the exception of the Harts-Steiners match which I need to revisit anyway. With handhelds... there is a post at TOA that reviewed a big chunk of handhelds. That might be a starting point but I think the problem we are going to encoutner here is that this forum isn't very big and we probably don't have a big enough population to pick up a huge chunk of handhelds. Brian and I have a huge chunk of SMW but who has time to watch them and then decide what is a MOTY? Again, we are at the mercy of someone who knows something about that promotion. With USWA, you can ask people to recommend matches from there but I have never even seen a USWA show from the 90s and I have seen alot of wrestling. Is there anything really noteworthy from that promotion that no one anywhere has ever recommended some must see matches and we just missed it?

Bruno Sammartino vs. Larry Zbyszko (4/8/80 Philadelphia, PA) --- most uninspiring. The only thing I remember from this match is that Zbyzsko got kicked in the nuts. Nothing to see here. Ken Patera vs Pat Patterson (4/21/80 MSG) --- I obtained the full copy version of this match so I decided to watch this one instead of the clipped version featured on the DVDVR set. Simply put... a great match that shows Pat Patterson showing he is the moroe intelligent wrestler and Patera showing he is quite obviously the more powerful one. However, both guys play their role to perfection and the crowd appreicates it by being the loudest I have heard any crowd so far on any disc. They are just going nuts. This is going to land in my Top 20, I just don't know where yet.

Well, it's going to take me a few weeks to get to 1989 becuase now that I have all 8 discs and some additional supplement discs, I am going to try and go in chronological order to give me some perspective on matches that have rematches or if particular wrestlers improve or digress. Bob Backlund vs. Hulk Hogan (4/8/80 Philadelphia, PA) ---First off, the VQ for this match is really bad. I don't want to reinforce my reputation as a VQ snob because lets face it.. the matches were basically free but the VQ is making it hard for me to concentrate on the match. To be fair, most of the matches I have seen so far on the set have been more than watchable. As for the match, it's wierd seeing someone as small as Backlund taking advantage of the much bigger Hogan. then again, Hogan wasn't "invincible" yet so I can see why the champ would take control. One thing that sticks out early on is that Backlund is masterful at controlling someone in the headlock. Hogan attempts to throw Bob into the ropes but Backlund continues to hold on twice! For the next several minutes, Backlund maintains control working spots in while using the headlock as the controlling factor. The weak point of the match is clearly when Hogan is in control of the match. He gaisn control with a backbreaker. He follows up by working on the back but inexplicably starts working on the arm. Backlund works in some hope spots and the crowd comes alive but the time spent between hope spots is dreadfully slow. Initially, I was questioning Hogan's working over Backlund's arm but it lead to Backlund demonstrating his strength by lifting Hogan with one arm and carrying him to the ropes. However, at this point in the match, Hogan switches to a bearhug which would have worked better earlier in the match. The end engages the crowd but there are some silly moments such as the dueling airplane spins and the fact that everytime Hogan would kick out of a pin, he would immediately cover Backlund for a one count. Of course, we get an inconclusive finish as Backlund is counted out which isn't really a desirable result. In the end, this will probably be somewhere right smack dab in the middle of the ballot. Nothing terribly inoffensive but not enough positives to put it at the top of the list. I think I need to find a better copy of this to see if there are any little things I may have missed.

Did you mean Steamboat? If so. I agree with you. That tag match was about two particular spots and nothing else. Also, I was hoping the Jake match was good but thought it would be Armstrong ruling the day. At least there was one hidden gem on those shows so far.

From Meltz:

Is there anyone we could add who wrestled all three?

I don't think I had this listed but this is the matches in chronological order. This might give you perspective if particular matches evolved or digressed in a feud. 8.Bob Backlund vs. Hulk Hogan (4/8/80 Philadelphia, PA) 9.Bruno Sammartino vs. Larry Zbyszko (4/8/80 Philadelphia, PA) 7.Ken Patera vs Pat Patterson (4/21/80 MSG) 6.Bruno Sammartino vs Larry Zbyszko (4/21/80 MSG) 1.Bob Backlund vs Sgt. Slaughter (10/20/80 MSG) 2.Ken Patera vs Pat Patterson (12/29/80 MSG) 8.Bob Backlund vs Sgt. Slaughter (1/10/81 Philadelphia, PA) 9.Bob Backlund vs Sgt. Slaughter (3/21/81 Philadelphia, PA) 10.Pat Patterson vs Sgt. Slaughter (5/4/81 MSG) [includes angle] 12.Bob Backlund vs Stan Hansen (6/6/81 MSG) 7.Sgt. Slaughter vs Rick McGraw (6/20/81 Philadelphia, PA) [includes angle] 1.Andre the Giant vs Killer Khan (11/14/81 Philadelphia, PA) 8.Don Muraco vs Pedro Morales (11/23/81 MSG) 3.Bob Backlund vs Adrian Adonis (1/18/82 MSG) 1.Bob Backlund vs Adrian Adonis (3/20/82 Philadelphia, PA) 4.Bob Backlund vs Adrian Adonis (3/28/82 Landover, MD) 2.Johnny Rodz/Jose Estrada vs Tony Garea/Steve Travis (9/18/82 Philadelphia, PA) 3.Johnny Rodz vs Kuniaki "Chin" Kobayashi (11/25/82 Philadelphia, PA) 4.Bob Backlund vs Buddy Rose (11/25/82 Philadelphia, PA) 5.Bob Backlund vs Ivan Koloff (Philadelphia, PA 6/4/83) 6.Don Muraco vs Jimmy Snuka (8/16/83 Philadelphia, PA) 7.Iron Sheik vs Tito Santana (1/21/84 Philadelphia, PA) 8.Hulk Hogan vs. Iron Sheik (5/5/84 Philadelphia, PA) 11.Sgt. Slaughter vs Iron Sheik (5/19/84 Landover, MD) 11.Sgt. Slaughter vs Iron Sheik (5/21/84 MSG) 1.Sgt. Slaughter vs Paul Orndorff (6/2/84 Philadelphia, PA) 5.Sgt. Slaughter vs The Iron Sheik (6/16/84 MSG) 2.Hulk Hogan vs David Shultz (6/17/84 Minneapolis, MN) 18.Adrian Adonis/Dick Murdoch vs Mil Mascaras/S.D. Jones (Spring '84 St. Louis, MO aired TNT 6/26/84) 9.Adrian Adonis/Dick Murdoch vs Bob Backlund/Brian Blair (7/7/84 Philadelphia, PA) 2.Hulk Hogan vs Paul Orndorff (7/7/84 Philadelphia, PA) 5.Jimmy Snuka vs Roddy Piper (7/20/84 St. Louis, MO) 1.Adrian Adonis/Dick Murdoch vs Sgt. Slaughter/Terry Daniels (7/23/84 MSG) 13.Tito Santana vs Paul Orndorff (9/1/84 St. Louis, MO) 12.Bob Orton Jr. vs Mike Rotundo (12/1/84 Philadelphia, PA) 13.Adrian Adonis/Dick Murdoch vs The Brisco Brothers (12/28/84 MSG) 10.Roddy Piper/Bob Orton Jr. vs Jimmy Snuka/Tony Atlas (1/12/85 Philadelphia, PA) 1.Barry Windham vs Dick Murdoch (2/16/85 Philadelphia, PA) 13.Les Thornton vs Mr. Wrestling II (3/2/85 Atlanta, GA) 2.Dream Team vs Ricky Steamboat/Tito Santana (4/21/85 Toronto) 3.Hulk Hogan vs. Don Muraco (5/20/85 MSG) 12.Greg Valentine vs Ricky Steamboat (6/21/85 MSG) 3.Hulk Hogan vs Don Muraco (6/21/85 MSG) 14.Ricky Steamboat vs Bob Orton Jr. (7/20/85 Landover, MD) 7.Ricky Steamboat/Junkyard Dog vs Don Muraco/Mr. Fuji (8/17/85 Landover, MD) 11.Dynamite Kid vs Bret Hart (9/14/85 Landover, MD) 4.British Bulldogs vs Hart Foundation (9/23/85 MSG) 9.Hulk Hogan vs. Nikolai Volkoff (10/3/85 East Rutherford, NJ aired SNME 10/5/85) 2.Bruno Sammartino/Paul Orndorff vs Roddy Piper/Bob Orton Jr. (10/26/85 Philadelphia, PA) 3.Hulk Hogan vs Randy Savage (1/27/86 MSG) 4.Hulk Hogan vs Randy Savage (2/17/86 MSG) 12.Ricky Steamboat vs Bret Hart (3/8/86 Boston, MA) 5.Randy Savage vs Tito Santana (3/16/86 MSG) 8.Dream Team vs British Bulldogs (4/7/86 Wrestlemania 2) 6.Randy Savage vs Tito Santana (4/22/86 MSG) 17.Randy Savage/Adrian Adonis vs Tito Santana/Bruno Sammartino (7/12/86 MSG) 7.Randy Savage vs Ricky Steamboat (7/27/86 Toronto, Ontario) 8.Ricky Steamboat vs Jake Roberts (8/9/86 Boston, MA) 3.Tito Santana vs Bob Orton Jr. (8/9/86 Boston, MA) 4.Ricky Steamboat vs. Jake Roberts (8/28/86 Toronto Big Event) 14.Rougeau Bros. vs Hart Foundation (9/22/86 MSG) 15.British Bulldogs vs Hart Foundation (11/1/86 Boston, MA) 7.Randy Savage vs Jake Roberts (11/15/86 Los Angeles, CA, aired 11/29/86 SNME) 6.Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff (12/14/86 Hartford, CT aired 1/3/87 SNME) 16.Hart Foundation vs Killer Bees (2/23/87 MSG) 9.Ricky Steamboat vs. Randy Savage (3/29/87 Wrestlemania 3) 9.Tito Santana vs Butch Reed (5/12/87 Anaheim, CA aired PTW 5/12/87) 11.Hulk Hogan vs Bob Orton Jr. (5/12/87 Anaheim, CA Superstars aired 5/23/87) 13.Tito Santana vs Ron Bass (8/22/87 MSG) 1.Honky Tonk Man vs Ricky Steamboat (8/22/87 MSG) 10.Ted DiBiase vs Jacques Rougeau (Rockford, IL 9/16/87, Fall '87) 4.Strike Force vs Islanders (10/3/87 Boston, MA) 2.Bret Hart vs Randy Savage (Seattle, WA 11/11/87 aired SNME 11/28/87) 2.Glamour Girls vs Jumping Bomb Angels (11/24/87 MSG) 6.Strike Force/British Bulldogs/Rougeau Brothers/Young Stallions/Killer Bees vs Hart Foundation/Islanders/Bolsheviks/Demolition/New Dream Team (11/26/87 Richfield, OH Survivor Series) 10.Hulk Hogan vs. Ted DiBiase (3/12/88 Philadelphia, PA) 8.Bret Hart vs Bad News Brown (4/25/88 MSG) 4.Randy Savage vs Ted DiBiase (7/22/88 MSG) 5.Blue Angel vs Barry Horowitz (8/13/88 Los Angeles, CA) 3.Brainbusters vs Young Stallions (11/6/88 Toronto) 7.Powers of Pain/Hart Foundation/British Bulldogs/Young Stallions /Rockers vs Demolition/Conquistadors/Brainbusters/Rougeau Brothers /Bolsheviks (11/24/88 Richfield, OH Survivor Series) 6.Tim Horner vs Barry Horowitz (12/30/88 MSG) 5.Randy Savage vs Bad News Brown (1/16/89 Hamilton, Ontario) 8.Rick Rude vs. Tito Santana (2/11/89 Boston, MA) 9.Hulk Hogan vs Bad News Brown (2/16/89 Hersey, PA aired 3/11/89 SNME) 6.Bret Hart vs Ted DiBiase (3/8/89 Odessa, TX aired Prime Time 3/20/89) 5.Mr. Perfect vs Ron Garvin (3/18/89 Boston, MA) 11.Hulk Hogan vs Big Bossman (3/18/89 MSG) 10.Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage (4/2/89 Wrestlemania 5) 3.Jake Roberts vs Ted DiBiase (4/24/89 MSG) 9.Hart Foundation vs Twin Towers (5/17/89 Duluth, MN) 14.Brainbusters vs. Hart Foundation (8/28/89 East Rutherford, NJ Summerslam) 15.Ultimate Warrior vs Rick Rude (8/28/89 East Rutherford, NJ Summerslam) 4.Greg Valentine vs Ron Garvin (9/30/89 MSG) 6.Bret Hart vs Mr. Perfect (10/2/89 Wheeling, WV) 5.Fabulous Rougeau Bros. vs Rockers (10/10/89 London, England) 10.Rockers vs Rougeau Bros. (10/13/89 Paris, France) 7.Rockers vs Brainbusters (10/31/89 Hersey, PA aired 11/25/89 SNME) 12.Mr. Perfect vs. Ronnie Garvin (12/12/89 Nashville, TN) 1.Rick Rude vs Roddy Piper (12/28/89 MSG)

Well, if UFC is still on and TNA lasts, I will have someting else to occupy my Monday nights anyway.

I voted for US 90s for two reasons... 1. I think that is the footage that we have the most of. It would be easier to compile that and distribute than anything else at the current moment. My next choice would be 90s All Japan because I have a shitload and that is also easy to acquire. 2. It is the type of wrestling everyone is most familiar with. I think people would be more apt to participate if they were watching something they know first. The backlash is that they get through 90s WWF and then abandon the rest of the groups.

EDIT: Replying to EJ I guess the next step would be which of those matches that you listed would represent the best those guys have to offer. Anyway, here are a few more possible matchups... Owen Hart-British Bulldog-Bret Hart (You could also throw HBK in this mix to make it 4 wrestlers if you wanted to) Jushin Liger-Shinjiro Ohtani-El Samurai EJ and I were talking and Kawada-Kobashi-Misawa would be too easy. I have a Finlay comp that has matches against Benoit and Regal. Add a few benoit-Regal matches and that would be one hell of a round-robin.

The Jarrett-McMichael tags are kind of out of place but the last tag would be fine.

This thread is inspired by the conversation going on in the Loss4Words 100 thread. We were discussing some round-robin matchups that we would like to see involving Dick Murdoch, Ric Flair and Butch Reed. A few months back, I received a tape from Loss of different round-robin matchups created by Frank Jewett that featured different wrestlers. These included the following... Round Robin I - Inoki, Rhodes, Backlund, Hansen Antonio Inoki v Dusty Rhodes (NJPW 11/08/79, ***) Antonio Inoki v Bob Backlund (NJPW 11/30/79, ****1/4) Antonio Inoki v Stan Hansen (NJPW 02/08/80, ***1/2) Stan Hansen v Dusty Rhodes (NJPW 05/16/80) Bob Backlund v Dusty Rhodes (NJPW 05/27/80, ****) Bob Backlund v Stan Hansen (NJPW 09/30/80, ***1/2) BONUS MATCH - Antonio Inoki v Dusty Rhodes (NJPW 11/01/79, ***) Round Robin II - Tsuruta, Steamboat, Flair, Race Jumbo Tsuruta v Ricky Steamboat (AJPW 12/01/80, ***1/4) Ric Flair v Jumbo Tsuruta (AJPW 10/09/81, ****1/4) Ric Flair v Harley Race (GCW 02/28/82, ***) Ric Flair v Ricky Steamboat (AJPW 06/04/82, ***) Jumbo Tsuruta v Harley Race (AJPW 08/01/82, ***) Harley Race v Ricky Steamboat (AJPW 12/07/82, ***3/4) BONUS MATCH - Harley Race v Ric Flair (AJPW 05/22/84, ***1/2) Round Robin III - Kerry, Gordy, Tsuruta, Flair Kerry Von Erich v Terry Gordy (WCCW 05/07/84, ***1/2) Kerry Von Erich v Jumbo Tsuruta (AJPW 05/22/84, ****3/4) Kerry Von Erich v Ric Flair (AJPW 05/24/84) Jumbo Tsuruta v Terry Gordy (AJPW 10/29/84) Ric Flair v Terry Gordy (WCCW 01/11/85, ***1/4) Ric Flair v Jumbo Tsuruta (AJPW 04/24/85, ***3/4) So, I pose this question.. what round-robin matchups would you like to explore? Some may be dream matchups like the Fans-MX-RnR matchup I mentioned in Loss's thread. Others are matchups that could be possible with a few tape trades and could easily be compiled. I think one matchup that could be explored this way is Austin-Bret-HBK. They both wreslted each other at least three times and this might make for an interesting conversation. There is also the Sting-Flair-Vader matchup. Sting had his best matches against Vader and Flair. However, no Vader-Flair matchup has blown me out of the water even though they are both better than Sting. It mught be neat to see what happens in those matches hat causes this distinction. So, lets see if you guys can put o your think tanks and come up with some interesting matchups or comp possibilities.

He gets excited about wrestling but he could have let Rogers get in a sentence or two. Also, I agree 100% that Rogers is an awesome FIP. I think the Fans-MX No DQ Mid South match that Loss and I reviewed here would have been ten times better had Rogers been playing FIP.

Then I can only imagine how you felt sitting through the Fantastics shoot or the MX-Fans roundtable. How n the hell did Rogers put up with that guy for so many years on the road? he never shuts the hell up. Back to Fulton, what specifically about Fulton do you not like in the ring? I haven't seen the matches on the house shows yet but everything else I have seen from the Fans (MX comp, Barnett set, All Japan, NWA set, etc) has been solid gold. Maybe Rogers was just that good where he hid Fulton's weaknesses.

I'll have to look but they may both be featured on the Mid Atlantic set as well.

That's what I am talking about. they both went long with Reed in Mid South and both have what are considered two different styles. I want to know who got the better end result. I wonder if we can find matches of Fair vs. Murdoch so we can do a Redd-Murdoch_Flair roundtable set. I imagine if we look hard enough we can do this with several wrestlers. Too bad the Fantastics and RnRs never wrestled each other (to my knowledge) or we could do a Fans-RnR-MX roundtable set.

From this week's Observer... --- Based on early sales, the DVD will not be a big hit. ---According to Mletz, they were not unfair to him as a wrestler but may have been unfair to him from a business standpoint. Of the three times he left, 2 were accurate and one was misleading. ---It is accurate he was not a good wrestler for the most part. He was a bad interview and he was unpopular with the other wrestlers. However, he did count Kerry Von Erich and Owen Hart as his friends during his time in the company. ---In the DVD, Meltz feels the Fed took too much credit for "making him". ---In the DVD, Gene Okerlund said the ratings were in the toilet for Warrior's interview because it was so bad. The truth is that his 18 minute monologue drew a 6.41 rating which is one of the top 5 highest head-to-head ratings up to that point. ---Speaking of Owen, a funny story about when they roomed together direct from Meltz... ---According to Meltz, the boggest problem with the DVD is the WWF taking too much credit for his success. ---He says that where the DVD fails to tell the real story is the events surrounding Mania 6. The DVD portrays it as "What more could Vince have done than let him pin Hogan to win the title at Wrestlemania." In reality, while it was supposed to be passing the torch, it was Hogan putting himself over in the loss that buried Warrior. The DVD also says Warrior's first reign was a success which Meltz says was not the case. --- THe DVDs biggest credibility issue was his first firing. McMahon claims Warrior held him up for more money. Everyone in the company believed McMahon was held up the day of Summerslam 1991. Warrior got through the match and then was fired afterwards. This is disputed by Warrior in his comments about the DVD last week. ---On the DVD, when Warrior returned for Mania 8 in 1992, Bruce Pritchard said that Warrior looked smaller and different and attributed it to Warrior not training as hard. LOL ---The DVD ignored Warrior's lawsuit after his second firing because it would make the WWF look bad for bringing him back after he sued them. ---On the DVD, about Warrior's final stint with the company, McMAhon and Ross emphasized that if you are advertised to the public, you can't no show. However, Meltz points out that the company has had no problem falsely advertising main eventers and as recently advertised John Cena when they knew he would not be there. ---The DVD doctored a poster for a San Francisco show on July 2, 1996 by superimposing a photo of Warrior over a photo of HBK and advertised Warrior vs. Vader as the main event. However, one of the earlier matches is listed as Sid vs. Bulldog and Sid did not come back until after Hellwig had quit. ---What must burn Vince even more is that the DVD states Ultimate Warrior is the trademark of Ultimate Creations, one of Warrior's businesses. ---Meltz said the DVD may be unfair but that Warrior's repsonse was as classless as can be.

I am interested in what you thought of the Reed-Murdoch match that went nearly as long on Mid South House Show 75. I have never thought Flair and Murdoch were very similar in thier style. so the fact Reed went long with both is an interesting comparison I would like to see made. EDIT: You can follow that up with watching the Murdoch-Reed matchup on 77 to compare the two matches.