El-P

One of the best wrestler anywhere in the world from 88 to the time he went into semi-retirement. Amazing as a junior, as a tag guy, as a heavyweight taking on NJ's opposition, amazing pretty much in any kind of role (not to mention assistant booker to Choshu during NJ's hottest period ever). And he's the Minister of culture and communication of Japan now. Certainly beat everybody on the political field.

After diving a bit more into the 80's and 70's than I did before, I can say this without second guessing myself : without question, the best pro-wrestler ever.

I'll admit it, sometimes, I find his overdramatic selling totally ridiculous (and I'm an Onita fan). I mean, like HTM once said, he does act like he's been shot by a gun after taking a single chop, and at times, it's just looks stupid. And I don't buy the "playing to the cheap seats" argument, for the simple reason he's the only great babyface from the era that went to those extremes in term of overracting. Ricky Morton, arguably the best babyface ever in the US, didn't overact like that. Rick Martel didn't overact like that. It was just Steamboat's thing. The other criticism I have is that some of his "martial art" offense looks like goofy cartoon shit. Once you accept it, it's like Tenryu's enzuigiri or the People's elbow, you don't pay attention and pop for the comebacks, but if we have to be fair… doesn't look very convincing. That's the two criticism I'll have for Steamboat, who's obviously is an all-time great, that goes without saying.

The epitome of "solid" as opposed to "great". I can't recall one single performance by DiBiase where I thought "this guy is amazing". I can recall hundreds of performances by DiBiase where I thought "this guy is always so solid". I can recall tons of times where I was supposed to get a great match (either in WWF, Mid-south or Japan) and I got a "good solid match". To me there's a reason why he looked at its best in WWF (yeah, I never thought he was anything special in Mid-south, although again he was super solid), because the gimmick, which he was great at working, was one of the best and most memorable of its era (and of all-time as far as this kind of stuff goes), and because the promotion was so light on super string workers that DiBiase obviously came off much better in this environment. Put him in Japan next to Stan Hansen and against guys like Jumbo, Tenryu, Yastu or Choshu, and he looks "solid" but kinda bland in a Dick Slater way. If he had gone to the NWA next to the Ricky Morton, Arn Anderson, Bobby Eaton and Ric Flairs or the territory, I think he'd have been exposed the same way. He's really the counterpart of Brad Armstrong, the difference being Ted was much better at projecting a character, which he did like a king in WWF when he got one of the best gimmick ever, and was an excellent promo. In a way, he's kinda the greatest solid worker ever, or the worst great worker ever. Always been a fan, but he wouldn't do that well on a top 100 with me.

Yeah, Hara was just not very good. Limited worker, who worked stiff and that's about it. I'm not sure which period I like the most, the earlier version in All Japan were he was just an inferior version of Ishikawa, or the later version in SWS/WAR era where he came back as an old fuck who would just stiff the fuck out of everybody because that's all he knew. The match where Tenryu beats the living shit out of him until one bodypart becomes as purple as his trunks (and quite disgusting looking) is probably is glory hour. That and the infamous tag match against Onita and Tarzan Goto which had nuclear heat. So yeah, I probably like the older version the most. Going from Tenryu & Jumbo against Ishin Gundan to Jumbo & whoever vs Tenryu & Hara was a big step down in quality and intensity because of inferior tag partners (not that high on Misawa Mask BTW).

He had a bunch of really good matches with some great workers, but man, he was also quite a bad worker on average. Shit selling, awkward execution, no sense of pacing (those overlong matches going nowhere).

Sadly, some people around here had predicted just that after Mania, even before the end of the Cena feud. Yeah, pretty pathetic.

Sorry to say that, but as I'm going through a bunch of NJ stuff, pro-style Fujiwara is taking a severe plunge with me. As great as he was in UWF and UWF 2.0 (mostly), I'm not feeling his pro-style work at all. Overreliance on goofy as fuck headbutts. And not doing it once or twice during a match. No. Five, six, ten times, sometimes in a row. None of which looks any good. Lots of choking, which is thrilling and compelling stuff. Dubious selling (at times terrific, at times downright shitty with mind-blowing no-selling big shots like Inoki's enzuigiri's or being thrown head first on metal wrenches that hold the ropes). His Boston crab counter is cool as hell the first time you see it, but by the seventh time, you realize it's just another "you can't powerbomb Kidman" spot, although and to be perfectly fair, the Boston crab was a much more common spot for everybody in NJ, but still, it's basically a cool spot that means nothing except look cool and pop the crowd (aka, a Ric Flair trademark spot). He can go from some terrific looking counters and some cool as hell striking moments with his dickish old fuck character to some Keiji-Mutoh-on-crack goofiness moments in the same match, which renders him really frustrating to watch, as you get the feelling he could be absolutely great, but rather relies on shortcuts which the crowds admitedly loves (those stupid looking headbutts, no-selling spots). It can still be fun thanks to his great personnality, but to me he goes straight into Mutoh territory when he's doing pro-style (I'm a Mutoh fan, I'm even a Muta fan, but I know where to put him). So yeah, as much as I love his UWF work, his pro-style body of work just doesn't cut it for him to be considered an elite worker overall. Despite all his shortcomings, I think I'd have Choshu ahead of him actually. I dunno, since Fuji in UWF was just terrific most of the time and I'm a shoot style fan, so...

Bill Dundee is like the Gran Hamada of Memphis.

"Hey Pillman, how about you carry that albatros like Rick Martel used to do ?" "Okay" So yeah, they had some really good stuff to their resume, because Pillman was that good, and Zenk only had to not fuck things up.

I'd rather watch them than the Hardys in 00. Not too bad for dying ECW, they definitely had potential.

The JTTS tag team that should have been pushed in the Nitro era. Good stuff against the Faces of Fear, but sadly the tag division was taken hostage by the wahsed up Steiners, the awful Harlem Heat and the Outsiders (notice I didn't say anything bad about them). Very good utility guys, obviously.

Doring was boring and mediocre, but honestly Roadkill wasn't anything but a big guy with a goofy gimmick bumping hard, he was overrated as hell in late ECW. I'd rather watch EZ Money & Julio Dinero.

If you are uneasy about talking about some issues, that's your own little problem. I have none and I don't pass judgement on anyone about this particular match I might add. Sean and other people explained why they didn't see it as sad and enjoyed it, and everything was going pretty well and respectfully until you showed up bitching. So stop trolling me. It's not like I care one bit.

I had heard about it and the injury, and I was curious to see what was so "good" about the match. And I don't feel like I have to justify myself of why I watch a pro-wrestling match and talk about it on Pro-Wrestling Only if I want to. So there. As far as "spoiling the surprise", really ? Meltz already talked about it, it's on Youtube where you can get spoiled by reading the comments and the video was posted two days ago already. (plus the surprise is Terry Funk getting injured because Lawler threw a fireball straight into his eyes, so yeah, so much goodness there. Jeez, it's not like I spoiled the end of the Streak….) (oh, and "shiting on the match", really ? "I would agree about the match being as good as it can be when the average age in the ring is 68." "I love Terry, and I like Lawler, and yes, this was as good as you can expect it to be." well…)

I believe Meltz reported that Funk was hurt by the fireball, yes. I would agree about the match being as good as it can be when the average age in the ring is 68. But that's the problem to me. I don't want to see a pro-wrestling match involving two guys that old. I don't care how "good" their psychology is. At some point, I have to draw the line between what's fun to watch and what's not fun to watch. And two guys passed 65 having a pro-wrestling match just isn't any fun to watch, period. If you showed me that when I was 15, or even 25, not-yet-prowrestling-fan me and told me that those two are masters and this is very good as far as pro-wrestling goes, I would have thought it was stupid, crass and not interesting in the least. I love Terry, and I like Lawler, and yes, this was as good as you can expect it to be. But to me, and even if Funk hadn't been hurt, this is clearly on the "pretty sad" side of things, aesthetically speaking. (of course when it's guys who do need the money, then it's really fucking sad, but I was not refering to that, and I sure hope Terry doesn't *need* to do this)

You mean the part where 71 years old Funk actually gets burned by a legit fireball ? Sorry if I sound like an asshole, but I find this rather sad actually (not just the ending, the entire thing). And if we're calling this a "good pro-wrestling match" by today's standarts, then yes, I admit it, pro-wrestling has passed me by.

This card looks dreadful to me. Rusev in a six-man opener is sad. Ryback makes sure I don't give a shit about Owens. Dudz make sure I don't give a shit about the New Days. Kane makes sure I don't give a shit about Rollins. Roman vs Bray I sure don't give a shit either way. Charlotte vs Nikki, well, can't say I'm too interested, but still way more than the other stuff. Taker vs Lesnar gets morbid curiosity out of me. I only hope for a cool debut to face Cena and get the US belt. But I'm not really getting my hopes up either. WWE in 2015. Yep.

Edit : as far as pure shoot-style matches go : Tamura, clearly ahead. Then, since Han doesn't have the longevity and Fuji was mostly great in both UWFs, it would be a toss up. Some goofy pro-style traits of Fujiwara (those headbutts...) could hurt him, but then again, longevity. So, I dunno.

Volk Han was the Dan Kroffat of shoot-style in term of finishing stretches.

It's been a while, but I'm not sure I would say 96 was still her peak. 95 without a doubt, but wasn't she slipping a bit by 96 already compared to her 93/95 work ?

I already know who my #100 is. I believe last time it was Shinzaki, but I'm not sure.

Potentially, a top 50 guy easily. Practically, nope. Don't do drugs kids.

I always got a kick out of Terri Runnels saying that Ray Traylor was basically her best girlfriend on the road in the 00's. The Corny story of Bubba not selling a car door slammed on his hands because some maks were around, then screaming with his high pitch voice backstage is classic too. Actually, I haven't thought about Traylor in a while, and I really can't stand his last WWF stint, but from the 80's to about 94/95, he really was a very good worker that I always loved. Could snip in...

We should rename that thread "20 jazz funk greats"...