Matt D

I was amazed that anyone went above me on Cota since he's in there almost as a protest vote on my list (though one that I can justify). It's great that it was DEAN because that means I get double credit for Cota's placement.

I've just started to watch Ogawa because of Stacey and he's a lot of fun. I'm looking forward to seeing more.

The one HHH match that feels shorter than it actually is.

I think that the cap potentially should be there, because there are hypothetically diminishing returns on great matches unless the matches are worked from different angles or make you feel something different. (I don't entirely think that's the case for as emotional a wrestler as Kobashi mind you). I'm just stuck on the idea that great matches are a starting point, not a destination. What they do is give a better opening for what made a wrestler great. They give you richer data. I think most often, you'd be able to use that data and come up with a picture that did show more greatness than someone with far less matches, but it's not a sure thing. You might find a lot of the same qualities relative to tremendously different qualities, the sum of which end up being more valuable over a career of different performances..

There is greatness in this, even in the name of the GWE project:

Dean, Si, and myself had to be the high Cota voters and for someone who Meltzer would bitch about in 93 Observers because he had a tiny view of what lucha could be, we got him far. Not far enough to see poor OJ's head REALLY explode though.

I wouldn't suggest anyone give too much for that match in specific.

I did. Both MS-1 and Charles.It's a hell of a one-two punch.

Uh oh.

I just figured he might have a bit of bump in some people's eyes like he did in mine watching the lucha stuff that daintacash has uploaded. You would be wrong on the second part of your statement. In general, it's something of an accomplishment for a wrestler not to fall on the list given the new footage all across the board and new talent that has either come or matured in the time. We do have to keep that in mind.

Poor Emilio Charles Jr. This one hurts.

He also bumped and sold a lot more when he was a face. I've seen the match with Luger in the cage. Are there other examples like that or is your point just that he sucks and ruins every match he's in? This is my favorite hilarious Brody match. You have to feel so bad for Dos Caras here.

There's no one who did more to hurt matches than Brody. How does that rate?

I've never seen the Strongbow match. I'll try to track it down.

And you see this in what we have of him on tape, a bit of WWF heel stuff in, what, 82-83, the just snippets of 70s AWA, with maybe 1-2 full tags with Bockwinkel and the one with Patterson from 78 where I don't think i recognize what you're talking about, something like that, him teaming with Bock again in the 80s AWA for a bit, and then most of the rest is babyface stuff. Is there a match in particular that stands out? If you're going off of things you saw live, obviously, there's not a lot we can do there but to take your word for it and curse the fact that we're not lucky enough to be able to see it ourselves, but I really haven't seen any sign of what you're saying on tape, not even the ghost of it.

I can't even begin to imagine a world where Brody is better than Super Porky.

As always, the background is appreciated OJ, and I completely get the frustration that Myers had been providing something that really appealed to you and he went away from that, when he didn't even need to. In some ways though, the fact that he adapted with the times, even and especially when he didn't have to, and in a way that the crowd DID respond to, and in a way that at least, I feel, he used to continue to create compelling and different feeling matches, ones that still speak to me even if they came off as disappointing to you, well, that's all the more impressive.

I'd love to see you write up some of those ten matches in the Microscope. I'd be really curious to see you pinpoint those elements. I'm not trying to put you on the spot. I'd just like to understand. Stevens is a hell of a myth and I'd like to be able to believe some of it. We might have loved him for an ability to be really, really irritating and draw heat while being showy, but there's not really any evidence of that in his work. You can't even see the hints (and sometimes, far more hints) that you do in a guy that's obviously past his prime like Mick McManus. Actually, here's a good question. Is there any wrestler that anyone put in their top 50 but that we have footage of as an older man that doesn't at least show more signs of greatness than what we can see from Stevens (including Flair, who despite my critiques, still DOES). The first names that comes to mind that meets your criteria is Nick Bockwinkel. At 50 plus he was having outstanding matches with Hennig. Sorry, I worded that poorly. I meant if there was anyone in someone's 50s who DIDN'T show far, far more signs of greatness than we see from what Stevens we have, even when those people were old.

We might have loved him for an ability to be really, really irritating and draw heat while being showy, but there's not really any evidence of that in his work. You can't even see the hints (and sometimes, far more hints) that you do in a guy that's obviously past his prime like Mick McManus. Actually, here's a good question. Is there any wrestler that anyone put in their top 50 but that we have footage of as an older man that doesn't at least show more signs of greatness than what we can see from Stevens (including Flair, who despite my critiques, still DOES).

There's no evidence in his non prime footage really. If he was just an athletic spot monkey(60s version) someone might Flair might still love him in the way others love Angle.

Very curious about Stevens at 100 even.

If I went just a little higher on Condrey or if Stacey went just a little lower on Orton they would have been flipped.

I feel like I didn't do a great job of separating Rogers out and looking at his merits individually.

I was wondering about Childs having "Mr. Donnie" as his #86

Another Classics pick for people.