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Everything posted by ohtani's jacket
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Would make more sense to kayfabe a heart attack than a severed spinal cord.
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Fuerza Chicana, Mr. Rafaga, Sauron vs Asturiano, Centella de Oro, Tigre Rojo, Arena Puebla, 5/25/09 Ah, the Puebla locals. What I like about these guys is that they come in all shapes and sizes. A real mix of odds and ends. Centella de Oro was the only worker here, but there was no shirking from the match-ups and no hiding in the trios. They all took their turn here and were all rolling with an 80s bent. It was standard fare from these guys, but more praise worthy than anything from last week. IWRG 5/28 Angelico, Chico Che, Freelance vs. Capitan Muerte, Durango Kid, Tetsuya Bushi This was an abomination of a match, but Freelance is on a tear right now. Valiente's been earning the plaudits, but Freelance is taking them back. The pleasing thing about this run is that he's cut back on the number of dives. Watch his exchange with Capitan Muerte and you'll see where he's improving. If I had my way, Freelance would blow up into something huge in Mexico. Oficial 911, Oficial AK47, Oficial Fierro vs. Trauma I, Trauma II, Zatura, IWRG Intercontinental Trios Championship This started off with a lengthy mat sequence between Trauma II and Oficial 911, with every exchange ending in a submission attempt. They weren't bad holds, but the set-up was poor. They released holds, gave up position and were far too slow. When it was over, Trauma fronted him, but the Oficial hadn't been anywhere near aggressive enough for that to be the story. I kinda dig Trauma II as a skinny guy who's dangerous from the guard position, but if they go down that route there needs to be better takedown work from 911. In came Trauma II, who was looking to establish himself as the enforcer, but again the execution was poor. The Oficiales took over, and as with much of their wrestling this year, they were short of ideas. They kinda pulled it together in the end and Zatura did a cool dive, but it was a pretty average effort. I'm not sure what's happened to them this year, but they've gone right off the boil. The Traumas are kids and you expect them to struggle , but what's up with the Oficiales?
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The best time to push Owen would've been during the Black Hart return, but we all know what happened there. The only other time would've been during 1994, but we know all about that too. After '98 and '99, I don't see Owen sticking with the company let alone winning one of the two world titles. There was always Scoop level talk about Owen getting a run against Austin, but when you really think about it, they couldn't even book the Ministry of Darkness or Hit and Run Driver to be a compelling opponent for Austin. I do wonder whether he could've stuck around in a Finlay type role or whether he'd have gone to TNA.
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How highly do you regard wrestling?
ohtani's jacket replied to ohtani's jacket's topic in Pro Wrestling
I wouldn't say I was embarrassed at being a pro-wrestling fan, it's just a pain in the ass explaining to people how you know Japanese wrestlers from the 70s and 80s and leads to all sorts of questions like: "is Japanese wrestling famous in your country?" My wife has a co-worker who's a big New Japan fan and he keeps trying to give me merchandise I don't want. Somehow he got her hooked on Tanahashi and she keeps bringing home pro-wrestling magazines despite having no interest in his work. The only guy I ever watched wrestling with, I haven't seen for three years, so that's definitely a factor; but with others hobbies, I'll check the internet to figure out which movie to watch next or what album to buy, but I don't feel the urge to discuss these things. There's something about wrestling that makes it just as satisfying to discuss as it is to watch; perhaps moreso. The only other topic I devote as much time to is rugby. I guess this goes back to when I first got the internet. The first thing I looked for was wrestling news and I suppose the habit grew from there. Jose and I went to a bar once and had to explain how we knew each other. That was kinda surreal. -
Mike Quackenbush/Kendo/Solar v Negro Navarro/Mr. Ferrari/Claudio Castegnoli, Invasion Azteca, 3/08/09 Well, for the second year running, it looks like my match of the year will come from outside Mexico. Perhaps this wouldn't have been a MOTY in years gone by, but these days you have to search every nook and cranny. It's a bit like diggin' in the crates. I won't deny that finding lucha in Delaware is half the fun, but the important thing is that it was lucha through and through. There's a certain aesthetic that says this match is cool: the crowd, the building, the colour of the mat, two all-time greats in a scaled back trios. But I'll tell you what this match had: it had charisma. If I were to describe trios wrestling, I'd say it's one or two good workers, a guy with some shtick and a couple of apron warmers. The workers do the bulk of the wrestling, the comedy guy does his schtick and the apron warmers pick their spots. These days it doesn't take much imagination to work a trios match. The only guys who do it well are the Puebla locals, but here you had Navarro/Solar, Navarro/Quackenbush, a little bit of comedy and a bunch of guys working around the edges. So when I'm talking about charisma, I'm talking about that real shit from back in the day. You had three guys nowhere near the level of the others and the match was better for it. Watching Navarro here, I had no doubts I was watching an all-time great worker. How many wrestlers revent themselves at Navarro's age? How many guys are better in their early 50s than they were in their youth? And how many guys get better year after year from the age of 45? It just doesn't happen. I thought Solar had one of his better outings in recent times, but I'd go so far as to say this is THE Negro Navarro match: the match that encapsulates why he's the man right now. I don't think I've ever seen Solar and Navarro go at each other like this, with amazingly quick go-behinds and strong takedowns. but what really impressed me was Navarro and Quackenbush. Quackenbush doesn't look like much of a wrestler, but in the past six months I've seen him wrestle Johnny Saint, Cassandro and Negro Navarro, and I've gotta give the guy his dues. Navarro was lording it here, trashing talking in Spanish throughout their exchanges; but every time Quackenbush hooked a limb, he did not disappoint. In all honesty, he was one of the better sparring partners Navarro's had. I don't know how he did it, but he did it and fair play to him. So what you had was a bit of clowning around, some killer match-ups and an awesome setting. What more could you ask for? The imperfections are what really made it: the scrappy finishes, the ref's mistakes, the looseness at times. You know they're working when they're ad-libbing comedy between matwork. You can't do that without some personality and a whole lot of confidence in your mat skills. Navarro's takedowns are like Ray Mendoza's. Everytime he slams someone to the mat, you expect him to come back up with his arm raised. He's a killer. I don't think anyone could take him in a fight. But he's seen it all, done it all and has a sense of humour about it. A lot of indie matches strike me as the sincerest form of flattery, but this was the real deal. Hell, Solar even sold the low blow like a pro. He was stretching that thing at the end and there was no aggravating it. What a champ.
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This comment from Death From Above got me thinking in tangets: Wrestling, and more specifically writing about it, have always been hobbies for most people. Despite a few people making careers out of it or securing book deals, wrestling criticism has never been pursued as seriously as film criticism, music criticism or sports journalism. That's understandable given the sheer scale of those entertainment forms, but while I was thinking about this, I couldn't shake the feeling that wrestling isn't as worthy a subject as film, music, sport or literature. So, I started thinking about whether I actually like wrestling as much as film or music or rugby, basketball and tennis. My first thought was that all of those things are immediately and inherently superior to pro-wrestling, but then I started wondering why I've spent twenty or more years watching wrestling and why I spend a part of everyday reading up about it or watching matches. I've had other hobbies over the years that have fallen by the wayside, yet when my wife tells people I like wrestling, I always try and downplay it. I'm assuming that everyone here has other hobbies, in fact I'm familiar with some of them from other boards. So my question is: How highly do you regard wrestling in regard to your other hobbies, and if it doesn't rate highly, do you think you spend a disproportionate amount of time on it?
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Not much, I suppose.
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Someone posted a random link to some "greatest tag matches ever" article on 411 and I was amazed by how generic the choices were. Even in this age of downloads and filesharing, shit still doesn't fall that far from the tree.
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Blue Panther vs. Averno, CMLL World Middleweight Championship, 5/29/09 (clipped) This was a difficult match to judge since it was clipped, but it made me wanna throw in the towel. The opening matwork was there or thereabouts, with Panther making it look more spectacular than it really was. Averno is an average worker, but he at least brought his A game and Panther has enough credibility to work an opening caida along traditional lines. The third fall is where my apathy grew, especially when they reprised that shitty mask match from last year. Where others see Panther cutting this sympathetic figure, I just see a guy who can't salvage the third caida. What's the point of going for three topes if they're not sold? Why can't they space their moves properly? The Chicana/Aguayo topes put this shit to shame. This is what lucha has become: shit basically. I've tried finding new ways to enjoy it, but it's a losing battle. When you have one of the most respected workers of the past 30 years towing the company line, it's a difficult pill to swallow. I'll say this much -- it was better than the Mistico/Casas matches and probably better than Averno/Santo from 2004, but still not enough. The decade's almost over and there's no relief in sight. The 2010s are gonna be bad.
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El Dandy vs. Javier Cruz, hair vs. hair, 10/26/84 This was just a bad match. Way too much offence for a hair match and not enough selling. That should come as no surprise. Dandy was only 22 here and Cruz 25. Collectively, they didn't know shit yet. It kind of reminded me of Kiyoshi Tamura's early fights, where he's all limbs and no control. Sadly, we'll probably never seen their '86 feud and won't be able to pinpoint when Dandy entered his prime or if Cruz was ever a good singles worker. Felino vs. Pantera, CMLL World Welterweight Championship, 12/27/94 I like Felino, I really do, but this was a piss poor performance with the most atrocious matwork I've seen in a lucha title match. In lucha, there's certain things you accept -- the first two falls are academic: the loser of the first fall will win the next and winning is as easy as a few simple moves. After awhile, you take it for granted. Occasionally, you're surprised. But they've got to be good, even if you're half stepping. 90s Felino had the same workrate tendencies as a Chris Benoit or Eddy Guerrero, but here, in a lucha title match, the only matwork was a foul. Pantera's not the most impressive worker, probably serviceable at best, but all he could do was sell and Felino gave him fuck all to work with. The third fall had multiple dives, but who gives a shit after being short changed? This was disturbingly close to modern CMLL. They should've nipped it in the bud in 1994. Apolo Dantes vs. Miguel Pérez Jr., hair vs. hair, 10/13/95 This wasn't a bad match per se, but it was excessive and once again there were too many moves for a hair match. This was rudo contra rudo and Mexico contra Pérez; a revenge match for Pérez taking Silver King's hair (in another workrate hair match.) Pérez was one of the better workers to come through Mexico in the 90s; perhaps the best, unless I'm forgetting someone obvious. He's a guy who could clearly brawl, but he also had a lot of spots, and I mean a lot of spots. In 1995, if there were two guys who could work the semi-universal 'Best of the Super Juniors' style, Apolo Dantes and Silver King were those guys., so it's no surprise that they booked these matches, and the publico absolutely LOVED it. The third fall went on too long for mine, but there were all sorts of crowd shots (shot from a classic documentary angle), and while those inserts are easy to manipulate the assorted reactions were the most interesting thing about the match. Especially the guy with a hook for an arm. Hair matches should always be brawls in my view, but if you're a Dantes fan this was a solid performance.
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What I meant is that it's difficult to have an original take on the match.
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That may be true, but it's difficult to have an original opinion about that Misawa/Kawada match. I don't think basing your opinion on what other people say is a bad thing as such, the problem is when people feel the need to have the same opinion as others, as if they're getting "it" and others aren't.
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I don't see what's wrong with basing your opinion on what others say.
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Can F4W subscribers vote? How about people who only subscribe via the website?
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IWRG 5/21/09 Freelance, Miss Gaviota & Diva Salvaje vs. Xibalba, Carta Brava & Avisman Usually I'd skip a match like this, since you have to sit through so much crap to get to the Freelance parts, but it was worth it this week. From the opening matwork with Avisman to all of his rope work and bumps, it was a really solid outing from the world's foremost technico. There were a few hiccups on the mat, but they worked through it and I liked how pissed Avisman was at himself. The exoticos tried hard, but they're not very good. The crowd seemed to enjoy their schtick, but I've seen better. One of the problems with Freelance is that despite being a great technico, there's really no-one for him to feud with. And since there's no rhyme nor reason to IWRG, he's stuck in these random trios matches. Negro Navarro, Durango Kid & Capitán Muerte vs. Black Terry, Dr. Cerebro, Cerebro Negro This was the match of the week. It started off with some solid matwork between Dr. Cerebro and Durango Kid and then Cerebro Negro and Capitán Muerte, before Terry and Navarro took over. Over the past few weeks, Terry's conceded that he can't beat Navarro on the mat, so Negro put him away in style. Nobody but nobody fucks with Navarro on the mat and Terry's selling was vintage as usual. The second fall was a nice change of pace. The Cerebros looked to push a three on two or three on one advantage for the quick fall, but Navarro's boys had a fall in hand, which led to some good exchanges. The third fall opened with more of the same, which made sense from the Cerebros' perspective, since they're the champs. They're making a push for trios of the year; in part because they're getting all the opportunities, but Navarro just can't be fucked with. He'd take on all three guys at once if he had to, and threw the best punch combos I've seen him do. The finish saw Terry faking a low blow and so it continues. You have to think Navarro is getting the belts. The question is who his partners will be. The matwork was considerably better without his kids involved, but I can't imagine them not being involved. Traumas I y II & Zatura vs. Oficiales AK-47, Fierro y 911 Crap. Gave up watching it. The Oficiales have been pretty average this year. CMLL Blue Panther, La Sombra & Volador Jr. vs El Averno, El Mephisto & Efesto, 5/22/09 I only watched this to see the Averno/Panther matwork, since I hear they're having a singles match soon. I approve of CMLL pushing Panther as an authentic lucha maestro and I also liked the Navarro style tights. Anything to move away from the image of a maskless Blue Panther. The matwork was good and their singles match should at least be as good as Panther's anniversary match last year, provided there's no bullshit. The rest of the match was a heated spotfest and of no interest to me.
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Well, a fair number of those votes have to have been internet smarks who subscribe to the WON, otherwise I don't see how it gets into the top five. It took a long time for that show to be available on DVD, I figure most people downloaded it.
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Purely Sexy. My personal feeling about the Panther/Villano match is that people wanted it to be a great match because it was Panther losing his mask.
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Black Terry vs. Fantasma de la Ópera, IWRG Intercontinental Welterweight Championship, 7/19/07 Black Terry is a guy who's more or less had a second career in IWRG, and you'd have to say 2007 was the peak of that career. He was tearing shit up in this feud. In one trios, they did a huge old school bladejob, where both guys worked the cut until Fantasma looked like something out of a Dario Argento film. Terry's brawling was fantastic. It wasn't the strikes or the DQ for excessive rudoing or even the way he put over Fantasma's headbutts, it was the way he sold the entire thing. The secret to wrestling is to be quick with your holds and not show any daylight, but Terry does more than that. He's one of those rare workers who seem to be "in character" the entire time, so that when the camera is fixed on him, it's almost like a character study. The other trios I watched was more notable for his matwork with Freelance, but he did show that you can beat up a guy like Multifacético and make it interesting, provided you treat him like a complete and utter whipping boy. I think it's fair to say that Terry has slipped in recent months, which is understandable given that he's entering his late 50s, but there were a number of other interesting contrasts between then and now. The crowds were much better then than the are now and the style was different too. This was a small scale title match, and I knew it wouldn't be some kind of epic due to the match length, but I figured that if the matwork was solid it would be pretty good. What I didn't expect is that Terry would work a style somewhat closer to his roots. There's been a tendency in recent IWRG matwork to isolate each hold and make them seem painful instead of showy, which is how lucha holds used to be, but here Terry worked some classic first caida matwork. And it was cool. Aside from the lower weight classes in World of Sport, where else can you see guys wrap each other up like this? Fantasma de la Ópera isn't the most mobile guy, and he's not particularly smooth either, but his ring sense is solid enough. He relies on the ropes a bit too much for my liking and his suplexes are wildly out of place, but he's earnest and Black Terry singles matches are rarer than hen's teeth, so I enjoyed this. The feud kinda devolved into RAW vs. Smackdown booking with a "fatal three-way" that had all sorts of questionable offence, but I like it whenever Terry goes "small", whether it's against Freelance, Turbo or in this case Fantasma.
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I rented it from Champion. Jose tried to buy it off them, but they wouldn't sell it to him.
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Yeah, that's the one.
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I don't know anything about the build-up. I imagine it was the standard trios build-up, but the information's probably out there in Spanish somewhere. When the match first started circulating, people were more familiar with MS-1 than Chicana, because of the Infernales, but Chicana was actually the bigger star. He was a big stip match worker, who wrestled all the top guys in EMLL and UWA due to their working agreement. MS-1 had only lost his mask the year before and wouldn't form the Infernales until '84, so it's fair to say this feud made him. He'd go on to main event or semi main for another ten years or so. We can't be certain that this is the best wager match of the 80s, but from the lucha footage that exists, the only match that comes close is the Santo/Espanto Jr. mask match. The Dandy stip matches are a level down from that, though the Pirata Morgan hair match is excellent. The Estrada/Cruz match is popular in some circles, but I've always hated that match. Even though it was retroactively discussed, MS-1/Chicana set the standard for lucha stip matches. Lynch seemed to have the tape for a long time before people saw it, but I can't imagine anyone not using it as their frame of reference for wager matches.
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Perro Aguayo vs. Sangre Chicana, 3/20/92 Ha, this was awesome! Easily the best Perro Aguayo match I've seen and probably the best thing Konnan's ever been involved in. There was so much bullshit going on in this match and it all worked beautifully. They couldn't have booked or executed it any better. It started off on the perfect note with Chicana beating Aguayo over the head with the charro hat he wore to the ring, and was filled with hokey shit from La Fiera, Konnan and the heel ref Gato Montini. Perro Aguayo has some of the deepest blade lines of any wrestler you'll ever see and it doesn't take much for him to bleed, but once it started flowing Chicana went into overdrive. He cleared some front row seats, stood up on them and dared the crowd to do something about it. They say Jake Roberts is a master of psychology, but I've got this little theory that Sangre Chicana is more Jake Roberts than Jake Roberts. Just fantastic shit. At one point, he was jawing with a technico fan and he was OUT OF HIS GODDAMN MIND. Konnan and Aguayo did this mindblowingly awesome spot where Konnan was willing Aguayo on, telling him to get up and jog it off, which he did. That was borderline Apollo Creed/Rocky Balboa stuff. Konnan ended up being escorted to the back for some reason and then Pena came out and personally removed Montini. He signaled a timeout and brought out this wiry old ref who was either badass or a cunt. Some fan tried to embrace him on his way to the ring and he gave him the big fuck off. The final flurry saw some awesome topes, with Chicana crumpled under the chairs and an awesome shot of La Fiera's smooth ass wrestling boots under his awesome civvies. The finish was glorious, as the old man came charging off the ropes and caught Chicana in a signature cradle. Aguayo ran around in a half circle and jumped up and down. Then he went and pat the head of the world's oldest living lucha libre fan, who was a little concerned when her program fell out of her lap. God bless you, honey. Just a marvelous piece of bullshit. Chicana is the king of doing nothing and getting heat for it. I'd put this in my top 10 for 1992, it was that entertaining.