Matt D

I obviously liked the mind games match more than you did, but I don't think we were that far off on the other two. I am a bit of an Undertaker apologist admittedly and I kind of enjoy watching the different ways guys believably keep on offense against him. I'm mainly grabbing stuff at random here. Goldust (debut) vs Marty Jannetty - In Your House - 10/22/95 Dustin had been on house shows for about a month and a half before this, mainly going up against Bob Holly so this isn't his first time in the gimmick or working heel, but it's definitely early on and the first time on TV/PPV. Marty explodes from the get go causing Goldust to hit the floor and stumble around the ringside area/ramp. It's not the worst idea since it let's the crowd get a look at him without his wig/robe for the first time. Just when Dustin is about to turn around and rush back in Mary nails him with a clothesline which Dustin does his twisting bump for, onto the concrete. Jannetty rolls him in but he slinks right back out and sort of highsteps away. The body language wasn't quite down yet. He stalls around the ring as Jannetty does the chicken dance in the ring. Weird way to debut a character. They do a little chain wrestling, leading to a roll up by Goldust. After the kick out, he's ready with a huge punch. Jannetty comes back with a flurry of their own ending with a Frankensteiner. This keeps on for a bit, spirited stuff with some good strikes and back and forth. It culminates with a huge Dustin clothesline which Jannetty does an even larger flip sell for. Not how I would have started the match if I was debuting him, but it was good action nonetheless. Goldust's control segment is strong for the most part. His offense is well paced and a grounded chinlock works here because Jannetty is good at working from the bottom and keeping it interesting. One thing that's coming out from watching these (as well as endless babyface Dustin matches) is that he's very good at pacing and layering hope spots. At one point Jannetty looks like he's going to clothesline Goldust on the top rope from the apron but actually snapmares him outside instead, which is a crazy spot. The cutoff here is that (apparently signature) Jannetty kidney bump into the post. After a suplex in, Dustin goes back to the chinlock base. Again, at the time, I could see why people might not have liked this element of Dustin's work, but against the right opponent it's tried and true and effective to lead into hope spots. They flub a Jannetty flip over counter to a back body drop, but then he misses a splash into the corner and you'd swear his face goes right into the post. Goldust follows up with a DDT for a two count, but Jannetty comes back with a rocker dropper. Instead of going for the pin he goes for the fist drop off the top. Goldust moves. Jannetty lands on his feet and hits a fun elbow drop on a kneeling Dustin. Three fired up clotheslines later, Jannetty goes for the fist drop again, only to eat a foot. Goldust gives him the thumbs down and a goardbuster for the three. This was definitely good but way too competitive for a debut. Good match, wrong circumstance. Goldust vs Savio Vega series There are something like five matches between these two, so why the hell not. Goldust vs Savio - Raw 10/30/95 - Goldust TV Debut This is the Halloween show and Vince in prisoner garb is awesome. Like the PPV debut, It's all about the entrance. Awesomely, Dustin rushes in before the lights come on. He's working a methodological heel well early on, letting his shots sink in and mean something. He feeds right into an energetic early Savio comeback. Dustin hangs on to the ropes to avoid a dropkick and takes back over, tossing Savio into the ring post shoulder-first and then honing in on the arm/shoulder. The man has a nice looking clubber. I'm just saying. Also nice is bending the arm around the ringpost from the floor. His grounded top wristlock is more interesting than the chinlock bases I've been seeing. Savio comes back. Savio gets nailed in the arm and stumbles into a seated position in the corner. Dustin follows up with a great running knee to the arm in the corner. Goldust misses a charge into the corner and Savio comes back with three clotheslines, making sure to sell the bad arm, even when he's doing his little celebration stomp, which is a nice touch. Finally, Dustin ducks the spin wheel kick, which makes for a nasty bump, comes right back with a running kick to the shoulder, and finishes with an awesome hammerlock pin. This was really good, probably not as good as the longer Jannetty match but it made for a more effective debut. Goldust vs Savio Vega - Raw - April 15, 1996 The idea of Vince watching Duckman is a little surreal to me. They're killing time here to lead up to the Ultimate Warrior match at In Your House. Vega's sort of at the height of his push in WWF, feuding with Austin and what not. Dustin was really working in the fondling and what not here. It's both a bit more overt than what, let's say Adrian Street would do, with a bit more contact, but it's also less effective in general I think. Street was really good at using it to manipulate his opponent and the crowd and while Goldust generates heat with it, I don't see it work quite as well into the narrative of his matches. He's definitely getting heat in this match though, enraging Vega and then running away. It doesn't lead to Goldust taking advantage though. He eventually gets back into the ring and Savio just gets in some aggressive shine offense, which Dustin takes well but it sort of defeats the point of the mind games. Commercial break ends with Savio doing a corner ten count on Dustin. I really like his mannerisms here trying to avoid getting punched. He reverses it into a hot shot which I don't think I've ever seen before but it's a really great transition. To be fair to my point above, Lawler sells it as Vega not going to a pin somewhere in there when he had the chance because he was so mad at Dustin's earlier antics. I don't think the match itself shows that though. By this point Dustin had worked in the buttslam which gets a good reaction and gives him plenty of time for the histrionics. We go back (again) to the rear chinlock as a base, though it's seated this time which looks a little better. Dustin decides he's not getting enough heat so he punches Savio in the head and takes the house mic, insulting the crowd mid match and saying that he'd kiss each and every one of them. This leads directly into a hope segment which the crowd is, unsurprisingly, very into. Dustin cuts it off and starts slapping Savio repeatedly, which leads to another hope spot and kickout, followed by Dustin going up and getting crotched and then hit by a great superkick from mat to the top rope. Savio tries to follow up with a Superplex but Dustin cuts it off with a headbutt and then a kiss, only to dive right into a boot. The crowd is really into this. I had some problems with how the gimmick operated in the early part of the match, but it's being utilized to a huge degree during the heat segment and that I think is really effective. Savio really makes his comeback after the boot, with giant punch reversals and clotheslines an an atomic drop that could be felt in the back row. We come back from another commercial right into a ref bump. Marlena grabs for the belt and tosses it to Dustin as Savio tries to wake the ref. Tim White has come out to help the downed ref. They do a great job of drawing this out with Savio hitting two superkicks to avoid belt shots before finally picking it up and nailing Dustin with it right in front of White but not the still groggy Hebner, who turns around and counts the three. White immediately rolls in to try to explain what happened. The crowd is really excited but it's obvious the Dusty Finish is in effect. Monsoon comes out to throw out the match, to strip Goldust of the belt and to set up a rematch for the next week. Good match once it got going. Goldust vs Savio Vega - Raw - April 22, 1996 Again, this is a time killer, heat-wrangler, angle-extender, shine-giver to further Austin vs Savio and give Dustin something to do while he waits for Warrior at the PPV. It was also taped almost immediately after the last match as part of the third Raw taping of the night, so the crowd almost has to be sort of weird for it. They do some brawling to start followed by Goldust doing one of the best clothesline bumps I've ever seen him take. Dustin tries to take a powder and slow things down but Savio follows him right out, chops him and drags him back in. Dustin immediately hits the ropes. Savio puts his head down and Dustin slides right between his legs and hits the grounded upwards punch. Nice transition. Dustin having that punch (and its brother, the uppercut) in his arsenal means that he can take over believably at almost any point in a match. It's such a great move to cut off comebacks with too. Another thing I like about this pairing is Dustin's size advantage. It means he can do things like a corner splash that wouldn't make as much sense against Ahmed or Taker. He follows it up with a kiss to prime the fans for a tease of a Savio comeback comeback. He misses his second corner splash but gets in a perfectly timed low blow mule kick when Savio tries to capitalize. Clever wrestling. Dustin follows up the low blow by working on the leg. We get a hope spot reversal to lead us into a break but when the commercial ends, Dustin's back working on the leg, including a nice looking grapevine leglock and apron shot. Pretty good heat segment with Savio limping around the ring and Dustin picking his shots and cutting off hope spots by kicking at the leg. This all inexplicably leads into a seated rear chinlock, which Dustin does well and Savio sells well in and lets us have an inset Warrior promo but I don't get why they couldn't have used a leg submission here to accomplish the same thing. We do get a nice hope spot right after the promo ends, with Dustin trying to jump on the back and Savio turning quickly to get a knee up for the foul. It's Savio's bad leg so he sells it after the fact which is a good touch that lets Goldust take back over. Goldust hits a weird looking legdrop and then stalks outside, standing on the steps and holding Savio's legs with the pole between them. After taking too much time, Savio slams his head into the pole by pulling sharply with his legs which wakes the fans back up. Savio gets back to his feet in the ring, but Austin walks out, distracting him and letting Goldust do this great kick from the floor just under the bottom rope to take out Savio's leg. Goldust comes in and mounts the ten count but Savio shoves him off and hits a clothesline. He gets cut off on a splash when Goldust gets his legs up, bringing us to another break. We come back to Savio getting a two count on a small package but then eating the turnbuckle for his trouble. Goldust immediately goes for the curtain call, but Savio floats over (making sure to sell the leg on the landing; he's great at that) and hits a big spin kick, but only for a two count. Savio has a flurry, gets cut off after trying a back body drop but then reverses into a roll up. Marlena hops on the apron to distract the ref and Austin intervenes, nailing Vega with the million dollar belt. Goldust rolls over to get the three count and recover the belt. Really good match.

One thing I think they should do are exclusive events that aren't available on PPV (this is assuming that all the B shows will be available on PPV too and I'm not sure where that falls). There's no reason not to do a one night King of the Ring tournament in May that's exclusive to the Network for instance.

I haven't had time to listen to the new Wrestling Culture yet, but it looked like one of the talking points was about whether or not there weren't good Dustin matches from 96-97 that fell through the cracks. I'm working on a Dustin thing myself and that's a blind spot for me, so I'm going to run through a few quickly. There wasn't a general note for him so I'm making it. Goldust vs Ahmed Johnson KOTR 1996: I'm a little worried about Dustin filling up 15 minutes with Ahmed. This is for the IC belt and the issue, in part, was over Goldust giving Ahmed mouth to mouth the month before. First few minutes are well put together and all about Ahmed trying to kill Goldust and Dustin just surviving. He bumps well for him, rabbits around the ring and ringside area and eats offense while Ahmed plays out of control intense well, including a scary early match dive. Transition comes when Ahmed misses a splash in the corner and Dustin follows up with a stairs shot (which is what Ahmed tried to kill him with earlier). The base for Dustin's heat segment is a grounded rear chinlock which is never the most interesting thing but he keeps it sort of interesting with kidneywork (butt drops and nice looking rabbit punches) and his little taunts/flourishes that get the crowd on him. Ahmed is sort of made to have high intensity comeback spots that go wrong. Grounding Ahmed makes a lot of sense from a logic point of view but it's not super compelling. Dustin does a pretty clunky blocked sunset flip as part of a more elaborate hope spot which I think is, in part due to the combined size of the two. His cut off is an awesome punch and followed up by even more awesome punches and a decent enough pile driver, which is something I'm not sure I can remember seeing Dustin use. They keep half losing the crowd but Dustin draws them back in with the theatrics and fondling and what not. They do a great job of drawing out Ahmed's hope spots. The first was momentary, the second a bit more extended (and hopeful) and in the third he actually got to hit a lot of standing corner clotheslines before Dustin cut it off. He also hit a great Dibiase style fist drop, but that's a little beside the point. Then, with the next hope spot, which between Ahmed's late match selling and the WWE feel of "blocked punches = comeback," you think it's time, but Ahmed misses a big dropkick for the cutoff. Dustin's frustrated he can't put him away but he finally locks on a sleeper which is sort of the logical conclusion to all the earlier chinlocks. Dustin breaks it at two to slap and taunt Ahmed more setting up a mouth to mouth spot (which is something I just actually typed and actually the entire point of the match) and an Ahmed choke counter. Ahmed goes nuts in response and the fans momentarily go nuts with him. Huge spinebuster. Pearl River Plunge and the finish. Fans erupt at the pin and title change. There was a tiny bit of a lull in the middle but weirdly it all played into the underlying story and the finish so I won't fault it. This was obviously a wonky story but Dustin executed it extremely well. I think it's actually a testament to him that he was able to make it work so well. I imagine people hated this at the time but if you actually break down the mechanics of it, I'm not sure anyone could have executed it better. Bret Hart vs Goldust - Raw - January 22, 1996 After entrances and with three commercial breaks, this can't be more than six minutes. It's right after the Royal Rumble and is IC champion vs World champion. Bret's working a knee injury so this should be a good six minutes. Bret gives a clean break early. Goldust taunts in response. After the break Bret has him in a hammerlock but Goldust refuses to break clean and takes over with a nicely worked hammerlock of his own. Fans get behind Bret and he tosses Goldust out through the second rope. We have a SECOND commercial break and Goldust is back on top. Weirdly, he's working the arm despite Bret's damaged leg (which he's selling well, throughout). Finally Bret makes a comeback and Goldust finally tries to go for the leg but gets kicked out of the ring. He tries to take a powder and Razor stops him at the Gorilla Position and sends him back in. We get a THIRD commercial break and when we get back Bret's mid 5 Moves of Doom. He slaps on the sharpshooter and Goldust taps instantly. It's absolutely hilarious that we had three commercial breaks in a fifteen minute match, tops. What we actually got to see between the two of them was good, but come on. Also, really shoddy booking to give away this match, with a finish, where the IC champ got basically demolished by an injured world champion (and due to the cutting that's what it looked like certainly) on free TV. Goldust vs Undertaker - In Your House Mind Games (9/22/96) This has to be one of Dustin's highest profile WWF matches, no? It's no DQ and right after Taker lost Bearer and the urn so he's a little vulnerable. Dustin's good in the opening shine here. He bumps, sells, and stooges for Taker (his selling of Old School is especially good) with he and Marlena getting a lot of opportunistic shots in, only for Undertaker to rise up again and again. Undertaker has a really nice standing vertical suplex. It's a little weird to see him use a hip toss out of the corner though. I was looking forward to the transition since I was wondering how he'd manage it. It's well done visually. Goldust gets some kind of "gold dust" out of Marlena's purse while Undertaker is distracted by her (and by distracted i mean lifts her straight up) and tosses it into Taker's face. He plays blind well as Dustin swarms in and out. My favorite visual moment is Dustin standing on the apron as Taker turns around; he lifts up Taker's hair with one hand so it's not over his face and then punches him with the other. This is good stuff. Taker's able to create hope spots just by breaking content or alternatively, by using any contact to strike at Goldust or toss him around and then Dustin's able to do some subtle stalking to cut it off due to the blindness. His offense looks really good. Nothing flashy but everything gritty a lot of it right to the eyes, including a claw and a great bootscratch. The final hope spot is Taker rising up and choking while Dustin taunts and it pops the crowd. Pissed off Taker in the corner was pretty great in 96. We still get a cut off and a nearfall after a powerslam as we cycle into the finishing stretch. Taker ducks a clothesline and hits his flying one. Dustin fights back but eats a nice looking chokeslam off the top and then the tombstone. Definitely a good match though they really didn't use the stips, probably due to Shawn vs Mankind later in the night.

Cesaro vs Regal was really beautiful. Great match.

I always wondered about that. Where did you hear it?

You guys are no fun.

Cena Vs. Triple H, unfortunately. Setting up Wrestlemania 30 being potentially the most lack-luster (boring) card in a long time. Ok, where does Punk go then?

Obviously he needs to come in for a few month program managing AJ Styles against Jericho in a match that no one here would want to see.

So: Shawn or Bret?

There's a lot to parse there, but I don't think anyone's tired of the current WWE output when it comes to televised matches. I am occasionally frustrated due to lack of time and three or four long tag matches that I want to watch a week while I'm watching everything else, but is there any real criticism against the matches right now? I think the most I see is "Well, it's pretty obvious that Cody really isn't as good as Dustin."

Secretly I would say Bray Wyatt leading into a brainwashed Jericho character that could be kind of fun as a skeezy 80's metal, gothic character. I would say more likely would be one of the Shield members if he is a face or someone like Big E if he comes back as a heel. I kind of liked Jericho NXT promo setting up his match with Bray. I actually think he could even be a last resort Bryan opponent.

Sorry, that was a typo. Yeah, Bryan/Punk. I just still can't figure out where Cena goes; maybe with Orton and Batista for the title.

I just can't see Michaels wrestling a singles match when there's a tag match right there in HHH/HBK vs Punk/Cena.

That ship has sailed. Better to put Reigns over him if you want to go that route.

There are some pieces that don't fit. If you run Orton vs Batista and Undertaker vs Brock then where does Cena go, for instance?

Harper is really good at knowing when to give and when not to and when to sell while being dominant. If you sell a gut punch for a second, acknowledge that it has impact, and then fight back despite the fact that the fans obviously realize that it hurts you, that means a hell of a lot more than if you no-sell it.

I was watching a Mike Masters vs King Parsons match from 1981 Portland just now and it's amazing how much I would have disliked it in 2002 and how much I liked it now. It was my first time seeing Masters and I thought he worked his muscleman gimmick very well both in the sort of offense he used and in his playing to the crowd. It was Masters' first time in front of the crowd and he really got over his gimmick well. It was mainly armwork based and they moved in and out of it well. Parsons' selling was mostly good. When he shrugs off the armwork during a hope spot, he REALLY shrugs it off instead of just ignoring it and by doing so he pops the crowd. There were some paralleled spots I liked including Full Nelson escapes. Parsons definitely has a charisma that I never gave him credit for before. And yeah, Masters did take one nice bump to the outside, but what was nice about it wasn't even the bump itself, but how it played into the early feeling out process at the start of the match. It wasn't a great match or anything but it was definitely good. And it wasn't a workrate match at all. I would have been bored stiff in 02. My point is that people's opinions can change and develop over time and it's silly to think that just because we (as individuals or a group) were crazy over something in 2002 doesn't mean we can't come to feel differently about it later.

Is there a single person in the note who doesn't realize why the era was so lionized at the time though?

It's that the Smackdown Six era is a holy, sacred thing and the matches therein cannot be argued against years after the fact without you being either anti-meltzerianor a reactionary smark who just wants to cause a stir because of how bad things were in 1999 and because it was almost universally loved at the time. Or something.

Shawn Michaels: proof positive that great matches do not necessarily make a wrestler great. Looking forward to listening to this though it's deep in the queue right now.

Sometimes having too much talent means you never have to learn to wrestle smartly.

The thing I hated the most about his first few years in the WWF was that he'd never actually mat wrestle for any length of time. At least it bothered me a lot at the time.

Ah if only there was a wish list where I could put the Lawler set.

How are the youngest generation of Mendozas?

They should treat him like Cena at Mania XX. Put him over Ambrose for the mid level title and groom him to win at Mania the next year.