ohtani's jacket

Ventura's run with Tony is as good as anything he did in the WWF. JR's sound bytes are fun to listen to over the top of NBA Jam, but until Tony became a proto-Cole during the Nitro era and JR became good ol' JR, give me Tony or give death. Ross at his worst is a million times worse than Tony. On the Flair/Garvin comp I watched, every match Ross commentated on was the most physical contest he'd ever seen. The bar kept raising when JR was around. He did seem more willing to play off Cornette than Jesse, but then Cornette was an actual in-ring character at the time.

Battle Royal (10/16/85) This was an extraordinarily long battle royal by British wrestling standards. It actually went to a 10 minute draw when most battle royals were over in half that time. That meant a lot of dull battle royal spots, but the TV director tried keeping things interesting by showing close-ups of folks in the crowd. In the end neither Collins nor Bennett could eliminate each other and a sullen looking Bennett took a bit of a swipe at Collins afterward. Mike Bennett vs. Danny Boy Collins (12/19/84) This was joined in progress but it appeared to be Bennett's first appearance on TV since 1979. He was still sporting is natural hair colour hair, so I'm not sure if the Heritage guys have got the timeline right on when he became a heel. Walton mentioned he wasn't behaving like the Bennett he knew, but chalked that up to Bennett being annoyed that a 17 year old was holding the title he'd always wanted. Bennett was strangely obsessed with keeping Collins trapped on the mat in a grovit. It paid off for him when he got the one submission necessary to win, but I don't think it was what the crowd paid for. Mike Bennett vs. Danny Boy Collins (2/12/85) Great bout. The way Bennett attacked his man in this was vicious. He was so quick with his attacks and some of the stuff he was doing was just nasty. He bust Collins' nose up pretty good, which was pretty hardcore considering Collins was still only 17. He had blood smeared over the side of his face and Bennett went after the nose in a way you almost never see in British wrestling. Walton had mentioned that Bennett's daughter was watching at home and really torn because she wanted her dad to win but was one of the greatest Danny Boy Collins fans around. He didn't mention how old she was, but if she was young I wonder how Bennett explained his viciousness to her. The side story to all this was that referee Jeff Kaye was having a torrid time trying to keep Bennett in check and Bennett was becoming increasingly frustrated with Kaye forcing him to break all the time. It came to a head in a rare piece of quality booking from Joint. Bennett thought he had won the title, but Kaye overturned the decision and the bout continued. There were some neat twists and turns down the stretch and it seemed like any number of results were possible. Finally, Bennett was DQ'ed and he immediately ripped into Kaye. He got on the mic and said: "I want you referee." Kaye replied he wasn't one to hide behind the bow tie and would fight Bennett any time he wanted, and that's the next match on the comp. It's rare you see a WoS bout this well booked and the work was awesome enough that I'd put in my top 20 bouts from the 80s without much hesitation. Arthur Psycho uploaded it the other day if anybody wants to check it out:

Side point, but I do think this talking point is generally over played. Abby, Sheik and the Funks were all over huge and those "dry 70s crowds" were borderline hysterical. They might have all been exceptional cases, but it's exactly the same crowd. Yeah, but dry 70s crowds exist. For every hot crowd you can find there's a drier one to match. I think it depends upon the city and prefecture, which is not something people think about much when it comes to Japanese wrestlling compared with the States. I also think wrestling in Japan became more popular as the 70s progressed so I'm not sure I'd say they're the same crowds.

I liked his mid-to-late 70s stuff that was on TWC. Both of his bouts against Pete Roberts are good.

Gregor already mentioned his singles bouts. My favourites are the '93 Estrada bout and the '93 Parka bout from Triplemania. There's a couple of different versions of the latter floating about. Try to find the full version. He's a guy you need to watch en masse to fully appreciate and I don't think YouTube lets you do that. I dunno if it's still up, but search for Blue Panther and Lizmark to find a lucha exchange that shows what he was all about.

Mike Bennett vs. Johnny Kidd (10/16/85) Actually, this is the first disc on the comp. Started watching the second disc first (boy, this thread is going well so far.) This was a short two fall contest with a ten minute duration. Bennett wrapped it up in half that time, but everything he did was slick. Kidd was a stylist in the vein of his mentor and trainer Ken Joyce, but rarely got to show his wares due to his youth and card positioning. Kidd tried out maneuvering Bennett early, but Bennett cut him off and was able to dominate the bout physically. I love how Bennett dyed his eyebrows as well. That's real commitment to the peroxide based heel turn. The only thing Bennett is really lacking when you compare him to the great TV heels is that little bit of extra charisma. He doesn't do a lot of verbal sparring with the crowds and doesn't work the crowd as much as some of the other heels of note, so we'll see how much more of that we get during his TV run.

Mike Bennett vs. Steve Logan (6/26/85) The first match on the comp is the Logan match I reviewed in the Arthur Psycho thread. I told a fib in my opening post as we're greeted by Dick Davies here and the ring even has the World of Sport logo on it, so Bennett was brought in during '85 but before the end of WoS. He basically took Breaks' spot after Jimmy left the small screen in '84. This was just as good as I remembered. It wasn't as jaw droppingly, sit up and make you take notice, good as the first time I watched it since I'd already seen it, but Logan was basically the Brad Armstrong of British wrestling and this was as good a match with Logan as anyone got outside of maybe that one long Pat Roach bout. Bennett was a dynamo on offense and defense and did enough to convince me he was an all-rounder.

I could be, and probably am, wrong, but that's my impression of listening to Bret all these years and watching his matches. I suspect Bret's pride in himself as a worker is that you could put him in the ring with anyone and he could have a good match with anyone. If he was more interested in working with good talent, he didn't seem that way during his peak years. He should have jumped to WCW in '92 if that was what was motivating him.

You were into that, but how many of your friends were? It's a certain type of personality that's into history and what came before. I'm 36 and the majority of the people I know in the same age range have contemporary interests. They're into modern TV series and modern films whereas I stopped watching new things a decade ago. You can see it as plain as day on this board who follows the modern scene and who doesn't. There's a jumping off point for everyone and a certain type of personality that's a history buff. Also, if you're interested in the past, the internet has been a Godsend. I also have fond memories of the anticipation of buying a tape and everything. but likewise I can remember the massive amount of tapes I didn't buy because I didn't have the money or the currency rate was so bad. 99% of shit back then was unattainable or inaccessible and something you either heard or read about. Sure it was exciting if you managed to find something you always wanted to see, but it was also a pain in the arse. I wouldn't trade the internet for anything.

I still say it's wrong. Every generation go through the same thing. Feeling like younger kids don't know anything is just an indicator that we're getting old. I also think the whole argument is dictated by what the TV stations chose to run. Just because the TV stations in NZ ran old episodes of Get Smart when I was a kid, or the Thunderbirds, or M*A*S*H, The Mary Tyler Moore Show, The Flintstones, Batman, or Mork and Mindy, doesn't mean I was really part of the shared cultural cache of the 60s or 70s. When I was a kid, we watched whatever was on TV in re-runs, but we primarily into the *now* the same way kids today are. It was the same in the 90s. If you asked a kid in the 90s who was watching Beverly Hills 90210 or Melrose Place about Peyton Place they wouldn't have a clue. I get what you're saying about technological changes and the decline in television viewing as we knew it, but your grandparents could say the same about radio, and my sister, who's six years younger than me, waxs lyrically about early 00s trends that passed me by. In conclusion, we are old.

A while back, I discovered a guy who was potentially the last great super worker of British television wrestling: a rule-bender by the name of "Marvellous" Mike Bennett. I was so impressed by his bout with Steve Logan that I picked up a two-disc comp of every Bennett match to make time and promptly found no time to watch it. Now that I've caught up with the Arthur Psycho channel this is my new British wrestling baby. Bennett made his debut in March 1964 when he was 18 years old and was a blue-eye in the early part of his career. Despite appearing on TV fairly regularly in the 60s, he disappeared from the small screen in the 70s and only made sporadic appearances through the decade. At some point he took on a heel persona, dying his hair and handwriting the nickname "Marvellous" on his tights as well as well as his ring towels. It was similar in spirit to one of the hardest working showmen of the era, Brian Maxine. For some reason or another, Bennett didn't have a huge television presence at the turn of the decade, presumably because he was working for the independents, but when World of Sport was cancelled in 1985 and wrestling became a stand alone show, Crabtree brought Bennett into the fold and gave him a pretty solid push as a television heel personality. If you know anything about World of Sport wrestling, you'll know it was populated by a colorful array of heel characters -- Sid Cooper, Brian Maxine, Adrian Street, Bobby Barnes, Jim Breaks, Mick McManus, Mark Rocco, Giant Haystacks and Kendo Nagasaki to name a few -- but by the mid-80s much of that "heel depth" had been eroded by the jumps to Brian Dixon's All-Star Promotions. Rocco was gone. Breaks was gone. John Quinn was gone. Finlay worked for everyone, Skull Murphy was knocking about, and there were stalwarts like Tally Ho Kaye and Sid Cooper, but nobody who made the nation stop at 4pm like the glory days. Bennett could hardly be expected to recapture that glory, but for a while he got to be the man on the small screen while giving the Bristol boys Crabtree was desperate to push such as Ritchie Brooks and Danny Boy Collins a viable foil. Let's check him out.

Well, Benoit completely modeled himself after DK so that's s bit different.

You could say the same for dry 70s crowds and any number of touring wrestlers whose heel work met with crickets. I don't think there's anything particularly special about that in regard to the modern era. The homage vs. tradition debate is interesting. I think CM Punk was way too on the nose with his homages and I'm sure there are other workers like that.

I dunno if I buy New Japan being post-modern. They tend to have these epic matches in front of small crowds and creates a weird juxtaposition. If they were playing to bigger crowds I think it would seem more natural. The make-up of the crowds is wildly different from the golden years as well. Not much has changed in regard to the presentation other than a bit more video technology being used. The hairstyles follow Japanese fashion trends. I think Arena Mexico and WWE arena set-ups are far more sterile than the New Japan set-up, which is still fairly traditional.

I talked myself into watching Hansen's entire run with Spivey, but gave up about two matches in. I'm sure it got better at some point, but Hansen's work wasn't at all good in the matches I saw.

My theory about Bret has always been that he preferred working against less talented guys. I reckon he got a bigger kick out of carrying them than he did working with top level guys.

THE ARTHUR PSYCHO HOUR Ep 50 Ian McGregor vs. Ray Robinson (8/7/86) This was the final for the Jolly Fisherman trophy. A trophy that looked like something you'd find at a rummage sale or white elephant stall. I like both these guys but this was a dull and listless bout. There was a big fuss made about how it was supposed to be the second semi-final, but Bernie Wright had been DQ'ed in the first semi and the winner, Greg Valentine, withdrew with an injury so it automatically became the final. Then they wrestled to a draw and Walton assumed the ref would decide the winner on points, but the local dignitary presenting the trophy, Leslie Shepherd, the Director of Leisure and Tourism at East Lindsey District Council no less, said they'd make a second trophy for the men to share. I wonder whatever became of the Jolly Fisherman trophy. When wrestling fans from the UK say this stuff is too British at times this has got to be what they mean. Greg Valentine vs. Rex Lane (12/16/87) Sid Cooper vs. Andy Blair (12/16/87) Greg Valentine vs. Sid Cooper (12/16/87) Psycho is pretty cynical about this Gala Cup tournament calling it the "Something for Greg Valentine To Win Trophy tournament." Some ex-wrestler in the comments section says that Valentine wasn't very popular with the boys, but I guess there aren't too many promoter's sons who are well liked among the boys. I don't mind him as a worker, but I did notice him over doing it with the victory poses in this. This was all pretty straightforward compared to the Jolly Fisherman malarkey Big Daddy/Ringo Rigby vs. John Quinn/Mark Rocco (4/24/79) This was from Cup Final Day 1979 and one of the better Daddy tags of the era. The Ringo vs. Rocco sections were great and left me hankering for a singles match between them, which I think could have been pretty great in 1979.

Ozaki is definitely one of the better actors in wrestling. Really phenomenal talent who will probably get undersold on the final list. There are a lot of interesting wrinkles to that tag. Kansai and Ozaki were career rivals who tore strips off each other in their home promotion of JWP, but teamed up to defend its honour against the larger AJW organisation, which could have swallowed JWP whole if it wanted to. Ozaki was a heel in JWP, though an extremely popular one due to her charisma, and Kansai was the ace. I always thought she did a remarkable job of projecting herself as ace of such a small company. Toyota and Yamada had been positioned as the latest idol team ala Beauty Pair & Crush Girls (cute girl paired with sporty type), but without the schoolgirl audience they were forced to get over in a different manner. They had a competitive rivalry the same as Beauty Pair and the Crush Girls but without the hatred of Kansai vs. Ozaki. The reason Yamada has a shaved head in the bout is that she'd lost a hair vs hair match to Toyota a few months prior. They were the reigning WWWA tag champions at the time, which was the big prize in this feud besides JWP's fight for recognition. From memory, quite a few of the JWP girls were AJW rejects so there was a bit of real life feeling behind it. I'm pretty sure both Kansai and Ozaki were All Japan rejects.

A week-to-week review of Casas' work would take years to finish. The only person I can imagine who's seen that amount of Casas is Bihari. His career from 2009 or so has been covered in depth and his 90s stuff has been fairly well combed. I actually think it's his 2000-08 period that's a blind spot, or at least a blind spot for me. I would strongly recommend anybody who enjoys a Casas match on Chad's list to go and watch the trios matches surrounding it. If you're not watching the lead in matches, you're only getting half the fun.

I think Nagasaki's a decent worker both on the mat and as a brawler. His matches in the 70s got a tremendous amount of heat and he had an awesome finisher. But there's guys who haven''t been nominated whom I think are better.

Sloppy is probably the wrong choice of words, but I don't really rate Anjoh on the mat and Tamura wasn't as slick as he'd become. I like Anjoh as a striker and the match picked up for me when he started threatening with the knee.

Great thread, elliot. You're way higher on young Tamura than me. Just to check whether I'm crazy or not, I re-watched that Anjoh match, which I've always thought was sloppy and overly long. Anjoh is a guy who I think is a fine worker but completely overrated as a shoot stylist. I can imagine people who don't have a bug up their arse (like me) thinking their draw is epic, but to me it's s stop start average affair. Then again you thought his Sakuraba stuff was fun when to me it was the future, so folks' mileage is always gonna vary on shoot style stuff.

Some final thoughts on Flair vs. Garvin then. I guess it goes without saying that I preferred the '85-85 stuff. Garvin made the best of his lot in '87 despite not being a naturally strong promo, but Flair was disappointing throughout, and the booking of hi immediately challenging for the belt and reprising "A Flair for the Gold" from five years earlier made Garvin look two bit. As for whether Garvin was one of Flair's best opponents, I'd say he was one of Flair's best TV opponents but not really one of his better arena opponents. The '85 studio bout is the pinnacle of what they achieved together. The booking, promos and matches weren't strong enough for it to be an all-time great feud, but at the same time the journey was enjoyable when they'd slap the shit out of each other or deliver an impassioned promo. Glad I watched it, but would probably only revisit the early stuff.

Flair/Arn/Tully/Luger vs. Garvin/Windham/R&R, CWF, 11/21/87 The disc said this was from 11/28, but the commentary talks about Starrcade being a few days later so I figure it aired on the 21st. Looks great on paper -- actually, it looks amazing on paper -- but it's fluff. Ric Flair vs. Ronnie Garvin, 11/26/87 This was all right. I think I liked it more when I hadn't seen the entire two year build to it. It's easy to watch a match like Starrcade '87 in isolation and think "oh, that's nowhere near as bad as people say," and to an extent it isn't, but it's not some under-appreciated, under-pimped gem either. The biggest problem is that the crowd is dead and therefore it's hard for them to have a match as intense as the '85 studio bout, which remains the gold standard of Flair vs. Garvin bouts, but they don't really aim high either. You can't really argue that they go to the end of the line to determine who the better man is. They put more effort into that '86 Omni closer than they did here. Pretty much anything that was good about this was a tried and true Flair/Garvin sequence and the whole "Flair as challenger" slant sells Garvin short, IMO. Ross is terrible on commentary. The seeds of Ross at his worse during the Attitude Era were there as early as the UWF buyout and perhaps even earlier. I actually felt kind of bad for Garvin when he dropped the title knowing that a simple job like that was pretty much it for his competitive career. Perhaps the worst thing of all was that he really didn't get to show all that passion and determination that he'd conveyed during the build-up because the match didn't push the workers any further than a run-of-the-mill bout despite Ross trying to tell us it was one of the most important victories of the Nature Boy's career and the most physical contest he'd seen since the week before. Ric Flair promo, WCW, 11/28/87 Flair's the five time Word Champion, and while he claims he's going to be more obnoxious and overbearing than ever before, he does give Garvin credit for having been a World Champion. Mostly, he runs down the Starrcade results, talks up the Horsemen results and downplays Luger's loss to Dusty. And that's the end of the feud.

THE ARTHUR PSYCHO HOUR Ep 49 Battle Royal (8/2/78) This was an amusing little battle royal with a six man field of Pete Kaye, Jackie Turpin, Johnny England, Kid Chocolate, Young David and Bernie Wright. Apparently, it was the first time they'd run one of these on TV. Joint had this strange habit of running singles matches first and then lumping everyone in to the battle royal to cap things off, but I guess that's what happens with foreign imports. The match came down to Young David against Tally Ho Kaye and Johnny England. The heels gave Davey Boy Smith the heave-ho and Kaye eliminated England from behind while Johnny was posing. You've got to love heels deceiving each other like that. There's no honour among thieves, Johnny England. No honour among thieves! Rasputin vs. Andy Blair (4/11/84) Rasputin was being billed as Sean Doyle here even though Walton mentioned on commentary that he sometimes went by the name of Rasputin hence why he wore a monk's habit. This was part of a Northern Ireland vs. Scotland special that Northern Ireland whitewashed 3-0. Poor old Scotland. I could never understand why they'd always do whitewashes instead of making it 1-1 and having a decider. I guess they found it more realistic this way and would occasionally throw in a decider. Rasputin was better here than he'd be later on. Grasshopper vs. Black Jack Mulligan (6/16/82) Last few minutes of a nothing bout. Mulligan usually made guys look like a million bucks but not on this occasion. Tony St. Clair vs. The Barbarian (Eurosport circa 1991) Dave Taylor vs. The Barbarian (Eurosport circa 1991) A couple of matches with Dave Sullivan. Pretty much what you'd expect. Fit Finlay vs. Doink the Clown (Bremen, taped 12/17/94) This is the kind of match where you think "awesome, Finlay vs. Doink in Germany" and then it's not that awesome. I don't think this was Matt Bourne, but I doubt it would have made much difference if it were. Crowd was anti-Doink. Dick Slater vs. Franz Schumann (Bremen, taped 12/17/94) Holy shit, Schumann was ripping Bret Hart off like you wouldn't believe. Might as well have called him Franz "The Hitman" Hart. I guess Bret was pretty big in places like Germany and Austria kind of on a par with David Hasselhoff. If we have fake Undertakers and fake Road Warriors why not a fake Bret? Match was nothing special, but Schumann did go to the effort to blade so I guess that's something.