Slasher

Austin definitely has one match left in him. The problem is finding the right opponent. They can't burn that match on someone they don't trust completely to capitalize on whatever the match offered. Every passing year definitely diminish the chances incrementally.

Bret is like Jim Ross in that Vince utilized them in featured spots all the while keeping an eye at the door hoping better choices would walk in and then pushimg them out of the spots only to have to return to them when the others ended up not panning out. He obviously respected Bret a great deal but he just wasn't what Vince wanted his champion to be, dammit. Also I am pretty sure that Bret's first reign was the only one that Vince kept open ended. All the other times he won the title Vince would always already have plans for Bret to lose the title somewhere down the road. Basically Bret was the chauffeur for the title, picking it up from a failed reign to put it on Vince's next attempt for a superstar (ie. a new failed reign).

Nah. 2002-2003 was the peak of HHHate, but I think of it originating all the way back in 1999. No one wanted him to be the champion and reacted with apathy and annoyance. In 2000 people hated him for retiring Mick Foley, winning at Wrestlemania when the table was set up for the Rock to win, doing that angle in April with Chris Jericho and the title switch, losing the title without actually having to be beaten (Vince or Shane was the one taking the loss), for not letting Jericho win at Fully Loaded despite Jericho being the only guy that the fans wanted to see win, refusing to lose Stephanie to Kurt Angle because his is apparently a character no woman would ever want to leave him-and also refusing to lose to Kurt, period, claiming that no one would find it credible to lose to a guy like Angle leading to a wonderful comeback by Pat Patterson calling him on his bullshit reminding him that Kurt Angle is a freaking gold medalist winning wrestler, returning to the show a mere week later after being dropped while trapped in a car like a goddamn immortal. Then you have 2001 with him going over Austin in the 3 stages of hell when Austin should have been protected for his match in the main event of Wrestlemania against Rock, refusing to turn babyface knowing perfectly well that he would have to be fed to a newly minted heel Austin, electing instead to be the 1B heel in the company. The fans were happy that as unfortunate his quad injury was they would not have to see his face on TV for a good while. Obviously most of all this is related to manipulation of the audiences to hate him as a top heel should but they are not stupid. They know he was way too massively overpushed and resented him for it.

I don't doubt that Vince saw it as an opportunity to make money off DX but the way they went about reuniting Triple H and Shawn Michaels was totally out of blue starting at Wrestlemania with them crotch chopping in their individual matches. I think it was not the direction Vince originally planned for the two. Triple H was a heel at the time so it made no sense to do it and in such a halfassed manner. So I went to check and the WWE signed back with USA from Spike in the fall of 2005 and DX reunited in the spring of 2006. That is only a few months apart. It is entirely plausible to think that after the whole changeover someone would take ownership of the product they put on TV and Bonnie Hammer would start feeding Vince suggestions and requests. Or it could all be coincidental. *shrugs*

It is tough to imagine what 2000 would have looked like if Rock was forced to take off for a few months to film. They were already missing Austin. Foley had retired by then. If Rock was gone, they would truly have no one in the main event babyface ranks. They would probably have to rush Taker's return. Or really try to push Chris Jericho sincerely which we know Triple H wouldn't have allowed that. .

If we are looking at NXT guys seriously for Taker at Wrestlemania, I hate to say this but I think Baron Corbin is the guy. It would be cool if it was Joe but at this point I wouldn't bother really. Reason being that if they ever decide to pair then it really should be something like a 3 match series. I think an one off match wouldn't be as effective as if Corbin did it. Balor...gotta think Undertaker would be more comfortable working with someone just a wee bit bigger than Balor. I know Taker has preferred opponents in recent years as being guys who stood a chance of helping Taker produce a quality matchup. I don't think he would be comfortable working with Balor and the match would suffer as a result. If he has to have a bad match at the biggest show of the year, might as well go with a bit more imposing a presence like Bray Wyatt or if it happens, Baron Corbin.

I seriously doubt Vince would have put the belt on Hogan if he knew Hogan wasn't going to help carry the house shows...BUT... maybe he did let Hogan off the hook thinking maybe a happier Hogan would be a more agreeable Hogan in the future plans, ie hypothetically putting Bret over later that year. This way he can build up Bret more so he would be a suitable champion by virtue of having beaten the iconic Hulk Hogan after a string of strong showings. Think like how they dealt with Daniel Bryan They put the belt on the guy when he wasn't anywhere close to ready to carry the load, had him eat a boot 18 seconds into his Wrestlemania title defense to lose, then spent the next two years building him as an offensive powerhouse with a major chip on his shoulder going into the Summerslam match with the long time babyface ace and making him in one night with a knee to the face (let's forget what happens next for the sake of the analogy). Maybe Bret was supposed to have a truncated version of that rebuild. Problem is Vince would then realize Hogan was never gonna play ball. So he took it all down at KOTR and went somewhere else.

Yeah dunno what that was all about. Did Savage ever talk about that period? Like did he complain about not being used or something? If not, maybe it was something he asked for, a break from all that stuff while not being shut down completely?

The problem for Show is that he was so good at being somewhat self depreciative and being funny in general but his size and presence mandates that he be a serious monster heel or babyface. It was just too difficult to play both aspects of his character where they could make good money off it. Maybe there was a way to do it but the WWE never figured it out. Look at Andre. He had success in his career in movies but that came in the tail end of his career. The Princess Bride stuff wouldn't have worked for him in wrestling if he did it in 1975 or something.

Wasn't Savage just as big a steroid offender as Hogan and Ultimate Warrior? If the idea is to quickly put the belt on guys the government wouldn't question, Macho Man Randy Savage is not the guy...even if he was slimmed down from an earlier peak form. It just takes an idiot Congressman to put together a 1987 video of Randy Savage and charge the crime to a small 1993 version of Savage regardless.

The USA Network is one of the most hands on networks that are out there. It is one of Universal's prized channels besides NBC. It is absolutely believable to me that they have an unusual interest in what is being aired. They might not have the bigwigs going over minute by minute play by play of RAW but they absolutely have people assigned to tasks of which to keep an eye on the WWE stuff that they put on the network. Because Bonnie Hammer sees RAW in the Attitude Era and the period after as big reasons why she is where she is viewed within the industry (that being a giant in television, always a good thing). It is natural she would want to maintain a continued synergy between herself as a tv exec and the success of RAW and WWE on her networks. That being said, I am not trying to take Vince off the hook here entirely. Of course he bears a great deal of responsibility for what is happening but look at it this way, this is a what, 70 year old guy we are talking about. This is a guy who's mental capacity is likely diminished to some extent in terms of his business mind. He is an old dog here. In the past he might have revelled in Stone Cold stunning everyone figuratively and flipping a bird at everyone who dare challenge him or doubt him but that really isn't what he is about nowadays. He probably still has stubbornness when it comes to presenting a vision, but he is picking his hills to die on more selectively. He doesn't have time to fight everyone who has power and wants to challenge him. It is in the same vein in which explains why he is content riding on the wave of nostalgia. That shit is built up. There's no effort in explaining to the audience why the Rock or DX or whatever are important. He probably doesn't feel like putting that effort in transitioning into entirely depending on newer commodities that requires molding. That shit has to wait for when he does drop dead and the next guy in charge is ready to put his or her stamp on the product with their new energy.

I understand the reasoning. I am just saying at the time obviously there was no social media. That kind of quick title change was never gonna work unless it was a rock star babyface like Hogan in 83 or 84 where the fans were just happy to get on his bandwagon and start rolling.

Didn't help to put the belt on a lukewarm upper midcarder in Bret in an untelevised match in the first place.

I actually think it has gone way past the point of them just asking for them to do something on the show. It looks to me like Bonnie Hammer really wants to be a booker of her own too when it comes to USA properties including Raw. Nothing stays on the channel if she doesn't like it. It is like Bonnie Hammer has only stopped herself short of buying up the whole wrestling company so she could have a better eye and handle on the product like Ted Turner all these years ago with JCP/WCW. I think the deal with WWE and USA is something that is probably slanted in USA's direction. It wasn't Vince who wanted 3 hours. It was Bonnie Hammer. It wasn't Vince who wanted to do all those "special" Raws with reunions of former stars. It was Bonnie Hammer. It probably wasn't Vince who wants the authority shit to continue really, it was Hammer. I think Vince had always thought that when he was written out of the show for the most part, it was meant to blowoff the whole heel authority direction. Look at that Anonymous GM shit with the emails. Why did they do that? So they can continue booking babyfaces to chase and overcome hurdles without throwing heat on anybody (except for Michael Cole I guess). But Hammer wants the familiar old wrinkly faces on the tv fucking with the babyfaces and viewers. Edit- because this post and the last post I made may have contradictions, I want to clarify that in the case of Vince demanding Triple H and Stephanie to be on tv isn't necessarily a situation where he wanted to do it but rather that he feels obligated to listen to what USA wants and follow their requests.

I feel like I've seen tidbits before where Triple H and Stephanie either wanted to scale back on their presence over the product or tone down the heel booking and basically just be guys who dropped by to check in with the show and then make impartial decisions like Tunney used to and Vince overruled them believing they needed to be a big part of the shows and that they be evil authorities since it worked so well for him in the past. Either Vince, or USA Network execs, insisted on it. Obviously because it only does to serve their characters well on a personal level to be booked like it, they aren't fighting back much about it.

I would assume the foremost original plan for Hogan when they decided to do it was for the crowd to appreciate the Real American from making sure that evil foreigner did not get to enjoy a minute of being the champion and that upon his return from Japan that he maybe would finish off the Yokozuna program leading into the Bret scenario at Summerslam (if they are to be believed) but alternatively I think if Vince never intended to go through with the Bret match, I do personally believe Luger would have gotten a big program to help offset the embarrassing cost of his contract with the failure of WBF. Maybe Luger as the heel Narcissist gimmick vs Hulk Hogan?

But to add to that, why even go there? It is like the WWE is cultivating the emotions of a male dominated fanbase to want to see a female get her ass kicked. Why? We are in an age where people are vilified (rightly so) for being domestic abusers so why do we want to create a situation where the "right" payoff in a wrestling storyline is that the female got her ass handed to her? Sure we can hope for alternative payoffs like her being "fired" or be taken off television but that is even less realistic than booking Stone Cold to batter her back with a chair while she is in a lying prone position.

I think if nothing else, NXT has established themselves as a place where people can see the best wrestling show that is not overly micromanaged (like WWE) or horribly mismanaged (like TNA). This is the hottest ticket in town when it comes to pro wrestling right now. And there is actually this implicit level of trust because these guys aren't going anywhere because it IS the top wrestling promotion...even if they are cosplaying an indie fed. The money isn't gonna run out like other companies like ECW faced. The WWE knows how to extend this property out properly...at least for now.

Pretty much. Well said.

It's not about being prone to seizures or being weak, it's about how it is completely unnecessary for someone like him to get slapped around on tv. I realize being part of WWE means something different than being part of ESPN but it is not like she really desperately needs to be doing that to them to get heat or anything. What is wrong with leaving them out of it and finding a way to get heat on her elsewhere? Even Batista who is an actual former wrestler complained about her slaps. They are just totally uncalled for and there is zero chance for retribution due to our society and how we are taught not to go after women especially in this age of heightened awareness towards domestic violence. Seeing this woman slap around guys doesn't do anyone any favors at all.

Yikes. Those Manhattan Center Raws were absolutely brutal. Felt more like a much worse 1 hour version of what WCW Saturday Night ended up being in the end with one or two star appearances via squashes.

Watch wrestling at 3 am while feeding the baby, boom, done.

I think Vince legitimately thought there was a little juice left in having Hogan win the belt, even in 1993. He learned quickly though that even that wasn't worth the trouble with Hogan being an asshole afterwards.

Then again, if Diesel was gonna mow down a guy in 8 seconds, who cares who it was gonna be and who cares what Bret thinks about it?

If that was directed to me, that doesn't really...address anything I asked. Huh? You asked why would Vince care who Bret wanted to drop it too. I said "why not?" and gave examples of the lack of heel depth the roster had. Hence, "why not" let Bret choose who he loses it to, there wasn't a plethora of better options. Ok I guess so but my question was more about the Vince-Bret relationship rather than the dearth of credible heel opponents at the time but I do see what you are saying. Personally might as well just have Owen do it if there is no real intention to go with a heel.