Slasher

While the fans wouldn't complain about Owens being the champion, I think putting the belt on him now would have been a mistake. Owens, like Bray Wyatt, should have a meaningful run with the belt because their characters are such that you can do so many things with them as a champion. Owens winning the belt with designs of having Reigns win it a month or two later would only serve to piss off the very same fans that are forcing them to keep the belt off Reigns right now.

Oh boy...if they are waiting for the fans to come around on Reigns before giving him the belt, I guess he will never be the champion then. Edit- And that philosophy is so weird too. They had no problem forcing pushes on fans. I mean Cena is the obvious example of the franchise ace who got pushed despite losing support from fans early on in his run. Like I said, shit or get off the pot. If you want him to be the guy, make him the guy, period. I can understand not wanting to spend yet another decade fighting with the fans on the guy and his push, but ultimately its their show. Do what they want/need and go with it. And the worst part is there is such an easy solution to it, turn him heel and build him up as the guy from that angle. The more wins he gets, the begrudging respect they can turn into a babyface run. Like Triple H in 2002.

I definitely would have hated if they turned Dean Ambrose heel at Reigns's expense but that would have been much better a story to tell I think, and Ambrose is actually a good choice for a heel champion losing it to Reigns at Wrestlemania. Obviously the fans probably wouldn't have cooperated with the WWE, instead they would cheer Ambrose and boo Reigns, but at the least, the match would have some real heat going for it. Sheamus serves no real function in the story here other than WWE bookers being the Lucy to Reigns's Charlie Brown and the belt their football. The crowd tonight didn't like Reigns but I am confident that he would have gotten some brownie points in respect from them if he successfully squashed Sheamus's attempt to cash in. So essentially to try to get fans behind Reigns, they missed on the very angle that would have done the job. They just like to make millions instead of billions, I guess.

No, not really. If the original plan was for Reigns to win in November and then defend the belt at Wrestlemania, then obviously Sheamus wasn't supposed to cash in tonight or any time before Wrestlemania. Rollins would have lost tonight and be free to face Triple H regardless. What I don't understand is if you're right, why would they think having Reigns lose the belt immediately after winning it for the first time in his career, regain it in likely a heatless match at Royal Rumble and be set up as somewhat a lame champion going into the biggest show of the year? This is their future franchise ace we are talking about here. He is one of those cases of "either shit or get off the pot". If they want him to be the champion, why not give him the belt and try to get his momentum going strong on the road to Wrestlemania? I can understand if they wanted to give him an official coronation of becoming their champion at Wrestlemania, but against Sheamus? That doesn't work. Crowning him at the Royal Rumble is actually one of the most anti-climactic things they can possibly do with what should be a key point of this era, with Reigns being the man from here on out. So...either give him the belt now or hold it off til Wrestlemania, and against someone better than Sheamus. There is no in-between option that works. It isn't too late to do the win at Wrestlemania, I guess, but I can't imagine a viable way for Sheamus to lose the belt before Wrestlemania and/or against someone that isn't Reigns but that would be a good choice to lose the belt to Reigns at Wrestlemania. Rollins is out. Cena and Taker are possibly tied up in their matchup. Brock could do it but I definitely don't want to see that match for the second year in a row. Brock/Reigns 2 should probably happen at Summerslam with Reigns defending and selling the story how Reigns actually never beat Brock the first time, so he is still the big mystery threat to Reigns's...reign.

What confuses me is if the plan was for Reigns to beat Rollins and then head into Mania as champion, why did he...not win? I mean, what, is Reigns only allowed to beat Rollins but not Sheamus? They weren't going to have Sheamus cash in successfully for as long as the plan is Reigns winning tonight and going ahead to Wrestlemania, so what changed?

I don't see why people complain about Survivor Series anyways. The whole point and appeal of that in years in the past was it gave us opportunities to see mismatches and quirky teams. But with how the company has been booked, that appeal is gone. They run 6 man tags all the time. They run Feud 1 participant, Feud 2 participant, etc vs Feud 1, Feud 2, etc all the time. I fail to see what would be exciting to see Kalisto teamed up with Ryback and Dean Ambrose taking on King Barrett, Kevin Owens and Cesaro or whatever. I am perfectly ok with them not making matches for the sake of it being the Survivor Series show. Let the matchups develop naturally and if it warrants a big tag team elimination match then so be it, if not, don't bother.

I agree with whoever said before somewhere on this board that Vince just doesn't like his current talent. I think it is why he is making mistakes now because he really does not believe in anyone and so he thinks he has to force the hand in getting whoever he dislikes the least into stars...or as much of a star as he thinks is possible for all those guys with such low ceilings in his eyes.

Yeah struggle makes more sense in pro wrestling context. The only time someone should tap out so quickly is if in an Ironman match and you anticipate getting the point back without having a limp body part to deal with. But its not like you get to fight another day in a few months in MMA terms when you are more than likely expected to wrestle the next night and every night after.

I think it seemed pretty clear that cooling off Bret Hart upon his entry in WCW was intentional, or at least strongly guided by the other guys like Hogan. WCW was just never the right place for him to be in the late 90s. He would have fit comfortably in JCP or late 80s/early 90s WCW but not the nWo era WCW. You have to remember that Hogan was the biggest power broker of all the wrestlers in WCW at the time and he never saw anything special in Bret, or admit to it if he did. Sting was already tied in to the nWo thing, who else could they have put across the ring from Bret? I can see the logic in Flair being the choice but alas like you said, they did not want to work each other and so they didn't really put as much in it as they could have. The only two other viable options were Nash and Giant, and they already had their feud going at the time. Maybe if they held off Bret for a few months until the Hogan/Sting feud cooled down but there is something to be said of striking when the iron was hot, so that was never an option. Just bad timing and Hogan's ego buried Bret quickly as just another dude on the bloated roster. A shame too because I think Bret was one of the more entertaining US championship level guys at the time and definitely could have contributed as a babyface in that division.

I think Kevin Owens is a pretty good heel too actually. Does he do anything cool or babyface-ish? I can't remember. I don't think being a John Cena foil disqualifies him from the list. It isn't his fault Cena is so polarizing.

This is very true. Because the way things are set up, so many of the heels now undermine themselves by playing to the fans' preference. This in addition to the way they have promoted heels like DX or the nWo as being cooler than cool in their time, and it is pushing modern wrestling further and further away from the old fashioned pure heels. However the other problem is that fans are going to cheer whatever they want. So it is like if there is a decidedly heelish aspect to someone's character but people think its cool so they cheer it when the heel does it, what can the heel do? Drop the act? It is very difficult to have cooperative crowds regardless of babyfaces being booed because it is obvious they are favored or heels that are cheered because they have some fun aspect to their character. I am thinking of people like Bad News who got cheered for doing the I got bad news for you catchphrase. Who ever imagine that stuff getting over? Im not talking about New Day though where it seems obvious they are actually pandering for cheers.

Well I think to avoid the male on female violence that the bodyguard would be needed to pay some things off physically. Especially if the woman was antagonizing the male workers. I don't mean a bodyguard in the sense that she would hide behind him when interacting with female rivals as she would be strong enough to stand on her own in that regard. The guy can just be her silent second for the most part but when she is fucking with the men, then he comes in to show ass or to piss the fans off that they don't get an opportunity to see the Dudleys powerbomb her through tables because he intervened.

When John Cena talks to the camera as if he is addressing all the fans sitting at home during his entrance. Really helps accentuate the part of his gimmick of being the people's champion regardless if you like him or not.

Would a diva that needs to interact with men get over if her gimmick is that of a strong amazon level worker who has a youngish male manager, not to talk for her, but just to run interference and generally being a bodyguard for her? This is a serious question by the way. I am curious to see what you guys think.

I think it does exist but the fact is, it takes quite a bit for someone to get an actual reaction from people. We have seen thousands of wrestlers working in front of an apathetic crowd that makes not a single sound and just sits on their hands. So by this virtue, the "X-Pac" heat is nearly just as valid and to WWE, valuable heat as legitimate heat is. If we are willing to call the schtick Mick Foley does or any others who gets a Pavlovian reaction as a form of "pop", that being the "cheap pop" which is obviously not as valued as a genuine positive pop like when Rock or Austin comes out, but is still a part of what pro wrestling has been about, then the X-Pac heat is the negative version of the cheap pop. It isn't a perfect analogy but I think it is the best way to view it.

Perhaps its another case of Kevin Dunn being a total hinderance to Triple H and Stephanie's plans? They went from being all about a revolution and got reduced back to the old mindset of "Women be crazy bitches~!" I do agree that the ship has sailed for her. But I wonder if NXT isn't part of the problem. By that I mean she was getting time to train and improve. Her title reign was maintained with a level of care that was always going to be difficult to do on tbe main roster. It is almost like the classic ECW wrestler getting over and getting a big time contract from WWF or WCW and being exposed without the protection that Heyman afforded to them in his promotion.

Call me crazy but I can totally see it being Charlotte's idea. She probably doesn't understand the mood of the fans who would see this as exploitative or tasteless. She has been floundering really badly as the champion, probably under a tremendous amount of pressure to make good on the Flair name and the expectations of both the company and of the fans who wonders what she has done to earn this push over people like Sasha or Paige. She probably genuinely thought that it was a good way to earn some sympathy heat. She probably has seen a good amount of wrestling from when her father was around and sbe has probably seen all the tasteless stuff promoters have been doing all these years. If it worked before, why not now? Well obviously the world spins differently now as opposed to back then. I think it was a honest misjudgment on her part BUT I think the blame should be largely placed on the company for going with it and for not knowing in foresight that it would have been a bad idea. I mean, this shit happened back in 2006 with Rey doing the Eddie tribute storyline and Orton's heartwarmkng line to him. Just bad all around.

Maybe you are right about her size being a problem for her if she is an underdog but I think (but could be wrong on this) that the fans who have any interest in what the women are doing realizes that Charlotte is one of the greener wrestlers of the bunch. Maybe she doesn't have to be a physical underdog but maybe she would have struggles with women who have a reputation for being good wrestlers like Sasha or Paige or even Becky Lynch. I mean there are different kinds of pushes or lack thereof for people with different sizes. Look at Bad News Barrett. He is one of tbe taller guys in the company but no one picks him to win in a match against someone like Daniel Bryan. I just feel like instead of cramming Charlotte down people's throats the way they have done so, is not a way to get fans into her but if it is a situation where the fans gets to see her improve each week and then it becomes a genuine connection much like sports fans who sees their teams rise through the ranks from a bad team to a promising team with good core of players to a bonafide championship contender to champions. If they want her to be a babyface so badly, they have to do something different here.

I am not sure making Charlotte "invincible" would have been the right move to make. I actually think if she has to be a babyface, they should book her like her father the few times he was a babyface in JCP, someone with a lot of fire and knowing how to escape with wins by the skin of her teeth. Have them sell the idea that she is always evolving and learning to be a great pro wrestler. Someone that if she makes a mistake that time in a match, she is not ever going to make that mistake again. But I think she needs to bump more for the heels to put that story over and kind of help hide her weaknesses as a wrestler technique-wise. I realize this is not how Triple H and Stephanie wants to portray her but I think this way would have gotten fans behind her more. This also means though that she wouldn't be in a position to win the title yet, but that to me is not a problem. Right now Sasha Banks deserves the title more anyways and Charlotte can be put on track to win her firat championship at Wrestlemania or next year's Summerslam.

Charlotte is a Triple H find. She is Ric Flair's daughter with the college level athletics on her resume which is something that Triple H appreciates a lot in any potential signee/worker. It was pretty obvious from day one that she was going to be groomed for a featured spot in the division. I am only surprised they think her future is as their babyface ace when logically all her attributes makes up a good heel instead. Then again I guess they also realize that Sasha Banks has to have her own prominent spot and that her character is better suited to be a heel as opposed to Charlotte's fairly blank canvas of a persona. It is just one of those things where all the major players in the division are meant to be heels so the one with the least obvious tendencies has to be the babyface and that's Charlotte. Sasha should be heel. Paige should be heel. Nikki Bella should be heel. Just how things go I guess.

No I don't think the top heel spot is as high of a priority. Vince has always favored strong babyface aces. But I think there is more of a conscious effort to take care of the top heel spot. And I think it is a result of Triple H's growing influence on the booking. He thinks the JCP model of having Ric Flair as the top heel and the top star overall. Of course the heels have to cycle in and out of the spot to keep title matches or programs moving along. But when I think of the term top heel, I think of it as a guy who they frequently turn to for programs against their top babyfaces. This is Triple H. This is Randy Orton. This is Edge. This is Batista. But obviously the babyfaces are also cycled in and out. Sure, Cena is the one and only in a fixed top spot but he isn't always in the main storyline. They cycle. So while I concede that babyfaces are more important, I do believe that Vince doesn't want to put guys who he doesn't see as a star in the top spot, regardless if it is babyface or heel. You don't see Miz or Truth be heavily involved in major storylines even if they were handed the JTTS spots of putting over a storyline that is about Cena and the Rock more than it is about Miz and Truth. Cesaro is a guy Vince would be comfortable once in a while being a challenger for a month or two but he isn't going to make the show about him. They did for Triple H. They did for Randy Orton. They did for Edge. They did for CM Punk. Because they are guys Vince sees as stars.

I think it is somewhat misleading to make that claim. Benoit was the top heel? Err...only when he was paired with Shane McMahon. After that, I would argue that Kurt Angle was their top heel in interim. They tried to push Rikishi as a top heel because he was getting over very well as a babyface and they thought it would translate to a compelling heel run but when it failed, back to Triple H they went. But Angle was the heel champion (and paired with Stephanie to boot). Benoit was quickly shuffled out of the main event after his program with the Rock ended. Christian their top heel? Not really. Even when they tried to give him a main event against John Cena, they got cold feet and ended up putting Jericho in the match. This also in the same time frame where Triple H was pushed as the top heel dealibg with Batista. Cena was the newbie Raw champion. His programs fell below Triple H's. Then if you are referring to his run in the feud with Orton, it was Smackdown. We all know where Smackdown ranks in their hierarchy-which isn't the top level. Hennig was one of the bigger stars the WWF swiped from AWA and Big Bossman was a Hogan challenger. And this was an era where the top heel wasn't as important as it is now. Back then it was all about Hogan. So I don't think the reference really works in your argument. Of course there are always exceptions but it does seem like Vince has placed similar level of expectations on any potential top heel that he does the babyface ace..in that they have to be stars. I don't think that is an outlandish claim. It makes sense to me that he would do it that way.

No, they see Rollins as a star. He might not have been booked strongly as the champion but they wouldn't have devoted so much time in featuring him on TV and in special events if they didn't believe in him It feels like this was basically his ttial championship run, much like CM Punk's first title reign where he was booked pretty similarly (fluke champions that everyone is waiting for the other shoe to drop and losing the title back to a "real" main eventer".

Too bad Cesaro is more suited to be a babyface. He has a higher ceiling as far as potential goes as a babyface than he would as a heel. Vince doesn't think he is a star, and typically Vince has to believe in someone being a star in order to be a #1 heel. Who was their last top level heel that didn't really have that star power? JBL ten years ago maybe?

I know that Cena/Taker has been talked about as a potential Wrestlemania match but I really wouldn't be surprised if they ran Taker/Bray II and that it would be the match that Taker retires in a loss to the new torch bearer for his kind pf pccult character. I hope I am wrong though.