El-P

Does Brian Adams work here ? I mean, he was pretty much always a terrible worker. I think the only time I moderately enjoyed his work was during the ridiculous colorful Kona Crush period.

That's Chris Adams for you. Not Brian. Brian was overused and I want him away from my TV set immediately.

Thanks for the nice compliment.

I agree. Golden is not *bad*. He's just to me what I.R.S. is to you.

In all honesty, and although everything I said about Spike is exactly what I think, my first reply was more of an in-joke, but I guess it didn't come through that way because I didn't use a freaking smiley. Dry humour doesn't work apparently. Once you got back with "especially ridiculous", yeah, I kinda took it personnal which is why I mentionned Golden (who is more dull than bad, although he was actively bad at times too in WCW) and McMahon (who sucks but I don't even consider him a worker anyway). And despite not being around for too long, I don't think Spike has never been any good, so there it is. (Glad you finally used Spike and shitty in the same sentence though...)

No, because Raven is really good. Has Spike Dudley been mentioned in this thread ? Unlike you I wasn't trolling. Raven sucks shit and has forever. The idea that he is "really good" now is especially ridiculous. The idea of Spike Dudley being a good worker sounds equally as ridiculous to me. The idea of Jimmy Golden being anything but a horribly boring and dull worker is equally as ridiculous. The idea that Vince McMahon is worth anything as a worker is equally ridiculous to me. So no, I'm not trolling any less than you are. During my ECW watch I would end up FF Spike's matches after some time because he was so unbearable to me. Everything about him sucked to me, and he was only bearable when he was thrown into the crowd by Bam Bam. I'd be happy to never watch another match involving Spike Dudley in my life. So yeah, he's a good candidate for this thread from where I stand. So yeah, I think Raven is a good worker, absolutely great at taking and selling a beating, and overall really fun to watch. (EDIT : and if that makes me having horrible taste in wrestling, no problem, I love my horrible taste at this point)

No, because Raven is really good. Has Spike Dudley been mentioned in this thread ?

You'll probably get crucified for it, but yeah. Never thought he was worth a damn as a worker. Hated pretty much every thing I've seen him involved in as a"wrestler".

And it's not over. WEEK 13 (March 29, April 03 1999) Bizarre turn of the week : Diamond Dallas Page basically showing heavy signs of turning heel (Nitro). First we get a very strange, overdirected, overenergetic, overacted interview with Mike Tenay in which Tenay looks like he's on coke (or simply too much caffeine), and DDP brushes him off when he calls him the "people's champion". First sign of heelness. Then, the Canada crowd (this is Nitro's first Canadian broadcast, from Toronto) gives him a heel reaction, despite having him argue with Flair, who's clearly a heel now. He gets paired up with Hogan, who got a huge babyface reaction, for an okay Nitro main event. Hey, it doesn't make a whole lotta sense except if you go to the route of "DDP is sick of playing nice which ended up with Kim getting injured, so he's gonna take care of business now.", but his face run was getting tired at this point. We'll see how it will play out the following week back in the good ol'US of A. Angle of the week : You know the one. Bret Hart challenges Goldberg, who KO's himself on a hidden metal plate while spearing Bret. Bret gets a huge reaction, he's clearly a big star in Canada at this point, easily the biggest star of the night. The angle is really well done although I think Bret sold the spear too long. But anyway, this is as close as classic stuff as anything that WCW would produce that year. I totally forgot about the "Hey Bischoff ! I quit." line after the angle though. Bret getting all frustrated was the way to go since it was real. Of course a tragedy would scrap the whole thing. Match of the week : Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko vs Rey Mysterio Jr. & Kidman (Nitro). Malenko is much better against fellow cruiserweight. Rey vs Benoit is as great as it sounds. One of the best TV match of the year thus far, maybe the very best. Raven shows up and screws the champs around, Rey ends up being a double champion. This is a title change I had totally forgot. Nice build for the PPV, as we'll get Raven & Saturn vs Horsemen, and tag partners Rey and Kidman going at it for the cruiserweight title. At least some intrigue in the undercard and around the title belts. Promo of the week : Chris Jericho (Nitro). I thought Jericho was done at this point. After all he's not on job duty. Well, he cuts a classic, easy but fun promo totally sucking up to the canadian audience, which sounds right since heel Bret was a babyface here too. Except Jericho ends up turing them upside down at the end and gets a huge chorus of boos. Well done, as the crowd loved the hell out of him when he showed up. His match with Chris Adams was yet another proof that Adams was one of the most underused and underrated worker in the country at this time. Really stupid to not use him at a TV title level like they did with Regal or Finlay at one point. "Spot that doesn't exist" of the week : The Big Wiggle. Norman had been off TV for some time, and then when he showed up he didn't use the Wiggle anymore. It became very clear on Thunder, as when Norman picked up a sign in the alley (which probably refered to the wiggle), the director cut to a crowd shot, then the announcers talked about the big wiggle having been the center of controversy. And later in the match, as Norman was obviously teasing the wiggle, we get another crowd shot while the annoucers wonder if Norman actually did the move as he got a big reaction. Now, I understand the Big Wiggle was really a rather crass move, but it was over as all hell, and the WWF was doing way worse on the other channel. It really harmed Norman's push I think. He's the one who ended up taking it doggystyle. Undercard feud match of the week : Barbarian & Hugh Morrus vs Meng & Jerry Flynn (Saturday Night). Nothing special, but Barbie is always fun, as is Flynn. I'm not a big fan of Da Monster Meng, he's doing way too much no-selling for my taste. And Hugh Morrus, well, Hugh Morrus, as competent as he is, really doesn't strike me as "underrated" or "underused". I'll get back to this when/if I get to the Captain Rection days... Stiff little match. Fun. Line of the week : "That wasn't me, that was Tommy, goof !" Saturn to Raven telling the story of them fighting at summer camp over "that girl Beulah McGillicuty". Raven clearly didn't give a shit anymore and was just having fun. And I love harmless interpromotional overlaping. The US tournament is still going on. It seems. Although there are no bracket at all and we have no idea who's in it and what's going on. The nWo B-Team feud still gets vignettes and matches on damn near every show, unbearable. And we still get vignettes about David Flair and such despite the fact his whole deal seems to have completely crashed with the apparent demise of the nWo as a coherent unit and the upside-downing of the heel-face structure in the company. Seriously, Hogan is apparently a babyface (and after all he's done to WCW Gene is back to licking his balls, which drives me nuts), Kevin Nash some sort of tweener, Scott Steiner is full fledge heel, as is Luger but he seems to be gone while nursing his injury (no more Liz on TV, snif). Oh, I almost forgot, there was a Sting sighting on Nitro. In the rafters. Wearing white and black (remember he was a part of the Wölfpack last time he was around). This is a complete mess. When you add DDP who's apparently turning heel too... Ok. Enough. Head aches.

Well, WCW kickstarted the wrestling boom with the nWo era, then WWF catch up with Austin & Bret and exploded into the dreaded Attitude Era. I don't remember when they began to use the term. I do remember the atrociously obnoxious "Get it ?" campaign in early 1999, when the product had already been Russoed to death. I wonder if you can still call 2000/01 the Attitude era, as Russo was gone by then and I would guess the TV product got much better (the PPV product whicj I'm more familiar with surely was). Nash's booking of WCW in 99 shows a lot of Russo influence too : nonsensical turns nearly every week, a completely structureless company in term of clear heels and face as a result and backtage vignettes with the godawful "invisible camera" (and worst : vignettes that supposedly played like a TV series, as the characters aren't aware of what happens in those vingettes when they don't take part in it, resulting in total confusion. The entire David Flair fiasco is basically done entirely with these kind of vignettes, as is the awful nWo B-team leader feud).

Aja. One of my all-time favourites. I really need to go back to joshi one of these days, or years. I'll say Aja Kong vs Megumi Kudo from 12/09/1993, because I loved Kudo too.

Chris Benoit was a very Althusserian worker...

I'll thow my two cents, and since I havent watched 90's puro in ages, I'll go for the first one who comes to mind, Hash vs Choshu from the G1 Climax 96. Awesome final. Simple and basic as hell, but man dit that work for me.

The same. And I still can't figure which dog is Pat Patterson, which is Gerald Brisco and which is Tony Garea.

Certainly not his best per say, but still one of my all-time favourite : Benoit vs Kevin Sullivan, 96, bathroom brawl. Since Sullivan grew on me in ways I never expected, that would be it. I was growing a bit tired of über worker Benoit with a hundred back suplex and a thousand stiff chops by 2002, so the Sullivan one is more of my alley. More emotion that just crisp work.

WEEK 12 (March 22 to 27, 1999) Random match of the week : Scotty Riggs vs Jerry Flynn (Thunder). And that's pretty much my favourite match of the week too. Riggs has no gimmick per say, he's just a self-absorbed guy now. It's really a shame he was never given a role, as he's much better than Bagwell at this point. Really solid match, with good leg work from Riggs and decent selling of it from Flynn. These are two of my favourite non-pushed guys on the roster. Re-debut match of the week : Vampiro vs Juventud Guerrera (Nitro). Vampiro debuted in August of 1998, then vanished. He re-debuted on the previous Thunder, and here he is with Juvy. I think those two had some heat, as Juvy was pissed about Vamp using the same finisher. Vampiro looks decent here, and I may give him the benefit of the doubt despite the fact he looked godawful in MLW a few years later. He still fucks up at times and I don't buy his act whatsoever. Stiff fest though, you can feel the hostility. Vamp also uses no less than three powerbomb variation. What is this ? FMW ? Style clash of the week : Ric Flair vs Rey Mysterio Jr. (Nitro). The angle is that Flair had a lottery with midcarders and cruiserweights to select an easy opponent for himself, but the guy who was selected got injured (El Dandy), so Rey takes his number. The first stricking thing is how small Rey looks next to Flair. It's really amazing in a way, although Flair is by no way a small guy. But still. Flair looks okay beating the shit out of Rey with stiff chops, but whenever he has to take his offense, he just bumps funny and slow. As a matter of fact, Kevin Nash bumped way better and quicker than Flair for Rey. Just doesn't work very well together, but it's interesting to see nonetheless. Since it's the Spring Break edition of Nitro, guess who's ending up in the pool ? At least that's a satisfying ending. Bizarre turn of the week : Saturn coming up to help Raven who's unmercifully beat up by Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko. (Nitro). Raven is so great at taking a beating, his body language and facials are awesome. So, the Horsemen kinda turn themselves heel (they have to, as Flair is a heel now) by beating down poor Raven 2 on 1. Since Raven is getting positive reactions, the fact that face Saturn comes to his aid solidifies the turn, although the whole thing is a bit puzzling to the audience. I'm all for Saturn getting back with Raven, he's never been better than when paired up with Scott one way or another. Unfunny comedy spot of the week : Disco Inferno as La Cucaracha. In a 8 man lucha match ending up by a series of incredible dives and misses, and Disco applying his finisher to at least 3 of his opponents. The match was really cool, but the whole angle makes the luchadors look like fools. Promo of the week : Bret Hart. (Nitro). Very good blasé, snarky promo by Bret, almost a shoot but in a good way. Begins with "I came here to earn a reputation, not lose it". Complains about not getting a title shot since he came in *the* WCW, bashes Flair, Hogan, Nash ("You can be the pencil, but I can be the eraser", more subtil than "Bookerman" but pretty damn close), and says he can beat Goldberg in five minutes. Next week, first Nitro in Canada... Line of the week : "Sable eat your heart out !" Kevin Nash while Torrie Wilson shows her bikini at Club La Vela. Yeah, that was nice and all, except Sable probably was a biger draw than anyone on your roster at this point (which was depressing BTW). They're having a US title tournament since Scott Hall ended up drunk somewhere. Of course, as usual, no brackets. Jericho is on TV but clearly on his way out. Jobs, no mic time. The whole heel Flair would be better if there wouldn't be this whole heel referee stuff, which I never enjoy much. Robinson is a good performer though.

I'll third this match. Terrific opening match. And now, for something completely different, Astushi Onita. I won't be very original and go toward the 5/5/93 Terry Funk Kawasaki Stadium match.

God I hate this kind of shit Holy shit, I was watching the first minute or so and wondered why the hell would anyone hate it, as it's a pretty great promo from Dutch. Then... I understood why. Total Russoism. It's really too bad for Dutch that they wouldn't find something better to do with him rather than stupid shit like this, indeed. Watching Dutch read a pre-scripted promo and playing the corporate robot is depressing.

It was recorded earlier, at the time of the interview he was talking about maybe returning to Japan. (he was also playing with a lighter and a cigarette during the whole interview. Always find it od to see wrestlers smoke. BTW, he was also pretty open about his use of roids).

Sometime you get more out of a shoot interview that you would expect. René Dupré's shoot was pretty interesting as the guy comes off as pretty damn straight and honest about everything, including his own drug use, and the toxic working environement of the WWE. Unsurprisingly, he called Bradshaw a big bully and an asshole, he said he was basically callled a "french faggot" everey day he came to work by this big fuck. He rightfully says that had he been a homosexual, this would have been sexual discrimination. Gives his own version of the story of the Bob Holly beating, which is interesting too. Said Holly was a big office stooge, which doesn't surprise me either. He's got a pretty interesting take on the Benoit thing to, which make sense on paper. Pretty funny to see him talk like an old veteran about paying his dues, as he worked in his father's promotion since he was a teen for shit money for years before making it into the WWF. Does lots of funny impersonations (McMahon, Ace, Corny). Loner kind of guy, so he cames off arrogant in the locker room despite basically just not being a party guy nor a big socialite. Shy but laid-back as fuck. Loves Japan, married a japanese woman. Interesting how he also talks about Grenier kinda looking down at him as he's from Montreal while Dupré is from the Maritimes so he speaks more like the Acadians do.

Now that you all mention it, I seem to remember. Must have been in 1996 since he was in the WWF in early 1997. Missed opportunity either way.

I do. I wouldn't call it a "push" though. He's another one I would have loved to see in WCW instead of being wasted in WWF. Miguel Perez vs Eddie, vs Rey, vs Juvy...

Agreed. He could have bumped his ass off for the babyface, occasionnaly work a match like a total chickenshit. I always thought Tiger had some potential, more as a character than as a worker. WWF missed the boat on some good managers with him and Don Callis. Incidentally, both were hated and heckled in the locker room.

Tiger Ali Singh says hello. Of course you can say the "outside circumstance" was that he was a shitty worker, but I found he was actually pretty good in the Million Dollar Man redux gimmick they gave him at one point. Mark Henry too got a gigantic contract and was barely pushed at first. It took years and years and years and years before he amounted to anything. When you think of it they gave out some really stupid contracts during this time, trying to find an anwser to Nitro.

Finally saw that one. Zsbysko is an old-school guy so he's a master bullshiter, and he puts himself over a lot. That being said, he puts Bruno over a lot more, puts over Backlund as a worker at least (saying he could have great match with him because he was a real wrestler unlike most of the guy in the company) and tells some great stories (true or false). Don't look for clear cut facts, but as far as more general observations about wrestling back then, it's pretty interesting. Overall he comes off as a really smart guy and actually as really likable and thankfull for the opportunity he got. So yeah, tons of bullshit but I'd say it has to be expected from a wrestler anyway, and Larry isn't one of those bitter old guys, he seems happy and jovial. (you can play the game of taking a shot each time Larry says "Bruno", you'll won't go through the whole thing, you'll be wasted after half an hour)