ohtani's jacket

I also watched Heenan/Warrior and the simple fact is it's just not that funny.

Perhaps there are differences between Japanese and American comedy? Comedy dominates a large chunk of Japanese prime time, but they don't have sitcoms. Quirky, off-beat dramas sometimes, but no real sitcoms. It's mostly variety shows hosted by famous Japanese comedians, with the roots in Manzai, which is an Abbott and Costello style double act as opposed to stand-up comedy in the States. I've been in the audience during comedy matches at Joshi and Osaka Pro shows and the comedy has a Manzai feel to it. There's also plenty of audience participation. The humour in these cases is often a parody of pro-wrestling, whereas comedy spots in the US (at least in the major promotions, not the indies) is often situation comedy such as a spot in a Midnight Express match. It's quite different from a match where Kellett or Hirota break the fourth wall almost in terms of talking to the ref, their opponent, the audience, making gags in the middle of holds, doing joke spots. Bobby Heenan bumping and stooging is not really in the same category as the comedy matches from Britain or Japan.

Could be the venue size or it could be that the British workers were actually funny.

British crowds used to laugh en masse at Kellet, Breaks, Catweazle, Pallo, Johnny Kwango, Billy Torontos, Vic Faulkner, Masambula, Johnny Czeslaw and a host of others.

Stan Hansen vs. Sgt. Slaughter (2/2/86) When you need to convince yourself that a dream match is just going to be a good, regular match and then you have to convince yourself that the regular match is good, you know you're looking at a disappointment. Stan Hansen vs. Leon White (3/13/86) It was weird seeing Vader with hair here. Man, was he green. I couldn't understand why Hansen gave him so much of the match as he looked so poor working from the top. I guess most people like Hansen's US work better than me, but it's really not that strong. Feels like a fairly sizable chink in his case for GOAT. I'm not a big fan of Flair's work in Japan, but it's clearly better than Hansen's work Stateside, if you want to make that comparison, though to be fair Flair got to work title matches for the most part.

Vader was awful at shoot style.

The Kinks song was Death of a Clown. Smokey Robinson and the Miracles did Tears of a Clown.

Steve Regal vs. Indio Guajaro (10/15/89) A few minutes worth of clips, mostly of both guys delivering body shots, but fun while it lasted. Steve Regal vs. Rene Lasartesse (10/18/89) This was over way too quickly, either by editing or by design, but I don't think it's much of a surprise that this was the first Rene Lasartesse match I've enjoyed in a while. Regal was already a talent here and his big uppercut based comeback against Lasartesse was the birth of cool. Wish we had this in full.

Marty Jones vs. Chic Cullen (1/24/84) Marty Jones vs. Chic Cullen (3/14/85) These guys didn't match up as well as I would've liked, which was a shame because Cullen was one of the few genuinely good workers who debut in the 80s. Some of the sequences they do are out of this world, particularly in the second bout which is the better of the two, but there wasn't the same intensity or friction as Jones' feuds with Rocco and Finlay and both matches have weak finishes. The highlight of the match-up is probably Jones' dropkick in the first match. Marty Jones has to be a contender for best dropkick in the business.

Jim Breaks vs. Young David (12/19/79) This is the third in a trilogy of Jim Breaks vs. Young David matches available, two of which aired on TWC and one that was taped from the original broadcast. This is the original broadcast match and completes the picture of Breaks vs. Young David being the best example of how good a worker Breaks was. There's obviously better grappling in his matches against Saint and Grey, but there's a real magic to the dynamic between Breaks the veteran, who is second only to McManus as the man they love to hate, and this scrawny kid who can't even shave yet. Add Alan Dennison to the kid's corner, all pumped up and urging the kid on, and you have another fantastic bout between the two. The matches which aired in full are more epic, but this fits nicely between the two and has an absolutely wonderful finish, as for a brief moment Young David wins the belt and gets a tremendous ovation and post-match celebration. Moments like that were pretty rare in World of Sport, which made it all the more special. Unfortunately, Breaks disputed the pinfall and the belt was held-up, which led to a Breaks vs. Dennison program I believe, but it doesn't happen on tape so you can just enjoy one of the feel good moments of the era instead.

I think we've all made our point now, but the thread made it pretty implicit that not everybody thinks it's great.

Mick McManus vs. Mick McMichael (9/26/74) Wonderful performance from McManus. A real clinic in how he used all of his tricks and inside moves to tell a compelling narrative against just about any opponent. You could argue that his matches are "McManus--centric," but in all honestly I've seen McMichael wrestle at least half a dozen times and this was the first time I was interested in him. The match didn't go the distance in terms of rounds and ended up being the kind of easy victory you often see for Tibor Szakacs, Mike Marino or Brian Maxine, but it was highly entertaining and surprise, surprise, it took place at Gravesend. Mick McManus vs. Kid Chocolate (aired 1/17/81) This was pretty good for a 1980s McManus bout. Mick had to be pushing about 60 here but had lost none of his guile. The Mick McManus story is a fascinating one. For the uninitiated I recommend reading this article -- http://www.wrestlingheritage.co.uk/themanwelovedtohate.htm All told, this was probably the best 80s bout McManus had (at least that I've seen), but I have a bit of a problem with a guy as good as Kid Chocolate being such a JTTS. His involvement was limited here, but in fairness to McManus, Kid seemed to lack the drive to be a star. I love how when McManus was confident he'd sky hook his towel. Legend.

Ric Flair hardly invented the role, so the argument must be that he somehow played it wrong or that the role was flawed in the first place. I think it's strange that Horsemen Flair, Tully and Arn who could bitch and stooge as well as they delivered a beat down aren't praised for their range.

He's a heel, he shows ass sometimes. But if you look at the whole package including the promos and the TV and everything, do you really think Flair gets ridiculed and humiliated in the ring during his pomp? Maybe he gets shown up from time to time, but it's the belt that makes Flair tick as Randy Savage said. Flair's a guy who can have his trunks pulled down and bare his lilly white ass and not act ashamed because he walked away the champion. I mean this was a guy who did do violent things to people both in and out of the ring. If he's a clown then so is Terry Funk or Stan Hansen or Negro Casas or Satanico or anyone who can actually perform.

But if you have an issue with playing the bitch you should have an issue with it across the board. It seems strange to me that it's only an issue with main eventers or specifically Flair. I suppose everyone has their own set of expectations about how a world champion should wrestle and behave, but I kind of wonder how tailored wrestling is to the tastes of people who are bothered by theatrics.

Well, they fawned over him because he was the champ. They'd be pretty lousy commentators if they didn't fawn over him, but are you saying that you can't play the bitch in the main event? What is the ideal NWA heel champ if not Flair?

Seriously ? Flair going to the tope rope only to get thrown out every damn time (as a heel at least), Flair choping no-selling Sting or Luger with him looking like a complete idiot and begging off like a clown, Flair bumping for the referee. Seriously ? Come on... ANd I don't even talk about the entire figure-four deal that John described in details earlier on. I never thought it made his opponent look technically sound to the point he could reverse the dreaded hold applied by the master, it only made Ric Flair look like a complete fool. In term of psychology, Flair's use of the figure four was not much different from "you can't powerbomb Kidman", really (which, surprisingly, hasn't annoyed me that much on rewatch). Flair was supposed to be the master, but anyone that was above JTTS level reversed it the exact same way to the exact same result. It didn't make the opponent look specifically good, it made for a fun spot that the crowd loved because Flair looked like a fool and he sold it like a bitch. Flair was the bitch of all bitches, and he was great at it. I don't think it made him look foolish. Maybe it embarrassed him at times, maybe he was scared he was going to lose the title, but Flair was no fool in the ring. A comedy worker like Billy Torontos, now that guy was a fool in the ring. When Ric Flair gets the figure four reversed (or put on him), it's sold as dead serious. Flair sells the absolute crap out of it. He sells like he's in agony not stooging. The crowd don't think it's a joke; it's a pivotal moment in the match that smart fans got tired of because they saw it a million times. If there were 20 odd Flair matches on tape, they might not be so cynical about it.

The people watching know that Flair isn't a coward or a fool because in every single Flair match the commentators put over how good you have to be to be the champion, how tough the travel schedule is, and how much his opponents want to win the gold. They also mention other things like the plane crash or how he's a sixty minute man. I don't think anyone ever had the impression that Flair was a fool. What Flair was was cocky and arrogant and what he did in the ring was get his comeuppance by being whipped from pillar to post. I don't see it as any different to people giving McManus' cauliflower ears a going over, Jim Breaks throwing a tantrum in the ring or Bobby Barnes being livid because some wrestler kissed him. You look at Flair's spots as a bit of humour or something that gets the crowd going, the question is how big a part of his work are they. If someone says that all Flair did was "play the bitch" then I'm not sure I would agree with that. I think it was a bit more nuanced than that. He's obviously synonymous with it because he's Ric Flair. I think it has more to do with his profile than how many spots he had. Tully Blanchard played the bitch arguably just as much as Flair with even less offense and nobody picks Blanchard apart.

Added -- Tibor Szakacs vs. Prince Kumali (2/13/75) This was awesome. Finally, another Szakacs bout I could really sink my teeth into. This had almost the near perfect build to his back chop, including one wild swinging attempt that nearly took referee Max Ward's head off. Plenty of niggle in this one with both guys refusing to break in the ropes and Ward having to dish out public warnings to both guys. In between the antagonism, there was some fantastic wrestling with Szakacs busting out even more tricks than usual. He was almost like a Hungarian Dos Casas at times. Another great thing about this was that the crowd were intently looking on. Gravesend is just about my favourite town for WoS. There were certainly louder halls, but I don't know if any of them enjoyed their wrestling more. I was a little nervous that they were going to do a cop out finish but the finish this time was great. This was rad.

Franz van Buyten vs. Terry Rudge (Hamburg 9/11/90) This wasn't anywhere near the class of their '87 match but still it was Terry Rudge in Germany, which is like watching Fujiwara in a shoot style setting or Satanico in a singles match. The major problem was simply the length at a little over 10 minutes compared with their epic from '87.

Marty Jones vs. Pete Roberts (6/27/79) This was another example of a good Pete Roberts match. It was the final of a tournament for some "Dale Martin Trophy" that they added to the already stacked Wembley Arena card and like everyone else on the bill (save Daddy) they went all out to have a good match. The work wasn't as outstanding as Rudge vs. Roberts, but it had the same general level of excitement. Having such a hot crowd helped and the pop for the finish was one of the biggest I've heard in British wrestling. Like Rudge against Kilby, Marty played the aggressor, which is something they did quite a bit of in the halls apparently when they had face vs. face match-ups. Easily the best of the three or more Roberts/Jones matches I've seen from what was, surprisingly, not that strong a match-up.

The begging off was only a ploy in the early going. Deeper into a match, he'd oftentimes beg off for real.

All good points. I guess it's the wearing down the opponent strategy that doesn't really gel with me.

Mick McManus vs. Tony St. Clair (2/4/76) These guys fought quite a few times on TV and had great chemistry together. I've said it time and time again, but it never ceases to amaze me how you had McManus in his early 50s here doing the same thing he'd done on TV year after year, match after match, and still getting fantastic heat for it. This match was built around two McManus staples, the cauliflower ears getting roughed up and McManus' own towel being used against him by an angry babyface, but I dug every second of it despite having seen it all before. There's no doubt based on my recent viewings that McManus was a much better performer than Pallo, though the footage of Pallo is extremely limited and may not give an accurate picture. This wasn't as good as I remember their '74 match being, but TWC showed the cameras still rolling on an amusing post-match that showed what a complete package McManus was and it was fun watching these two lock up again. On an unrelated note, Kent Walton said St. Clair was heading off to South Africa and that we wouldn't see him on the small screen for possibly a year and I'll be damned but he really was away from TV for a year. No bullshittin' from Kent.

Mick McManus vs. Clive Myers (4/7/81) Wildly disappointing. Myers' Iron Fist gimmick was stupid and completely shackled his wrestling ability. Not that there was much wrestling in this. Mick McManus was one of the great figures of British wrestling but he was washed up by the time the 80s came round, and sadly I can't see any of his matches making the 80s set. The only interesting thing about this was the finish which saw Myers take a huge over the top rope bump to the third row. Never seen that before in WoS. Mick McManus vs. Jeff Kaye (1/10/78) This was a good example of the huge difference between 70s McManus and 80s McManus even as late in the piece as '78. Really niggly, entertaining match from two veterans of the ring. Not listing it as it's McManus schtick and I've seen it all before, but Kaye made for a really good McManus opponent and the forearm smashes in this were beautiful. Mick McManus and Steve Logan vs. Iron Fist and Black Belt Chris Adams (7/26/78) McManus and Logan looked like such a pair of crooks. Whoever stuck those two together was a bright spark. Their opponents were The Martial Arts Fighters... Yep. Lots of shitty karate in this one. Two from the master: Mick McManus vs. Steve Best (7/31/75) Mick McManus vs. Mal Sanders (10/11/78) The Best match is awesome. It's all of McManus' favourite spots rolled into one, but the crowd is heated and Best makes for a great McManus opponent. I really wanted to list this but it was a bit too short. Hell of an entertaining match, though. Mal Sanders is a guy I don't care for along the lines of John Naylor. Not a match I was interested in. Mick McManus vs. Catweazle (2/21/77) Only Mick McManus could carry Catweazle to something this good. For those of you who don't know, Catweazle was a worker who basically took his gimmick from a British children's show about an 11th century wizard who accidentally traveled through time to the 20th century. Really gimmicky stuff, but McManus was excellent at working with these type of wrestlers. I was sorely tempted to list this because of how exciting it was, but it needed at least another round and I suspect that McManus had this match with Catweazle often. Steve Best & Johnny Saint vs. Steve Logan & Mick McManus (4/18/74) I've said my bit on WoS tag matches many times before, but I will say that the heel team of McManus and Logan brought some semblance of structure to their matches. It's nothing special compared to their tag work, but for some reason Joint booked tag matches to be up tempo affairs with little or no FIP, possibly to distinguish them as something unique. Incidently, I'd forgotten all about Saint's 70s hair. Wild.