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Everything posted by ohtani's jacket
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Calling six man tags "Trios" OUTSIDE the context of Lucha
ohtani's jacket replied to David Mantell's topic in Pro Wrestling
It's just a loan word. We use English words all the time to describe things that have their own names in overseas wrestling territories. Other countries use their own terms to describe American wrestling. Do you get upset when the French refer to American wrestling as Catch? -
Calling six man tags "Trios" OUTSIDE the context of Lucha
ohtani's jacket replied to David Mantell's topic in Pro Wrestling
Well, technically Relevos australianos are trios matches under captain's rules, but I don't think too many people pay attention to that stipulation. A three person team is a trio, and when they compete in a match with another trio, they have a trios match. -
Blue Panther vs. Super Astro (AAA October 18th, 1992) The build up to this match wasn't anywhere near as good as the Azteca match, but this ended up being the better of the two titles matches. It was surprisingly slow for a AAA, and Super Astro, match, but the ringwork was fascinating. Panther was in his element here. Anyone who complains about lucha not having believable psychology, selling or transitions needs to study Panther's performance in this bout. Those terms are probably outdated in 2025, but Panther was basically on song here. I thought he was doing his goofy overselling on one spot until I realized that it was a theme throughout the bout. He had a tendency to sell having his head slammed into the canvas like he was Curt Hennig pinballing off a lariat, but it was centered around Super Astro's tope, and the payoffs were sublime. You kind of have to take an old-school approach to flat back bumps meaning as much as they do in this bout, but they are consistent with the narrative and I didn't have a problem with that particular part of the bout. The best thing about the bout is that it's competitive in a way that all title bouts should be. There is an outstanding nearfall in the tercera that has you mentally counting along with the ref, and even the match winning fall has a fantastic leverage moment. I have no problem with anyone calling this a 4 star lucha match. I thought it was one of the best Panther performances I've seen albeit in a different way from someone like Santo. If I'd never revisited this, I would have probably dismissed it in an offhand way. I do have some questions surrounding why Panther can be so brilliant in this match yet barely there in trios bouts, but I no longer have any doubts over his wrestling IQ.
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Pantera Del Ring & Solar I & Súper Astro vs. Blue Panther & Ice Killer I & Jerry Estrada (AAA, 10/2/92) This was more of a spectacle than the previous match, but still not a great match. Panther and Astro worked a nice back and forth lucha exchange early on, but their brawling was fairly generic. Solar had some fantastic exchanges with Ice Killer, of all people. Folks always ask what Solar's best matches are. The truth is we don't really know whether Solar had great singles matches or not. What we do know is that if you watch sequences like Solar vs. Ice Killer, you get a picture of why people regard him as an outstanding worker. Monterrey star, Pantera Del Ring, has some decent exchanges with Estrada, but it's mostly Solar, and Astro and Panther, that carry this bout.
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Do the clips!
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Catch TV in Switzerland, Luxembourg and Monaco (1950s-1960s)
ohtani's jacket replied to Phil Lions's topic in Pro Wrestling
If you didn't have to mortgage your soul to get anything out of the Archive, we'd have more 60s footage available. They keep changing the rules about who can access the stuff, too. For a while, they allowed private use, but now it's back to business use only. A few years back, you had to pay an exorbitant fee just to get them to search for a match. It's probably better now that they've digitalized a lot of the reels, but a single match generally costs hundreds of pounds to acquire. Who wants to pay that much for a match of unknown quality or length? -
Catch TV in Switzerland, Luxembourg and Monaco (1950s-1960s)
ohtani's jacket replied to Phil Lions's topic in Pro Wrestling
That's too bad. Makes you grateful for what we do have from the INA. -
Catch TV in Switzerland, Luxembourg and Monaco (1950s-1960s)
ohtani's jacket replied to Phil Lions's topic in Pro Wrestling
So, what are the Swiss TV archives like? Any chance some of this stuff exists? -
Catch TV in Switzerland, Luxembourg and Monaco (1950s-1960s)
ohtani's jacket replied to Phil Lions's topic in Pro Wrestling
Look at all those Tibor Szakacs matches teasing us. -
This was the semi-final of the Leyenda de Plata tournament. It was basically a warm up for their mask match, but decent enough. Black Warrior was a solid matchup for Mistico, though I'm not sure losing his mask did any favors for his career. He probably would have been better off staying masked. He was a real dick to KeMonito while Mistico was backstage getting a new mask. Mistico returning to the match by jumping off the top of the entrance stage was a total WWE move but well executed. Mistico's signature stuff looked good, especially the plancha that they replayed a million times. You wish he'd spent more time in jeopardy, but superheroes are gonna superhero.
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Hijo del Santo/Octagon/Super Astro vs. Blue Panther/Hijo del Diablo/Fuerza Guerrera (AAA 9/27/92) Moving on to the Super Astro program. This was clipped so it was hard to make out what was going on at first. What was shown was below average. Super Astro and Panther brawled a bit and did some signature Super Astro stuff. Astro got the pin on Panther and began gesturing for a title bout. Kind of a boring way to jump start the feud. Disappointing considering both Fuerza and Santo were involved. Panther and Astro are an interesting match-up, though, as they're similar body types.
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Actually, my favorite thing about the match was the guy waving at the television camera at the end and the commentator gesturing at him to get lost. Fans and commentators, the same the world over.
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Franz van Buyten vs. Luc Verhaegue (10/2/82) There wasn't a lot to this, but any time we get a new van Buyten match it's a good day. I hate heel refs. i don't care how much they rile up the audience, the heat should be on the wrestlers not the ref. I'm sure most folks appreciate the carnival aspects of a match like this, but personally I thought van Buyten was wasted on a sideshow like this, and put forward more effort than the match deserved. I did like his creative use of the ropes to break the chokehold, though.
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Blue Panther vs. Angel Azteca (AAA, September 13th, 1992) This was a very good match. A lowkey great match even, depending on how you feel about heel refs. It was structured in an unusual way for a lucha title match. Some of it made sense in the context of the build-up and some of it was the workers mixing things up. I liked the fact that the primera caida went long. They teased Azteca winning it quickly, but as far as I'm concerned if both wrestlers are fresh then it ought to be harder to win a fall. Panther was good throughout this bout, but he did some weird selling at times. The tercera had a steady stream of drama, and I liked how hard both men were working. I have no idea why this was the end of the road for Azteca as far as big single matches went. There was nothing in the bout to suggest that he shouldn't have continued to have bouts like this throughout the 90s. From a Panther point of view, it's not as good as the '91 classic against Atlantis, but one of his better 90s singles matches on tape. Worth watching but not iconic.
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Ha, no. More to come.
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1951.2.16 Vic Hessle vs. Georges Freymond 1951.3.30 Vic Hessle vs. Jack LaRue 1951.10.5 Vic Hessle vs. Deo Crasti The more Hessle I watch, the more impressed I am. This guy was a phenomenal brawler and fantastic at selling. He's so intense and such a tough bastard that it seems like every opponent hates his guts. The animosity in the Crasti match was so intense it felt real. He works holds too, and man do they look like they hurt. And he bumps like a madman too. He nearly broke his neck doing an injury finish (of all things.) Every now and again, there are flashes of Faulker and Royal. His finisher is incredible and looks like it devastates his opponent's leg. The LaRue clip is excellent, but the Crasti clip is one of the best pieces of business I've seen in a long time. Some of the best fights in the catch collection, IMO.
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Which luchadores are you ranking (2026 edition)?
ohtani's jacket replied to cad's topic in Greatest Wrestler Ever
Here are a few: Black Man Shu el Guerrero José Luis Feliciano Cassandro Pimpinela Escarlata Scorpio Jr Freelance Stuka Babe Face El Signo Halloween Damian 666 Mascara Ano 2000 Apolo Dantes Valiente Super Parka Zumbido Ultimo Guerrero Mano Negra Charles Lucero Rey Hechicero Villano IV Arandu -
1950.2.17 Jean Jourlin vs. Vic Hessle 1950.3.3 Jean Jourlin vs. Vic Hessle 1950.10.20 Jean Jourlin vs. Vic Hessle 1951.1.12 Felix Lamban vs. Vic Hessle Vic Hessle was the father of Bert Royal and Vic Faulkner. We already had a tag match of his from the archives, but this is a chance to see him in singles action. He was a top guy for Goldstein for around a decade. For that reason, perhaps, several of the clips run around 6-6 minutes long. Just as Dory Funk Sr wrestled more like Terry than Junior, Hessle is more reminiscent of Vaulker than Royal. He's a highly charismatic brawler, who is constantly moving and doing something of interest. I think he'd be a favorite of Matt. Just when you think he wasn't as skilled as his boys technically, he works the mat with Lamban and looks pretty good. I haven't finished all of the footage yet but he struck me as a highly versatile and entertaining performer. I would put him in the same category as Jack Dale and Tommy Mann. The value of these clips is seeing the Catch world expand, and filling in the pre-1956 gaps. The 1950s is my favorite era for catch, and it would appear that Hessle was a bigger player in that era than I imagined.
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Which luchadores are you ranking (2026 edition)?
ohtani's jacket replied to cad's topic in Greatest Wrestler Ever
That was a great post. It reminds me of the essence of lucha libre -- guys who are awesome in random trios matches and make you wanna track down everything they've ever done. I might hit you up with some names after you've done with your list. -
Angel Azteca/Solar/Super Astro vs. Blue Panther/El Cobarde/El Indomito (AAA, September 6th, 1992) This didn't look like much on paper, but Cobarde and Indomito ended up being the best partners Panther had during the lead-in to his title match with Azteca. Instead of Solar/Panther, they started off with Solar/Cobarde, which was actually pretty good. That's partly because Solar is underrated as a trios worker, but also because Cobarde was an old-school guy who knew how to work. All of his work in this match is textbook lucha. Indominto vs. Super Astro was so much fun! Honestly, it was the most fun I've had watching Super Astro in a long time. I'm kind of hoping these guys have some other matches together as they were terrific dance partners. Panther vs. Azteca was red hot whenever they'd work lucha exchanges. Azteca's intensity and quickness were through the roof. They got bogged down in some mask ripping, and Azteca's comeback was similar to the previous two matches, but even the business end of this was entertaining with some fun dives. Azteca, Solar and Super Astro make for a fun Space Cadets style trio. It's a shame that there wasn't more done with them.
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1947.1.15 Henri Deglane vs. Yvar Martinson 1947.2.10 Henri Deglane vs. Charles Rigoulot 1947.5.19 Henri Deglane vs. Yvar Martinson 1947.11.3 Henri Deglane vs. Hans Buesing 1948.12.6 Henri Deglane vs. Jim Burnett 1949.11.21 Henri Deglane vs. Frank Valois 1950.1.23 Frank Sexton vs. Henri Deglane 1950.9.24 Henri Deglane vs. Al Cabrol There was nothing too revelatory about Deglane in these clips. He tended to work a hard, clean match against top French talent like Martinson and Rigoulot, and more heated bouts with foreigners. There were a few exciting pull-aparts after the bout, and Deglane worked some fun boxing spots with Cabrol. He was older than dirt, but fairly solid for a guy right at the end of his career. I was impressed by Frank Sexton, who came across as flashy and stylish, and greatly surprised by Frank Valois. That clip ran about six minutes and was a hard fought bout. My image of Valois was from the Andre bout, so I wasn't expecting such a suave and skilled worker. That Andre bout was from 20 years later, so it's hardly a shock, but the clips definitely left me wanting to see more Valois whereas before I thought he was skippable..
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Angel Azteca/Solar/Super Astro vs. Blue Panther/La Parka/Rambo (AAA August 30th, 1992) This starts off with an extended mat exchange between Solar and Panther that is easily the best thing Panther has been involved in since I starting watching these matches. It's mostly led by Solar, but that's largely because it's a tecnico driven fall. The others mostly do standard lucha exchanges, but there's some novelty in seeing matchups you don't see every day of the week such as Rambo vs. Super Astro. Angel Azteca gets to shine a bit offensively at the beginning of the match, but he spends most of the bout being beaten up by the rudos and having his mask ripped. He's awesome during the tecnico comeback ,and awesome at getting his revenge on Panther for ripping open his mask. Panther's brawling is ok, but again everything about Azteca screams star.
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I always loved that song. It reminds me of Honda Minako. Mimi wasn't a bad singer either.
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Which luchadores are you ranking (2026 edition)?
ohtani's jacket replied to cad's topic in Greatest Wrestler Ever
Herodes was one of the guys I was waiting to see. I'd be interested to hear if you have any workhorse or journeyman favorites. -
Angel Azteca/Misterioso/Volador vs. Blue Panther/Fishman/Mascara Ano 2000 (AAA, August 14th, 1992) You would think that a title match feud would be more up Panther's alley, but straight away they work this like an apuestas feud. I usually despise it when a title match feud is worked like an apuestas feud, especially when they start ripping at each other's masks, but this match had two things going for it. First of all, the crowd was red hot. There's something to be said for Pena taking TV out of Mexico City to areas like this. Secondly, Angel Azteca led a fantastic tecnico comeback. I thought he was far better than Panther in this match. It reminded me of the incredible potential he had. I honestly think if he had continued on this trajectory, he'd be as well regarded as Santo and Atlantis.