Grimmas

281 - Kazushi Sakuraba 2006 Ranking: honourable mention Points: 238 # of Ballots: 5 Average Vote: 53.40 High Vote: 41 (Venegas) Low Vote: 86

There has been some people asking to submit their lists now that the reveal is delayed till after the GWE reveal. After some discussions with Dylan, Charles and myself we have decided that is unfair to the other 50 who put together their tag lists within the 18 month time frame. In retrospect tag teams and singles should had been done at different times, but we are too late for that. Maybe in 5 years?

Awesome, I would had been sad otherwise. Those facial expressions get you into a top 100 by themselves. So that's two: Killer Khan & John Tenta.

I'm pretty sure I voted for Killer Khan, can't remember. So that's two.

Your loss. BattlArts is awesome. Still strange that Satino Marella and Yuki Ishikawa have opened up a new Battle Arts in Toronto that nobody talks about.

282 - Killer Khan 2006 Ranking: honourable mention Points: 237 # of Ballots: 9 Average Vote: 74.67 High Vote: 10 (Dean Rasmussen) Low Vote: 98 "A great big match wrestler who had an incredibly physical style." Dave Musgrave Recommended Match: Killer Khan vs Riki Choshu (NJPW, 7/31/1986)

283 - Super Astro 2006 Ranking: honourable mention Points: 237 # of Ballots: 10 Average Vote: 77.30 High Vote: 52 (A Stock) Low Vote: 96

284 - Dos Caras 2006 Ranking: honourable mention (124) Points: 236 # of Ballots: 6 Average Vote: 61.67 High Vote: 31 Low Vote: 93

285 - Katsuyori Shibata 2006 Ranking: honourable mention Points: 236 # of Ballots: 7 Average Vote: 67.29 High Vote: 23 (ShittyLittleBoots) Low Vote: 88

http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/33839-kobashi-vs-bret/

Let's keep the thread going from here because this kind of "projection" seems like something that should be discussed more especially if more people were doing it. That's the skill vs output discussion. We've had it two million times. Some had the skills and the opportunities. Some had the skills and no opportunities. Some had the opportunities. I value the skills more than the output. LOVE the butt offense!

Another from the 2006 list is gone, that's three. The first male though. I wonder why Koshinaka has dropped so much?

286 - Shiro Koshinaka 2006 Ranking: 77 Points: 236 # of Ballots: 8 Average Vote: 71.50 High Vote: 48 (The Great Puma) Low Vote: 86

Part 1: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/33786-reactions-to-the-list/

Actually probably time to end this thread and start a new, so it's not insane to go back and read in the future.

That's probably the best assessment. Number of great matches being weighted so heavily bugged me a lot, especially if it was more important than how someone performs. Some people were just in positions to have a TON of great matches and to have those seen by a lot of people. Others did not. The folks who didn't get those chances aren't necessarily worse than those who did. Being in position means they still have to take advantage of that opportunity. And doing so may very well be why they're so often put in such a position. True. However looking at someone like Bret who constantly had to face pirates, dentists, clowns and everybody else and compare that to Kobashi who got to face Misawa, Kawada, Taue, etc.. There is no way Bret would ever be able to equal that many great matches in that situation. Does that mean Kobashi is automatically better? He may be better, but there is more to it than that. Bret had a ton of disadvantages with respect to his opposition. The house style is also not to be discounted. If you dropped Fujinami or Hashimoto Baba's world rather than Inoki's its possible we may view their careers very differently. I also have no idea how one would begin to argue Bret over Kobashi unless you're adamant that the end product really doesn't matter and are only evaluating the ingredients someone brings to the table. If the performances are consistently that excellent then at some point the output should reflect it. May, if, coulda, woulda, shoulda We don't use GWE to re-write history. Skill vs Output. Some value one more than the other.

If Tiger Mask's mask came off in 1990 and it was Bret Hart under it and he was treated the same as Misawa going forward, Bret would be the GWE! IF? We rank on what happened, not what might have happened. Kobashi is a great example of what I mean about supposed negatives over-indexing. He absolutely curb-stomps Bret in just about every way conceivable, and yet you low-balled him cos you want to make some point about head drops. Disagreed. I like Bret's ability to tell stories in the ring better. Bret's seller is different, but I enjoy his take more than Kobashi's. Like Bret's offense better. Love Bret's finishing sequences better. Kobashi had better fire and better excitement and more great matches, outside of that I will take Bret in every category.

Love the bolded part.

For someone I had never even heard of her rankings were really high from those who ranked her. I probably need to watch some of her career.

If Tiger Mask's mask came off in 1990 and it was Bret Hart under it and he was treated the same as Misawa going forward, Bret would be the GWE!

287 - Azumi Hyuga 2006 Ranking: honourable mention Points: 231 # of Ballots: 4 Average Vote: 43.25 High Vote: 10 (The Great Puma) Low Vote: 75

He was my 101, one place above the Rock at 102. There was a moment on the WTBBP special where I think Chad thought he was going to come in at 100 but I rescued Ron Garvin and then aftrer the show remebered that Buddy Rose should have been there. You mean Buddy Rhodes?

Yep, she was 79 last time. Joshi fandom was at an all-time high in 2006... it isn't now.

The second person from the 2006 top 100 has dropped off.

288 - Dump Matsumoto 2006 Ranking: 79 Points: 230 # of Ballots: 12 Average Vote: 81.83 High Vote: 46 (Badlittlekitten) Low Vote: 100